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RE:Mike Vick case

 
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RE:Mike Vick case - 11/1/2007 6:35:00 PM   
Lynn G.


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The media in New Jersey must be pretty bad. Blackwater has been pretty well covered here in the Twin Cities. Michael Vick hasn't been mentioned in three months.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 11/2/2007 5:26:05 AM   
thebigo


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[quote="John Childress"][quote="thebigo"][quote="John Childress"]You are really reaching on that one. Those players knowingly took steroids in direct violation of their contracts. What they did is WORSE than Vick because it directly affects the integrity of the game. Again, no consistency[/quote] This you know, how? Because you say so?[/quote]ummm, because they FAIL their steroid tests! duh[/quote] No, that means they they FAILed their steroid tests. It does not necessarily follow that they "knowingly took steroids". Sigh.
Post #: 502
RE:Mike Vick case - 11/2/2007 5:58:31 AM   
thebigo


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[quote="John Childress"]What is the standard for taking someone's back pay? That they knowingly violated the rules of the NFL when signing the contract and/or when peforming in those back years? If that is the standard then a lot of guys need to pay money back, not just Vick. This society gets sick in its prosecution of some individuals, usually Black men, while others get off relatively free. Look at the 10 year hatred of OJ. Do you see anywhere near that level of hatred for Robert Blake who also may have killed his wife and got off? Where is the prosecution and hatred for Blackwater - killers of scores of innocent women and children? You can have 6 months of coverage over dog killings and just a brief mention of men who gun down unarmed civilians? the hypocrisy laced with double standards is mind blowing.[/quote] And the worst part is it's black men like Gene Upshaw, more generally pretty much any black man with a modicum of power, perpetrating these wrongs on their own race.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 11/2/2007 8:33:21 PM   
John Childress


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[quote="thebigo"][quote="John Childress"]What is the standard for taking someone's back pay? That they knowingly violated the rules of the NFL when signing the contract and/or when peforming in those back years? If that is the standard then a lot of guys need to pay money back, not just Vick. This society gets sick in its prosecution of some individuals, usually Black men, while others get off relatively free. Look at the 10 year hatred of OJ. Do you see anywhere near that level of hatred for Robert Blake who also may have killed his wife and got off? Where is the prosecution and hatred for Blackwater - killers of scores of innocent women and children? You can have 6 months of coverage over dog killings and just a brief mention of men who gun down unarmed civilians? the hypocrisy laced with double standards is mind blowing.[/quote] And the worst part is it's black men like Gene Upshaw, more generally pretty much any black man with a modicum of power, perpetrating these wrongs on their own race.[/quote] Gene doesn't perpetrate wrongs on Blacks, he does it on all football players regardless of race. You also overgeneralize as most Black leaders, like any other race, are good. The problem is the media, which is NOT controlled by Blacks, keeps pimping people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as if they speak for most Blacks when they don't and haven't for years. Their failure to admonish Blacks when they do wrong is very similar to the Rush Limpbaughs of the world who see anyone not right wing as a commie. Now if you want to talk about crime in general in terms of wrongs you have a point. Most Blacks who are victims of crime these days are attacked by other Blacks. But then you have to take into account the White dominated government and business industry that not only allows this to happen but promotes it. This is well documented with the introducting of crack cocaine in the ghettos and includes the incredibly disproportionate prison terms for crack (originally used mostly by Blacks) versus powder cocaine (usually used by affluent Whites). I can write all day on this subject but there is no need. The original post is accurate on its own accord. The White controlled media loves to take a Vick or OJ and hold them us as all that is wrong and run with it for years whereas Whites who commit similar atrocities are quickly forgotten.
Post #: 504
RE:Mike Vick case - 11/20/2007 12:31:26 AM   
Todd M

 

