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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 4:18:17 PM

Dave Odle

Posts: 8376
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline

That's why I make comparisons to Vick. Similar size, electric play, and just wins.

It's hard to say what Vick would have become if it hadn't been for the dogfighting scandal.

Edit: Brad mentioned Derek Carr earlier. I pay careful attention to QB's whose teams have not been very good until they take the helm. Fresno State wasn't squat for years. Carr's play has vaulted them into top twenty rankings. Manziel, the same way. A&M never had a QB who simply took over a game and now that they have it, they can beat almost anyone. Tannehill was an okay QB, but he still had limitations.

Who wouldn't want a player where everybody holds their breath when they get the ball in their hands?

< Message edited by Dave Odle -- 11/9/2013 4:22:10 PM >

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Post #: 576

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 5:48:57 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

That's why I make comparisons to Vick. Similar size, electric play, and just wins.

It's hard to say what Vick would have become if it hadn't been for the dogfighting scandal.

Edit: Brad mentioned Derek Carr earlier. I pay careful attention to QB's whose teams have not been very good until they take the helm. Fresno State wasn't squat for years. Carr's play has vaulted them into top twenty rankings. Manziel, the same way. A&M never had a QB who simply took over a game and now that they have it, they can beat almost anyone. Tannehill was an okay QB, but he still had limitations.

Who wouldn't want a player where everybody holds their breath when they get the ball in their hands?

Depends on the expectations.

Post #: 577

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 8:09:19 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12164
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nordic Don

Mariota will not be coming out this year after that performance tonight.

I gotta say, the more I've watched these QB, the less I've been impressed.

Even Bridgewater, I thougth he was very average against a mediocre (at best) Kentucky team.

I would guess no is even close to Luck/RGIII level.

None of these guys coming out will project as well as Luck or RG3 did, but after next season, I think Winston will be regarded as highly as Luck and RG3.

Plenty of things will change on the QB's before draft day. Some will get over hyped because of a good performance in a Bowl Game (Vince Young) and some will rise up the ranks after the Senior Bowl and Combine.

I expect Renner and Murray to be mentioned a lot more as we get closer to draft day. Also, Carr, as Brad mentioned, could be climbing up draft boards after the Combine.

I fully expect Manziel to drop, but probably not as much as he should. I seriously doubt he measures in at any more than 5' 11".
He will be a interception machine in the NFL. Having one of the best, tallest, athletic WR's in the Nation has bailed him out dozens of time this season. IMO, Manziel should be a 3rd or 4th round selection, but, much like Tebow, he will go a round or two too early and be a huge disappointment.

Manziel will be a steal for someone, just like Russell Wilson was.

Post #: 578

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 8:11:53 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nordic Don

Mariota will not be coming out this year after that performance tonight.

I gotta say, the more I've watched these QB, the less I've been impressed.

Even Bridgewater, I thougth he was very average against a mediocre (at best) Kentucky team.

I would guess no is even close to Luck/RGIII level.

None of these guys coming out will project as well as Luck or RG3 did, but after next season, I think Winston will be regarded as highly as Luck and RG3.

Plenty of things will change on the QB's before draft day. Some will get over hyped because of a good performance in a Bowl Game (Vince Young) and some will rise up the ranks after the Senior Bowl and Combine.

I expect Renner and Murray to be mentioned a lot more as we get closer to draft day. Also, Carr, as Brad mentioned, could be climbing up draft boards after the Combine.

I fully expect Manziel to drop, but probably not as much as he should. I seriously doubt he measures in at any more than 5' 11".
He will be a interception machine in the NFL. Having one of the best, tallest, athletic WR's in the Nation has bailed him out dozens of time this season. IMO, Manziel should be a 3rd or 4th round selection, but, much like Tebow, he will go a round or two too early and be a huge disappointment.

Manziel will be a steal for someone, just like Russell Wilson was.

I agree.

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Post #: 579

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 11:24:59 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nordic Don

Mariota will not be coming out this year after that performance tonight.

I gotta say, the more I've watched these QB, the less I've been impressed.

