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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 3:23:56 PM

Bradley H

Posts: 303
Joined: 9/9/2014
From: SoCal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.

I agree with that. Which is why I think we all need to adjust our opinion of the SEC. Great conference? Yes. Lots of power programs. However, lots of shit programs like Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina (always overhyped) and Ole Miss and Mississippi State (who were almost never good until this season).

The recipe in the SEC in recent years is to have an innovative offense. Florida rode it to titles with Tebow. Auburn with Newton. A&M enjoyed success with Manziel. The idea is to score 20 points and make it stick because it has been a defensive conference (until this year). Alabama was kind of the exception, as they were good on both sides of the ball.

< Message edited by Bradley H -- 10/14/2014 3:27:02 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1551

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 4:21:20 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.
Put Texas in the SEC this year and they not only would have started in the Top 10, they also would have competed and likely knocked off an SEC West Power team.

Strongly disagree. As I do on Brad's "Alabama isn't a top 15 team". Ole Miss is a really good team. But if that game is played at Tuscaloosa instead of Oxford, Bama wins that game.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 10/14/2014 4:25:26 PM >

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1552

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 4:22:29 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.

I agree with that. Which is why I think we all need to adjust our opinion of the SEC. Great conference? Yes. Lots of power programs. However, lots of shit programs like Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina (always overhyped) and Ole Miss and Mississippi State (who were almost never good until this season).

The recipe in the SEC in recent years is to have an innovative offense. Florida rode it to titles with Tebow. Auburn with Newton. A&M enjoyed success with Manziel. The idea is to score 20 points and make it stick because it has been a defensive conference (until this year). Alabama was kind of the exception, as they were good on both sides of the ball.

Last I checked, defense still matters, a lot. I'd rather have a great defense than a great offense.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1553

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 5:15:43 PM

Bradley H

Posts: 303
Joined: 9/9/2014
From: SoCal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.
Put Texas in the SEC this year and they not only would have started in the Top 10, they also would have competed and likely knocked off an SEC West Power team.

Strongly disagree. As I do on Brad's "Alabama isn't a top 15 team". Ole Miss is a really good team. But if that game is played at Tuscaloosa instead of Oxford, Bama wins that game.

I have seen three of Bama's games this year and they are a shadow of previous teams. Lost a lot of talent to the NFL. Ole Miss is good, but they have some losses coming.

I actually know some of the kids on both teams. Beau Wallace was a guy I met in Arizona three years ago when he led East Mississippi to a national title and I had him rated the #1 pro style QB from the JUCO ranks that year. Leon Brown of Bama is another I had rated the #6 OT.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1554

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 5:17:04 PM

Bradley H

Posts: 303
Joined: 9/9/2014
From: SoCal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.

I agree with that. Which is why I think we all need to adjust our opinion of the SEC. Great conference? Yes. Lots of power programs. However, lots of shit programs like Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina (always overhyped) and Ole Miss and Mississippi State (who were almost never good until this season).

The recipe in the SEC in recent years is to have an innovative offense. Florida rode it to titles with Tebow. Auburn with Newton. A&M enjoyed success with Manziel. The idea is to score 20 points and make it stick because it has been a defensive conference (until this year). Alabama was kind of the exception, as they were good on both sides of the ball.

Last I checked, defense still matters, a lot. I'd rather have a great defense than a great offense.

I agree, defense is important. IMO, had there been a final four last year Michigan State would have won it all. I thought they were the most complete team at the end of the year.

My point is, I think it is easier to win a defensive conference if you are the only team in the conference with a good offense. As long as you have a respectable defense you can win the SEC with a great offense.

In the PAC 12, almost every team has a very good offense and Stanford has won the conference because they were the only team that played any defense.

Having said that, I think Bama would have had a hard time running the table in the PAC 12 the last two years because they would eventually catch somebody on a good day (which is what happened to USC and Oregon in recent years). The same could be said for Stanford in the SEC because they are pretty vanilla on offense.

The last truly dominant team in college football was USC. They had it all. Bama was close. Auburn and Florida were gimmicky. Both of those teams would have lost some games in the Pac 12.

< Message edited by Bradley H -- 10/14/2014 5:25:26 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1555

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 5:29:50 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.

I agree with that. Which is why I think we all need to adjust our opinion of the SEC. Great conference? Yes. Lots of power programs. However, lots of shit programs like Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina (always overhyped) and Ole Miss and Mississippi State (who were almost never good until this season).

The recipe in the SEC in recent years is to have an innovative offense. Florida rode it to titles with Tebow. Auburn with Newton. A&M enjoyed success with Manziel. The idea is to score 20 points and make it stick because it has been a defensive conference (until this year). Alabama was kind of the exception, as they were good on both sides of the ball.

Last I checked, defense still matters, a lot. I'd rather have a great defense than a great offense.

