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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 7:12:53 PM

Karl H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

FSU certainly has talent. But this year's team is not last year's team. They don't have a single win against a top 25 team. Not one. And they've won a LOT of close games. Think about that for a second. Honestly, if they didn't win it all LAST year (which should have no bearing on this year IMO) they might not make the playoff, even undefeated, with their body of work this year.

Wouldn't shock me in the slightest to still see Ole Miss or Georgia sneak back into the playoff picture by the end of the next 3 weeks.

I don't think FSU scheduled weak non-conference teams. Notre Dame is a traditional power. Florida from the SEC is a traditional power. It's not their fault the teams on their schedule didn't win more. They beat everyone who lined up across from them. Close wins yes, they certainly seem to play to the level of their competition. Let's see how that works out come playoff time.

For Mississippi to get consideration, they would have to knock out Miss. St, right? Unless most of the one loss teams also lose again. I don't think you can take a team that lost 2 games in the month of Nov.
Interesting on Georgia. If Missouri wins out, which they will be favored to do, they will win the SEC East and play in the conf championship game. Can a team that didn't win it's side of the conference get into the final 4?

Post #: 1951

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 7:32:29 PM

djskillz

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I'm not arguing about who they "tried to schedule". Obviously you just never know. I'm simply saying that they have not played like the #1 team in the country this year, or even a top 4 team really, given their entire body of work.

As for Ole Miss; yep. That's implied. They'd have to beat MSU, which certainly wouldn't be shocking. It's at Ole Miss and they may even be favored in that game. People forget that they've lost their two games by a combined 7 points. One at LSU at night, one of the toughest places to play in the country. And the other on one of the most heartbreaking final plays we've seen in years against a very good Auburn team. Would not surprise me one bit if they won that game and made it back into the mix. And again, I wouldn't be shocked at all if any of the top 7-8 teams lost a game still.

On Georgia, certainly possible re: the non-division winning team. For instance, if Mississippi State wins out, they're highly likely to be in the playoff still, and yet right now if Bama also wins out, they'll represent the SEC West in the championship game. Also, Missouri isn't favored to win out. In fact, they're underdogs to UT next week. They're really not a very good team, IMO. They just lucked out in the schedule a bit. Georgia dominated them 34-0 head to head.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1952

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 8:10:13 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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I've been barely keeping up with this because it's been so biased. I apologize if this has been hashed out.

One thing that is complete BS, that never gets brought up, is the fact that the SEC teams take an extra bi-week during, what should be, conference schedule to play teams like Lafayette Monroe and something called "Presbyterian". That should be banned, IMO.

It's a very unfair advantage.

Post #: 1953

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 8:12:51 PM

joejitsu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I've been barely keeping up with this because it's been so biased. I apologize if this has been hashed out.

One thing that is complete BS, that never gets brought up, is the fact that the SEC teams take an extra bi-week during, what should be, conference schedule to play teams like Lafayette Monroe and something called "Presbyterian". That should be banned, IMO.

It's a very unfair advantage.

We are 100% in agreement on that.

Post #: 1954

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 9:07:01 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I've been barely keeping up with this because it's been so biased. I apologize if this has been hashed out.

One thing that is complete BS, that never gets brought up, is the fact that the SEC teams take an extra bi-week during, what should be, conference schedule to play teams like Lafayette Monroe and something called "Presbyterian". That should be banned, IMO.

It's a very unfair advantage.

Oh yeah, it's been brought up.
The SEC, a 14 team conference, only plays 8 conference games.
The Big 10 and Pac-12 play a nine game conference schedule.

The 14 team conference gives you the advantage of, well we win x amount of titles and we send x amount of guys to the NFL, but, when you only play 8 of them you get the reward without the risk.

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Post #: 1955

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 9:13:53 PM

John Childress

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When you watch FSU play, for most of the game they don't even look like a Top 25 team. Then for about 15-25 minutes they turn it on and look like a top team

All in all, I never expected them to look this bad

But that said, until someone beats them they are number one

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1956

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 9:54:10 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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Can't argue with that man. They get it done. Isn't petty, at times, but effective. And, I hate them so....hard to type. The fact that they aren't #1 in the polls is SEC bias bullshit. They haven't lost in about 2 years. Come on.

Again, I say that with venom but damn.....right is right.