Even Bridgewater, I thougth he was very average against a mediocre (at best) Kentucky team.

I would guess no is even close to Luck/RGIII level.

None of these guys coming out will project as well as Luck or RG3 did, but after next season, I think Winston will be regarded as highly as Luck and RG3.

Plenty of things will change on the QB's before draft day. Some will get over hyped because of a good performance in a Bowl Game (Vince Young) and some will rise up the ranks after the Senior Bowl and Combine.

I expect Renner and Murray to be mentioned a lot more as we get closer to draft day. Also, Carr, as Brad mentioned, could be climbing up draft boards after the Combine.

I fully expect Manziel to drop, but probably not as much as he should. I seriously doubt he measures in at any more than 5' 11".
He will be a interception machine in the NFL. Having one of the best, tallest, athletic WR's in the Nation has bailed him out dozens of time this season. IMO, Manziel should be a 3rd or 4th round selection, but, much like Tebow, he will go a round or two too early and be a huge disappointment.

Manziel will be a steal for someone, just like Russell Wilson was.

But is he a steal at #6-9 in the first round when the purple picks?

I so much hate even saying this, but Manziel does stand in the pocket and deliver, when he's not doing a Fran Tarkenton spin out of the pocket.

On 8 consecutive passes his receivers didn't have to adjust to the ball once. I'm not sure Ponder has ever gone 3 passes without making someone catch it off there ankles.

Not sure he can hold up to the pounding in the NFL, but he may be the only viable option where we may end up on draft day.

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I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 580

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 11:28:36 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12164
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nordic Don

Mariota will not be coming out this year after that performance tonight.

I gotta say, the more I've watched these QB, the less I've been impressed.

Even Bridgewater, I thougth he was very average against a mediocre (at best) Kentucky team.

I would guess no is even close to Luck/RGIII level.

None of these guys coming out will project as well as Luck or RG3 did, but after next season, I think Winston will be regarded as highly as Luck and RG3.

Plenty of things will change on the QB's before draft day. Some will get over hyped because of a good performance in a Bowl Game (Vince Young) and some will rise up the ranks after the Senior Bowl and Combine.

I expect Renner and Murray to be mentioned a lot more as we get closer to draft day. Also, Carr, as Brad mentioned, could be climbing up draft boards after the Combine.

I fully expect Manziel to drop, but probably not as much as he should. I seriously doubt he measures in at any more than 5' 11".
He will be a interception machine in the NFL. Having one of the best, tallest, athletic WR's in the Nation has bailed him out dozens of time this season. IMO, Manziel should be a 3rd or 4th round selection, but, much like Tebow, he will go a round or two too early and be a huge disappointment.

Manziel will be a steal for someone, just like Russell Wilson was.

But is he a steal at #6-9 in the first round when the purple picks?

I so much hate even saying this, but Manziel does stand in the pocket and deliver, when he's not doing a Fran Tarkenton spin out of the pocket.

On 8 consecutive passes his receivers didn't have to adjust to the ball once. I'm not sure Ponder has ever gone 3 passes without making someone catch it off there ankles.

Not sure he can hold up to the pounding in the NFL, but he may be the only viable option where we may end up on draft day.

A steal because he might be the 3rd or 4th QB taken and could be the best.

We need to get with the times and take a 'pistol offense' type guy.

Post #: 581

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 11:44:06 PM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nordic Don

Mariota will not be coming out this year after that performance tonight.

I gotta say, the more I've watched these QB, the less I've been impressed.

Even Bridgewater, I thougth he was very average against a mediocre (at best) Kentucky team.

I would guess no is even close to Luck/RGIII level.

None of these guys coming out will project as well as Luck or RG3 did, but after next season, I think Winston will be regarded as highly as Luck and RG3.

Plenty of things will change on the QB's before draft day. Some will get over hyped because of a good performance in a Bowl Game (Vince Young) and some will rise up the ranks after the Senior Bowl and Combine.

I expect Renner and Murray to be mentioned a lot more as we get closer to draft day. Also, Carr, as Brad mentioned, could be climbing up draft boards after the Combine.