I agree, defense is important. IMO, had there been a final four last year Michigan State would have won it all. I thought they were the most complete team at the end of the year.

My point is, I think it is easier to win a defensive conference if you are the only team in the conference with a good offense. As long as you have a respectable defense you can win the SEC with a great offense.

In the PAC 12, almost every team has a very good offense and Stanford has won the conference because they were the only team that played any defense.

Having said that, I think Bama would have had a hard time running the table in the PAC 12 the last two years because they would eventually catch somebody on a good day (which is what happened to USC and Oregon in recent years). The same could be said for Stanford in the SEC because they are pretty vanilla on offense.

The last truly dominant team in college football was USC. They had it all. Bama was close. Auburn and Florida were gimmicky. Both of those teams would have lost some games in the Pac 12.

You seem to have a double standard, Brad. You say that the defenses are great in the SEC but it's mostly because of vanillas offenses (I used to agree somewhat with that statement; I don't anymore). But you don't extend the same critique to the Pac12, which is filled with cupcake defenses. A good defense generally beats a good offense.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1556

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 8:11:56 PM

Bradley H

Posts: 303
Joined: 9/9/2014
From: SoCal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.

I agree with that. Which is why I think we all need to adjust our opinion of the SEC. Great conference? Yes. Lots of power programs. However, lots of shit programs like Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina (always overhyped) and Ole Miss and Mississippi State (who were almost never good until this season).

The recipe in the SEC in recent years is to have an innovative offense. Florida rode it to titles with Tebow. Auburn with Newton. A&M enjoyed success with Manziel. The idea is to score 20 points and make it stick because it has been a defensive conference (until this year). Alabama was kind of the exception, as they were good on both sides of the ball.

Last I checked, defense still matters, a lot. I'd rather have a great defense than a great offense.

I agree, defense is important. IMO, had there been a final four last year Michigan State would have won it all. I thought they were the most complete team at the end of the year.

My point is, I think it is easier to win a defensive conference if you are the only team in the conference with a good offense. As long as you have a respectable defense you can win the SEC with a great offense.

In the PAC 12, almost every team has a very good offense and Stanford has won the conference because they were the only team that played any defense.

Having said that, I think Bama would have had a hard time running the table in the PAC 12 the last two years because they would eventually catch somebody on a good day (which is what happened to USC and Oregon in recent years). The same could be said for Stanford in the SEC because they are pretty vanilla on offense.

The last truly dominant team in college football was USC. They had it all. Bama was close. Auburn and Florida were gimmicky. Both of those teams would have lost some games in the Pac 12.

You seem to have a double standard, Brad. You say that the defenses are great in the SEC but it's mostly because of vanillas offenses (I used to agree somewhat with that statement; I don't anymore). But you don't extend the same critique to the Pac12, which is filled with cupcake defenses. A good defense generally beats a good offense.

I try to stay away from broad generalizations. There is no empirical data to support the good defense beats a good offense claim. It is an overcooked myth from the 70's. I have seen plenty of good offenses that beat good defenses, and vice versa. The most complete team wins out over time.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1557

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 8:44:54 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19069
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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Which leads us to the Gophers. Thanks for transition man. It's been long coming.

Post #: 1558

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 11:24:53 PM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

At the very least there is some acknowledgement of a possible gaming of the system at play here.

No question about it. ESPN has an SEC channel. What are the odds they are going to pump the SEC seven days a week? Do they ever come back and say they were wrong? Hell no, they just move on to the next overhyped program.

A perfect example this season is Alabama. They have zero business in the top-15. If you watch their games, they are mediocre, at-best.

Yet the games are actually played by players, on the field. The media has no impact on the outcome. If you choose to read and watch the hype, that's on you. I enjoy watching the games.

Also, I just don't really understand the conference vs. conference arguments. It's a team sport. Win all of your games and win your Bowl Game. If you do that, you're really good. You might even be Champions.

Play in a good conference, win all of your games, then win the Bowl Game. Why is this disputed?

I love PAC football. Oregon suffers from one bad conference loss almost every year. That's on them.

Who cares if the media favors a conference? The games still have to be played.

Lots of whining instead of enjoying. College football rocks.

Post #: 1559

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/14/2014 11:34:50 PM

JT2

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Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.
Put Texas in the SEC this year and they not only would have started in the Top 10, they also would have competed and likely knocked off an SEC West Power team.

Strongly disagree. As I do on Brad's "Alabama isn't a top 15 team". Ole Miss is a really good team. But if that game is played at Tuscaloosa instead of Oxford, Bama wins that game.

I have seen three of Bama's games this year and they are a shadow of previous teams. Lost a lot of talent to the NFL. Ole Miss is good, but they have some losses coming.

I actually know some of the kids on both teams. Beau Wallace was a guy I met in Arizona three years ago when he led East Mississippi to a national title and I had him rated the #1 pro style QB from the JUCO ranks that year. Leon Brown of Bama is another I had rated the #6 OT.