Post #: 1957

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/16/2014 10:19:18 PM

djskillz

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"Two years" means nothing to me, and it shouldn't to the voters. It's not the same team. Does this team have Benjamin, for instance? No. You have to judge them solely on this year. It isn't the 2013-15 playoffs. Now granted, they probably deserve to be in the playoffs because they haven't lost and they are talented. But I don't see how anyone can say they believe they've been the most deserving THIS SEASON in the nation, over teams like Alabama, Miss St, and Oregon. And quite possibly even TCU and Baylor. I could care less if it's the SEC or Pac12, or whoever. I'd argue the same thing. And ya, they may do quite well in the playoff if they make it. But all you can judge on is the body of work this season. And their body of work, despite not losing, is unimpressive. That's all.

As for the extra conference game argument, I guess it holds some merit. But really, these teams have all played brutal schedules anyway. So I don't really see how adding, or even losing, one conference game would change that.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1958

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 8:24:41 AM

John Childress

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Bull

Most of the players are the same

Again, the SEC has some of the worst QBs in college football

All that talk about them being a super conference is pure bull

You can't win in today's football with crap QBs

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1959

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 9:14:22 AM

djskillz

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Yet they've won 7 of the last 8 titles, with 4 different teams. And only barely lost the other one. And they're likely to win another one this year. Alabama is the favorite at this point. Again, these teams are VERY close (MSU/Alabama/OleMiss/Auburn/Georgia, and even LSU) so either you think they all are overrated and not that great, or they're all very good.

It is not the same team. And heck, even if it is, they haven't played the same. You don't base THIS year on last year IMO. That's not fair to anyone playing. This year they have not been impressive all year. Now they may turn it on if they make the playoff, but we haven't seen it yet.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1960

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 9:46:12 AM

McMurfy

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On one hand you argue about 7 of the past 8 years by 4 different teams, then you go on to argue that you cannot compare this year's FSU team to last years, because they are two different teams.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

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Post #: 1961

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 10:05:09 AM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

On one hand you argue about 7 of the past 8 years by 4 different teams, then you go on to argue that you cannot compare this year's FSU team to last years, because they are two different teams.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

But I'm not arguing for those individual teams. I'm not saying "Florida should be in the playoff; they're awesome." Or LSU. I'm arguing the strength and depth of the conference over the last 10 years. No other conference is close in matching that. Should the Seahawks get an automatic playoff bid because they won the Super Bowl last year?

This is a pretty good take too, especially the bolded part. He's right:

1. Alabama 2. Oregon 3. Mississippi State and 4. Florida State. Baylor will be fifth and TCU will be sixth with Ohio State in seventh place. (There's some possibility Ohio State jumps TCU once the Buckeyes are official Big Ten champs).
There probably wouldn't be that much debate over the top three teams -- I'm assuming that the committee wouldn't have the guts to drop undefeated FSU out of the playoff -- and 12-1 Oregon and Alabama would be easy decisions. So what about the fourth team?
When you compare resumes it's pretty easy to see it would be 11-1 Mississippi State. Mississippi State has the best collection of wins of any of the one-loss teams other than Alabama and Oregon -- I'm assuming that both of these teams will finish 12-1 -- and has by far the best loss. Let's examine these resumes more closely like we were on the committee.
Let's start with the losses: Of TCU, Baylor, Mississippi State, and Ohio State only Mississippi State and TCU lost to currently ranked teams. TCU's loss is to Baylor, a team that has to be ranked above them. Baylor lost by 14 to an unranked West Virginia team, but Ohio State has the worst loss of any of the top six one loss teams, a 14 point home loss to an awful Virginia Tech team. Mississippi State lost by five on the road at Alabama, who may be the top ranked team in the country when the new committee poll comes out Tuesday. Even Oregon, the committee's present number two team doesn't have as good of a loss as Mississippi State, having lost at home to Arizona. So of the one loss teams, Mississippi State has the "best loss," by a pretty substantial margin. TCU has the second best loss, Baylor the third best loss, and Ohio State has the worst loss of all.
What about best wins? Ohio State and Mississippi State both have one top 25 win -- Texas A&M, LSU, and Minnesota fell out of the poll this week -- and with the return of Oklahoma to the poll Baylor and TCU each have two top 25 wins. The best win of this group is Baylor over TCU. As I'll discuss below the non-conference schedule is insubstantial for all of these teams so it has no real impact on this decision. Mississippi State is the only team with a game left against a present top ten opponent while Baylor still has #12 Kansas State the last week of the season. Ohio State will probably get Wisconsin in the Big Ten title game, but unfortunately Wisconsin has already lost to LSU, the sixth ranked team in the SEC West. (It's worth noting that unranked LSU has more top 14 victories, two, than any team in the country.) So that Ohio State win over Wisconsin, if it happens, will be undercut by the fact that the sixth place team in the SEC West also beat them.
(Let me also take a moment to say that I believe the committee should be using the Las Vegas top 25 instead of the actual top 25 to consider wins. Arkansas, for instance, beat top 20 LSU this weekend, but the unranked Razorbacks were favored to win that game. According to Vegas 5-5 Arkansas is a top 25 team. Indeed, the Razorbacks are just two point underdogs to top ten Ole Miss. Arkansas would be favored to beat every ACC team on a neutral field except for FSU, and that game would be tight. Southern Cal just snuck back into the top 25, but they've been a Vegas top 25 team all season. If UCLA beats Southern Cal this weekend, USC will fall out of the top 25, but Southern Cal will still be one of the 25 best teams in the country. The Vegas top 25 is more accurate than the actual top 25.)
Right now the objective rankings of these four teams has to be: 1. Mississippi State 2. Baylor 3. TCU 4. Ohio State and the only possible team you can argue should be ranked above Mississippi State is Baylor.
That's why when you consider all the data, 11-1 Mississippi State would be in the playoff.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1962