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RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick surrendered to U.S. marshals Monday and will remain in jail until his sentencing on a dogfighting charge in three weeks. The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to be sentenced Dec. 10 on the federal dogfighting conspiracy charge, but he turned himself in because he was anticipating a prison term, according to a court document. Vick could be sentenced to up to five years in prison. "From the beginning, Mr. Vick has accepted responsibility for his actions, and his self-surrender further demonstrates that acceptance," Billy Martin, one of Vick's lawyers, said in a statement. "Michael wants to again apologize to everyone who has been hurt in this matter, and he thanks all of the people who have offered him and his family prayers and support during this time." Vick is being held at Northern Neck Regional Jail in Warsaw until his sentencing, U.S. marshals told The Associated Press. The mixed-gender facility houses about 450 inmates. The order filed in U.S. District Court said that "Vick has indicated his desire to voluntarily enter custody prior to his sentencing hearing. It appearing appropriate to do so, the U.S. Marshal is ordered to take custody of the Defendant immediately upon his surrender." The order added that Vick was taken into custody "based solely on his desire to begin his period of incarceration prior to his sentencing hearing and not because of violation of any condition of his bond." In an e-mail sent to the AP, the U.S. attorney's office confirmed Vick's surrender but declined further comment. Vick's decision to begin serving time before sentencing was approved by the judge and by Vick's lawyers. Ronald Bacigal, a University of Richmond law professor who specializes in criminal law and criminal procedure, said there are no real direct legal benefits to Vick's decision to turn himself in before sentencing. "I don't think there's any benefits except getting [the sentence] started," Bacigal said. "I would think he's purely thinking about timing as far as when he can get back to his football." Vick also could be trying to show the judge he has accepted responsibility for his actions in hopes of a lighter sentence, Bacigal said. "One of the things the judge is liable to consider is admitting fault," Bacigal said. Whether that will work is anyone's guess. "It's kind of like reading tea leaves knowing what's the exact impact on the judge," Bacigal said. The federal dogfighting case began in late April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the property Vick owns in Surry County and seized dozens of dogs, most of them pit bulls, and equipment associated with dogfighting. It's there that the dogfighting enterprise known as Bad Newz Kennels operated since 2001 on 15 acres of land Vick owned. Vick initially denied any knowledge of the enterprise, then pledged after he was charged that he would fight to clear his name. After his three co-defendants pleaded guilty, Vick followed suit. The gruesome details outlined in the federal indictment -- dogs were hanged, drowned and electrocuted -- fueled a public backlash against the Falcons star and cost him several lucrative endorsement deals, even before he agreed to plead guilty to the dogfighting conspiracy charge. In his written plea, Vick admitted helping kill six to eight pit bulls and supplying money for gambling on the fights. He said he did not personally place any bets or share in any winnings, but merely associating with gambling can result in a lifetime ban under the NFL's personal-conduct policy. Vick and his co-defendants also face state felony dogfighting charges. Vick has been charged with two state felony counts -- beating or killing or causing dogs to fight other dogs and engaging in or promoting dogfighting. Each felony is punishable by up to five years in prison. Suspended indefinitely by the NFL without pay, Vick was unable to stay out of trouble. He tested positive in September for marijuana, a violation of U.S. District Court Judge Henry Hudson's order that he stay clean in exchange for being allowed to be free. After that positive test, Hudson ordered Vick confined to his home address between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., with electronic monitoring and random drug testing. "From the beginning, Mr. Vick has accepted responsibility for his actions, and his self-surrender further demonstrates that acceptance," Billy Martin, one of Vick's lawyers, said in a statement. Start with a lie end with a lie. Umm from the beginnng he "was never there". Anyway, pretty much the end of it for me. Hopefully this is the beginnng of a long stretch in jail. When they tack on some state charges hopefully it gets it to around 5 years.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 11/20/2007 3:13:04 AM   
Lynn G.