I fully expect Manziel to drop, but probably not as much as he should. I seriously doubt he measures in at any more than 5' 11".
He will be a interception machine in the NFL. Having one of the best, tallest, athletic WR's in the Nation has bailed him out dozens of time this season. IMO, Manziel should be a 3rd or 4th round selection, but, much like Tebow, he will go a round or two too early and be a huge disappointment.

Manziel will be a steal for someone, just like Russell Wilson was.

But is he a steal at #6-9 in the first round when the purple picks?

I so much hate even saying this, but Manziel does stand in the pocket and deliver, when he's not doing a Fran Tarkenton spin out of the pocket.

On 8 consecutive passes his receivers didn't have to adjust to the ball once. I'm not sure Ponder has ever gone 3 passes without making someone catch it off there ankles.

Not sure he can hold up to the pounding in the NFL, but he may be the only viable option where we may end up on draft day.

If all we are looking for is a QB better than Ponder, we can find that in the 4th and 5th. Hell, Florida State alone has had 3 better QB's since Ponder.

There are some things I like about Manziel. I really like that he improved his arm strength from last season. I love his confidence and leadership. It's crystal clear that he loves the game.

Way too many negative plays. Too undisciplined for most NFL coaches. Too many launch and pray passes to Evans. The delivery is still slow. Improved arm strength (from last season) but still has to really wind it up to throw deep. Holds the ball down low with one hand way too often. And his diminutive stature is definitely not a plus. He's a great college QB. His skill set doesn't translate to the NFL.

Post #: 582

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2013 11:44:07 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nordic Don

Mariota will not be coming out this year after that performance tonight.

I gotta say, the more I've watched these QB, the less I've been impressed.

Even Bridgewater, I thougth he was very average against a mediocre (at best) Kentucky team.

I would guess no is even close to Luck/RGIII level.

None of these guys coming out will project as well as Luck or RG3 did, but after next season, I think Winston will be regarded as highly as Luck and RG3.

Plenty of things will change on the QB's before draft day. Some will get over hyped because of a good performance in a Bowl Game (Vince Young) and some will rise up the ranks after the Senior Bowl and Combine.

I expect Renner and Murray to be mentioned a lot more as we get closer to draft day. Also, Carr, as Brad mentioned, could be climbing up draft boards after the Combine.

I fully expect Manziel to drop, but probably not as much as he should. I seriously doubt he measures in at any more than 5' 11".
He will be a interception machine in the NFL. Having one of the best, tallest, athletic WR's in the Nation has bailed him out dozens of time this season. IMO, Manziel should be a 3rd or 4th round selection, but, much like Tebow, he will go a round or two too early and be a huge disappointment.

Manziel will be a steal for someone, just like Russell Wilson was.

But is he a steal at #6-9 in the first round when the purple picks?

I so much hate even saying this, but Manziel does stand in the pocket and deliver, when he's not doing a Fran Tarkenton spin out of the pocket.

On 8 consecutive passes his receivers didn't have to adjust to the ball once. I'm not sure Ponder has ever gone 3 passes without making someone catch it off there ankles.

Not sure he can hold up to the pounding in the NFL, but he may be the only viable option where we may end up on draft day.

A steal because he might be the 3rd or 4th QB taken and could be the best.

We need to get with the times and take a 'pistol offense' type guy.

As recent as last week I probably wouldn't have agreed with you, but with our position which will not be top 2 (Not getting Bridgewater, or Mariota) I would now agree that Manziel may be our best chance for a true gamer that has the "it" factor.

Much better arm then I thought last year.... Much better.... He still will throw the dumb INT however.

_____________________________

I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 583

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2013 12:37:57 AM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
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I think Manziel would be a steal with the number ONE pick !

Even with a bad defense and little to no running game, his team continues to put up 50 points. He put up 40 points in their only 2 losses.

I saw Manziel complete 11 passes in a row yesterday, then he threw a dumb INT near the end zone. He came back on the next drive, stood in the pocket, and delivered a 40 yard pass with ease, a guy off the bench hauls it in for a TD.