Hopefully you didn't write about him. It's Bo, not Beau. Perhaps you have him confused with that cat that played baseball at Hinds Community College.

Post #: 1560

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/15/2014 9:29:48 AM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Well said. I don't think Pac12 football or Big12 football are as good as SEC football, but I definitely enjoy watching them. The games still matter.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1561

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/15/2014 10:59:36 AM

Bradley H

Posts: 303
Joined: 9/9/2014
From: SoCal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Yeah, I get that, but success was immediate and recruiting usually isn't.
Put Texas in the SEC this year and they not only would have started in the Top 10, they also would have competed and likely knocked off an SEC West Power team.

Strongly disagree. As I do on Brad's "Alabama isn't a top 15 team". Ole Miss is a really good team. But if that game is played at Tuscaloosa instead of Oxford, Bama wins that game.

I have seen three of Bama's games this year and they are a shadow of previous teams. Lost a lot of talent to the NFL. Ole Miss is good, but they have some losses coming.

I actually know some of the kids on both teams. Beau Wallace was a guy I met in Arizona three years ago when he led East Mississippi to a national title and I had him rated the #1 pro style QB from the JUCO ranks that year. Leon Brown of Bama is another I had rated the #6 OT.

Hopefully you didn't write about him. It's Bo, not Beau. Perhaps you have him confused with that cat that played baseball at Hinds Community College.

Sorry, been awhile.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1562

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/15/2014 11:01:12 AM

Bradley H

Posts: 303
Joined: 9/9/2014
From: SoCal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Well said. I don't think Pac12 football or Big12 football are as good as SEC football, but I definitely enjoy watching them. The games still matter.

That we can agree on. College football is a great product so long as you turn off the sound on Vern Lundquist and Gary Danielson.

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Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1563

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/15/2014 11:29:56 AM

McMurfy

Posts: 13790
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bradley H

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Well said. I don't think Pac12 football or Big12 football are as good as SEC football, but I definitely enjoy watching them. The games still matter.

That we can agree on. College football is a great product so long as you turn off the sound on Vern Lundquist and Gary Danielson.

And Lou Holtz, my God send that donkey out to pasture

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The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 1564

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/18/2014 10:48:19 PM

Ian Joseph

Posts: 15350
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline

WHO IS JALEN RAMSEY!!!! OMG IM IN LOVE!

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Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

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Post #: 1565

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/18/2014 11:05:19 PM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

WHO IS JALEN RAMSEY!!!! OMG IM IN LOVE!

I'm happy you noticed. The cat is a freak athlete. Young, versatile and a leader.

Post #: 1566

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/18/2014 11:08:39 PM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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I'm still trippin off that hit he put on dude at the 2 yard line.. a simple "push" out of bounds and the WR goes flying!!!

What year is he? He's a monster. Him on this defense = Super Bowl.

_____________________________

Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

Believe.

Post #: 1567

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/18/2014 11:26:16 PM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

I'm still trippin off that hit he put on dude at the 2 yard line.. a simple "push" out of bounds and the WR goes flying!!!

What year is he? He's a monster. Him on this defense = Super Bowl.

Sophomore. Still learning the game. CB and Safety. 4.5ish with a 40" vertical.

2016 1st Rounder.

Post #: 1568

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/18/2014 11:29:52 PM

Ian Joseph

Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline

I'll be watching.

_____________________________

Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

Believe.

Post #: 1569

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/19/2014 8:46:18 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17844
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Ramsey was everywhere last night.

That DE FSU put in on the goal line as an extra FB simply destroyed anyone in front of him.

Not sure what Kelly was thinking having his wr's mug the DB's to get Robinson open on that late TD which obviously was brought back. Hell of a game though. Irish are for real.

Winston is very good. His arm is similiar to a young Elway. Accurate to boot. Sure hope the kid doesn't throw his life away by continuing to do immature stuff off the field.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1570

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/19/2014 10:36:48 AM

Guest

Couldn't focus on the FSU game with the Ducks rolling the Huskies like a cheap joint.

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I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 1571

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/19/2014 10:38:09 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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How about OU piling up over 500 yards of offense and still lose.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1572

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/19/2014 10:41:57 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

How about OU piling up over 500 yards of offense and still lose.

Big win for K-State.
Bad loss for Stoops.

_____________________________

I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 1573

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/19/2014 10:55:23 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

How about OU piling up over 500 yards of offense and still lose.

Big win for K-State.
Bad loss for Stoops.

I thought K-State was suppose to have an incredible defense?

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1574

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 10/19/2014 11:02:02 AM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

How about OU piling up over 500 yards of offense and still lose.

Big win for K-State.
Bad loss for Stoops.

I thought K-State was suppose to have an incredible defense?