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Todd, The sentence that you highlighted at the end was exactly the one that stood out to me. Vick vehemently denied it at the beginning, and tried to feign ignorance of the whole matter. The lawyer should have known better than to make a stupid statement like that. He should have said, "Once the evidence began to appear overwhelming, my client recanted his earlier plea and decided to fess up."
Post #: 506
RE:Mike Vick case - 11/20/2007 7:32:03 PM   
John Childress


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But he is showing he is contrite by reporting early! (that was sarcasm folks)
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/6/2007 2:32:01 AM   
thebigo


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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140049 :whistling:
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/6/2007 4:11:10 AM   
Steven JL

 

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Sentence comes down in next couple days but looks as if he would be out of jail in time for 2009 training camp but completely unavailable for the 2008 season. The question then is if the NFL imposes it's own punishment. I'm heavily betting they do. He'll have full opportunity to play in 2010 if he behaves, possibly even some in 2009 if the NFL makes the suspension concurrent with the prison (unlikely, IMO).
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/6/2007 5:48:01 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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I heard a legal analyst saying it was a huge blow that the other 2 guys got the full sentence and not something lighter.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/6/2007 5:54:32 PM   
Todd M

 

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I think a sentence of 3 years on Monday is fair. Add another 3 years for the state charges (~1.5 served) and we can rightfully stick a fork in Vick's NFL career.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/6/2007 6:07:57 PM   
Guest
[quote="Steven JL"]Sentence comes down in next couple days but looks as if he would be out of jail in time for 2009 training camp but completely unavailable for the 2008 season. The question then is if the NFL imposes it's own punishment. I'm heavily betting they do. He'll have full opportunity to play in 2010 if he behaves, possibly even some in 2009 if the NFL makes the suspension concurrent with the prison (unlikely, IMO).[/quote] **************************************************** Then all he has to do is learn how to play QB.
  Post #: 512
RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 2:28:56 AM   
thebigo


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[quote="Steven JL"]Sentence comes down in next couple days but looks as if he would be out of jail in time for 2009 training camp but completely unavailable for the 2008 season. The question then is if the NFL imposes it's own punishment. I'm heavily betting they do. He'll have full opportunity to play in 2010 if he behaves, possibly even some in 2009 if the NFL makes the suspension concurrent with the prison (unlikely, IMO).[/quote] I was going to say who is going to sign him, it's a PR nightmare. But then there is always the Conboys. I think his NFL career is done. Even if he was available to play today. PETA (and other less extreme animal rights types) will crucify any team that entertains the idea.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 2:51:38 AM   
Steven JL

 

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[quote="thebigo"][quote="Steven JL"]Sentence comes down in next couple days but looks as if he would be out of jail in time for 2009 training camp but completely unavailable for the 2008 season. The question then is if the NFL imposes it's own punishment. I'm heavily betting they do. He'll have full opportunity to play in 2010 if he behaves, possibly even some in 2009 if the NFL makes the suspension concurrent with the prison (unlikely, IMO).[/quote] I was going to say who is going to sign him, it's a PR nightmare. But then there is always the Conboys. I think his NFL career is done. Even if he was available to play today. PETA (and other less extreme animal rights types) will crucify any team that entertains the idea.[/quote] I used to think this too but we are such a forgiving nation. Nothing a tear-filled visit to the Oprah couch talking about his childhood and growing up thinking this was OK and how devastated he was to learn of the brutality... I think the odds of someone in 2010 (especially he makes public contritions) giving him a chance is 70/30. I think the bigger issue is someone wanting him at QB. That seems less likely but he may get some offers as a RB/QB type.
Post #: 514
RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 4:58:56 AM   
Todd M

 