Manziel attacks a defense in so many ways, it's incredible. He seems to glance at the snap at how many rushers are coming, and adjusts his pocket (or out of pocket) movement accordingly. He hits WRs in so many different parts of the field, and usually hits them in stride, very few dropped balls, even by the more obscure WRs. What really impresses me on 3rd down, is like Favre, he REALLY makes a strong attempt to get the 1st down, even when it's 3rd and 18. Sometimes he fires a rocket, sometimes he buys time and just finds a guy that is wide open, or sometimes he lays it into a place where only the WR is likely to get it, almost impossible to defend.

Too many launch and pray passes to Evans

I've watched four of his games this year, and it does seem like every game had about 2 jump balls to Evans (sort of like Stafford to Megatron in Detroit), but I really didn't see that at all last year.

What's interesting about that is, I just heard a few days ago on a national radio show, one of the commentators was saying that Evans should be considered for the Heisman, and he sounded serious. I don't know what his numbers are, but that seems a little silly when you have Winston, Bridgewater and Manziel battling it out for that. Where would Evans fall in the draft ? Maybe the Vikes should draft him in like the 3rd or 4th round, after getting Manziel in the 1st ?

< Message edited by marty -- 11/10/2013 12:38:57 AM >

Post #: 584

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2013 8:18:21 AM

Duane Sampson

Posts: 14200
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Manziel would be a steal with the number ONE pick !

Is Manziel converting to WR?

Sorry Martini, just jabbing ya on a slow weekend...

Post #: 585

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2013 12:34:54 PM

69in09

Posts: 8480
Joined: 1/13/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

Too many launch and pray passes to Evans

Do they work?

Does the result get his team closer to winning the game or further? Does he throw them on 1st and 2nd down? or on 3rd or 4th, when you have to make a play?

IMO; this is one of Ponders seemingly unfixable deficits, he doesn't know how to get the ball to his playmakers. No sense of when to take chances, both by down and distance and the situation in the game.

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Post #: 586

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2013 1:25:37 PM 1 votes

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

I am not impressed at all with Bama's QB. That is why the Vikings will probably end up with him.

I really want Johnny Football.

Post #: 587

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2013 1:39:22 PM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Not only do the high passes to Evans work, Manziel was NOT reliant on them last year, at least in the games and highlights I saw. It's just one of the false claims made by JT.

Good points on Ponder as well, 69.

I hope the Football Gods shine down on the Vikings and they get Manziel.

Post #: 588

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2013 5:51:33 PM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

The reason I like Manziel is that Alabama has the most drafted defensive players, best coaches, and said players and coaches had tape of him and a year to prepare.....still couldn't stop him

I think it's because Manziel can improvise, is very quick and accurate, and hits so many different parts of the field, you don't really know what he's going to do next. Part of it is the system he's in, but most of it is HIM.

I hope the media really keeps hyping Mariota and Bridgewater, and that that leads to the Vikes getting Manziel. IF Jax and TB starting winning, the Vikes MIGHT get the 1st pick with 2 wins.

Post #: 589

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 8:38:05 AM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

Perfect scenario is if JT2 is right about Manziel being a late 1st/2nd rounder.

Clowney at #3 overall

Trade up to get Johnny Football in mid to late 1st round.

Post #: 590

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 9:08:49 AM

Zoilo

Posts: 8032
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

A lot of M's at the QB position ...
Manziel
Mariota
McCarron
Mettenberger
Murray

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Z

Post #: 591

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 4:31:22 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zoilo

A lot of M's at the QB position ...
Manziel
Mariota
McCarron
Mettenberger
Murray

Miller

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 592

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 8:40:44 PM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I would take Manziel at #3, a good pass rusher isn't going to mean much if you still have no QB. A good QB is 100x more important than a good pass rusher.

Also, I think it's silliness to think Manziel will last to late 1st or 2nd round, I think he's top 10 for sure, unless he gets caught smoking marijuana or something like that. However, IF I'm wrong, and Spielman (for the Vikings, assuming he's still with the organization next year) moves up to grab Manziel in the late 1st, that would be pure genius.