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I used to think this too but we are such a forgiving nation. Nothing a tear-filled visit to the Oprah couch talking about his childhood and growing up thinking this was OK and how devastated he was to learn of the brutality... It can't play out like that. He can be sorry for what he did and any (nation) person is free to forgive him. Personally, I don't think I could. But to play that card is emotionally disingenuous. If someone's first emotional reaction to animal brutality is after being punished and informed that it's "not a good thing" to chop up puppies and put kitties in the microwave {or insert any of Vick's animal abuse} for amusement then that person is a psychopath. Psychopaths need to be removed from society. But unfortunately all is needed is to find God and to shed a tear. Perhaps people can be "saved"/helped when they are beginning to show signs of psychotic behavior but once one fully engages in it I wish sometimes we would embrace our animal nature more in the sense where we stopped coddling the weak. *I know it's not very PC but I would just as soon have him dead then to have him be given all his freedoms back based on being sorry that he got his hand caught in a cookie jar. Now, if he was willing to work hard, I mean really hard in working off his crime against life and nature by donating his time and money to help animals/educate youth about the wrongs of animal cruelty and not just attempting to retain glory then I likely would be able to find forgiveness. But as it is he will serve his time and likely will make some speeches in the tone of Steven's post and do the minimum amount of public service to try and savage his image and not enough effort will be made to get more of this ugliness stopped. *Tough to know how that will read. Most people probably wouldn't want me with any real power in this world. I would snuff people out L/R and C. :twisted: Like the little girl from the first Simpson’s episode said "If you want peace - prepare for war" or as I like to interpret it...sometimes you have to kill in order to protect life. Stepping back from the edge a little bit I will offer that my focus would be on controlling the amount of new life that is being over run on this planet. I would promote massive spay and neuter clinics and provide money and education to youths and under privileged people for family planning.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 5:31:34 AM   
Guest
I hate that I have to preface this with, I do not like what Vick did, but I'm wondering Todd, if you are a vegan?
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 5:42:24 AM   
Todd M

 

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IMO vegan's are too far too the left. Hard to be against using milk and eggs etc. Yes Pete I eat meat. I have stated on this board and the Strib board that I have a conscious about it. My preferred state of being would be able to sustain my life functions without having to have an animal killed while fooling my brain that I am actually satisfied.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 5:44:40 AM   
Todd M

 

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[quote="Pete C"]I hate that I have to preface this with, I do not like what Vick did, but I'm wondering Todd, if you are a vegan?[/quote] I don't think the preface was needed.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 5:46:29 AM   
John Childress


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[quote="Jeff Jesser"]I heard a legal analyst saying it was a huge blow that the other 2 guys got the full sentence and not something lighter.[/quote] Good You shouldn't get a lesser sentence for being a rat. They let Leonard "the mother killer" Little back in the NFL. Surely they can let a dog killer back in. Or are people so sick that they value the lives of some vicious animals over a mother?
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 5:50:09 AM   
Todd M

 

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I would still have Leonard Little in a jail cell so I know you're not talking about me.
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RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 5:55:31 AM   
Guest
[quote="Todd Mallett"]IMO vegan's are too far too the left. Hard to be against using milk and eggs etc. Yes Pete I eat meat. I have stated on this board and the Strib board that I have a conscious about it. My preferred state of being would be able to sustain my life functions without having to have an animal killed while fooling my brain that I am actually satisfied.[/quote] **************************************************** It's not personal, Todd, I just don't understand. Having a conscious about eating animals somehow makes it okay? Feeling guilty about your birthday dinner somehow makes you a better person? You would rather have Vick dead? You value certain animals lives above human lives? But you don't include the animals that you digest? If someone held a gun to my head and said either one human dies or one thousand dogs die, I'm picking the dogs.
  Post #: 521
RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 6:07:02 AM   
thebigo


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[quote="Pete C"][quote="Todd Mallett"]IMO vegan's are too far too the left. Hard to be against using milk and eggs etc. Yes Pete I eat meat. I have stated on this board and the Strib board that I have a conscious about it. My preferred state of being would be able to sustain my life functions without having to have an animal killed while fooling my brain that I am actually satisfied.[/quote] **************************************************** It's not personal, Todd, I just don't understand. Having a conscious about eating animals somehow makes it okay? Feeling guilty about your birthday dinner somehow makes you a better person? You would rather have Vick dead? You value certain animals lives above human lives? But you don't include the animals that you digest? If someone held a gun to my head and said either one human dies or one thousand dogs die, I'm picking the dogs.[/quote] Let's drop the comparisons of cultivating animal protein for human consumption to Vick's sadistic behavior.
Post #: 522
RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 6:07:56 AM   
Todd M

 

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[quote="Pete C"][quote="Todd Mallett"]IMO vegan's are too far too the left. Hard to be against using milk and eggs etc. Yes Pete I eat meat. I have stated on this board and the Strib board that I have a conscious about it. My preferred state of being would be able to sustain my life functions without having to have an animal killed while fooling my brain that I am actually satisfied.[/quote] **************************************************** It's not personal, Todd, I just don't understand. Having a conscious about eating animals somehow makes it okay? Feeling guilty about your birthday dinner somehow makes you a better person? You would rather have Vick dead? You value certain animals lives above human lives? But you don't include the animals that you digest? If someone held a gun to my head and said either one human dies or one thousand dogs die, I'm picking the dogs.[/quote] (having internet problems) I don't sit and cry over every meal I eat man. I'm readying myself for a time in my life where I hope to separate myself from eating animals. To what degree I ever achieve this is still to be determined. And saying I would rather have Vick dead was not a blanket statement so I don't feel it's fair for you to use it the way you did. If someone held a gun to my head with the same proposition I would risk my life trying to stop the scenario. If escaping wasn't an option I would take the bullet. Unless I got to choose the person, if it was random I would take the bullet.
Post #: 523
RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 6:10:05 AM   
Guest
[quote="thebigo"][quote="Pete C"][quote="Todd Mallett"]IMO vegan's are too far too the left. Hard to be against using milk and eggs etc. Yes Pete I eat meat. I have stated on this board and the Strib board that I have a conscious about it. My preferred state of being would be able to sustain my life functions without having to have an animal killed while fooling my brain that I am actually satisfied.[/quote] **************************************************** It's not personal, Todd, I just don't understand. Having a conscious about eating animals somehow makes it okay? Feeling guilty about your birthday dinner somehow makes you a better person? You would rather have Vick dead? You value certain animals lives above human lives? But you don't include the animals that you digest? If someone held a gun to my head and said either one human dies or one thousand dogs die, I'm picking the dogs.[/quote] Let's drop the comparisons of cultivating animal protein for human consumption to Vick's sadistic behavior.[/quote] ****************************************** Feel free to not comment on it.
  Post #: 524
RE:Mike Vick case - 12/7/2007 6:11:28 AM   
Guest
[quote="Todd Mallett"][quote="Pete C"][quote="Todd Mallett"]IMO vegan's are too far too the left. Hard to be against using milk and eggs etc. Yes Pete I eat meat. I have stated on this board and the Strib board that I have a conscious about it. My preferred state of being would be able to sustain my life functions without having to have an animal killed while fooling my brain that I am actually satisfied.[/quote] **************************************************** It's not personal, Todd, I just don't understand. Having a conscious about eating animals somehow makes it okay? Feeling guilty about your birthday dinner somehow makes you a better person? You would rather have Vick dead? You value certain animals lives above human lives? But you don't include the animals that you digest? If someone held a gun to my head and said either one human dies or one thousand dogs die, I'm picking the dogs.[/quote] (having internet problems) I don't sit and cry over every meal I eat man. I'm readying myself for a time in my life where I hope to separate myself from eating animals. To what degree I ever achieve this is still to be determined. And saying I would rather have Vick dead was not a blanket statement so I don't feel it's fair for you to use it the way you did. If someone held a gun to my head with the same proposition I would risk my life trying to stop the scenario. If escaping wasn't an option I would take the bullet. Unless I got to choose the person, if it was random I would take the bullet.[/quote] ******************************************************* I'm gonna' back off on this. If you'd really be willing to take the bullet instead of 1000 dogs, I'm giving you the benefit of doubt.
  Post #: 525
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