As I said earlier, I would take Manziel with the # ONE pick. To me, he's shown more than Bridgewater or Mariota. I hope the Vikes do NOT get the #1 pick if they are going to go with one of those 2.

I'm o.k. with Bridgewater, but Mariota concerns me. I'm concerned that he'll take some time to develop, or more likely, that he'll be a bust. I don't care what a few 'experts' say, there were plenty of them that liked Ryan Leaf.

Post #: 593

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 10:01:35 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40602
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

What type of QB wins SB's?

Pocket passers.

Bridgewater vs Mariota vs Manziel

One of them is a high completion % true pocket passer.

Easy pick.

Post #: 594

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 10:28:34 PM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

That is just the past.

Someday, you might see a streak of 10 QBs in a row that all won the SB, and none of them regarded as pocket passers. All of them athletic enough to run for a 1st down, on 3rd and 8.

Let's say Kap gets it this year, Wilson the following year, Newton the year after that, than Manziel, then Wilson again, then Manziel again, etc ....

You get the picture. Don't get hung up on cliches, old belief systems, and what you've been told.

Let's say 10 non pocket passers win the SB in a row, would you after 8, want the Vikings to NOT draft a pocket passer (even though they have a chance to draft a GREAT one) because the last 8 SB winners had QBs that were NOT pocket passers ? IF so, you might have missed the one that broke the streak of 10, once again showing that a pocket passer could win the SB.

< Message edited by marty -- 11/12/2013 10:34:15 PM >

Post #: 595

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2013 11:29:07 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40602
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

You could be right, Marty.

If ever there was going to be a time for the trend to flip it would be this era.

For now though, I'll take the guy who stands tall in the pocket and looks to make plays down the field.

I think it's a lot easier for programs to push through running QB's which is sort of good because you'll see the supply used up quickly as they just aren't going to have longs sustainable careers for the most part.

Post #: 596

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/13/2013 5:05:45 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
Status: online

It's not even a debate until we see who the OCord is going to be. If they stick with Frazier's cronnies I can't see any of those guys being successful.

Post #: 597

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/13/2013 9:37:27 PM

Ryan Taylor

Posts: 1287
Joined: 8/9/2007
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It seems Jamies Winston is in some trouble (just investigating right now).

Heisman Frontrunner Reportedly Investigated For Alleged Sexual Assault

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/jameis-winston-sexual-assault-investigation_n_4270450.html

It also must be said that it doesn't seem that there is much of a case.

Ryan "Son of Don" Taylor

< Message edited by Ryan Taylor -- 11/13/2013 9:45:01 PM >

Post #: 598

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/13/2013 11:03:38 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan Taylor

It seems Jamies Winston is in some trouble (just investigating right now).

Heisman Frontrunner Reportedly Investigated For Alleged Sexual Assault

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/13/jameis-winston-sexual-assault-investigation_n_4270450.html

It also must be said that it doesn't seem that there is much of a case.

Ryan "Son of Don" Taylor

Winston's attorney, who indicated the football star had not been interviewed by police. The report did not mention Winston by name and described the suspect as between 5' 9" and 5' 11" tall and weighing 240 pounds, according to the Tallahassee Democrat. Florida State's official athletic website lists Winston as 6' 4" and 224 pounds.

He fits the description of the suspect perfectly.

Post #: 599

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2013 3:02:42 PM

Ben Thomas

Posts: 29
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline

I am in a college fantasy football league and I happen to have both Mariota and Manziel, so I watch as many of their games as possible. Manziel is like Tarkenton was. He runs to get away from defenders. He scrambles all over the place and all the while keeps his eyes downfield waiting for his receivers to come open. When they do, he throws a nice accurate pass. Last year he got panicked a little easier and would then just take off running. This year he looks like he's really trying to stay in the pocket and pass the ball a lot more. I would love nothing more than to have the next Tarkenton in Purple! Mariota is a good passer, but he does seem to rely more on his skills as a runner. Now that his MCL is messed up a bit, we are seeing that the offense isn't quite as dynamic without his ability to just take off running. If given the choice, I take Manziel in a heart beat.

Post #: 600