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 12:07:49 PM

djskillz

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I always thought it was stupid for say, a #20 team, to drop out of the rankings after losing a close game to say, the #5 team. Ditto in basketball. That makes no sense. That's what's supposed to happen. That #20 team didn't suddenly become a worse team because they lost a game like that. That's why you had them at #20 and not at #5. That's why I really like that Vegas idea. The polls in general are BS.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1963

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 12:11:23 PM

bohumm

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From: Altadena, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

On one hand you argue about 7 of the past 8 years by 4 different teams, then you go on to argue that you cannot compare this year's FSU team to last years, because they are two different teams.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

But I'm not arguing for those individual teams. I'm not saying "Florida should be in the playoff; they're awesome." Or LSU. I'm arguing the strength and depth of the conference over the last 10 years. No other conference is close in matching that. Should the Seahawks get an automatic playoff bid because they won the Super Bowl last year?

This is a pretty good take too, especially the bolded part. He's right:

1. Alabama 2. Oregon 3. Mississippi State and 4. Florida State. Baylor will be fifth and TCU will be sixth with Ohio State in seventh place. (There's some possibility Ohio State jumps TCU once the Buckeyes are official Big Ten champs).
There probably wouldn't be that much debate over the top three teams -- I'm assuming that the committee wouldn't have the guts to drop undefeated FSU out of the playoff -- and 12-1 Oregon and Alabama would be easy decisions. So what about the fourth team?
When you compare resumes it's pretty easy to see it would be 11-1 Mississippi State. Mississippi State has the best collection of wins of any of the one-loss teams other than Alabama and Oregon -- I'm assuming that both of these teams will finish 12-1 -- and has by far the best loss. Let's examine these resumes more closely like we were on the committee.
Let's start with the losses: Of TCU, Baylor, Mississippi State, and Ohio State only Mississippi State and TCU lost to currently ranked teams. TCU's loss is to Baylor, a team that has to be ranked above them. Baylor lost by 14 to an unranked West Virginia team, but Ohio State has the worst loss of any of the top six one loss teams, a 14 point home loss to an awful Virginia Tech team. Mississippi State lost by five on the road at Alabama, who may be the top ranked team in the country when the new committee poll comes out Tuesday. Even Oregon, the committee's present number two team doesn't have as good of a loss as Mississippi State, having lost at home to Arizona. So of the one loss teams, Mississippi State has the "best loss," by a pretty substantial margin. TCU has the second best loss, Baylor the third best loss, and Ohio State has the worst loss of all.
What about best wins? Ohio State and Mississippi State both have one top 25 win -- Texas A&M, LSU, and Minnesota fell out of the poll this week -- and with the return of Oklahoma to the poll Baylor and TCU each have two top 25 wins. The best win of this group is Baylor over TCU. As I'll discuss below the non-conference schedule is insubstantial for all of these teams so it has no real impact on this decision. Mississippi State is the only team with a game left against a present top ten opponent while Baylor still has #12 Kansas State the last week of the season. Ohio State will probably get Wisconsin in the Big Ten title game, but unfortunately Wisconsin has already lost to LSU, the sixth ranked team in the SEC West. (It's worth noting that unranked LSU has more top 14 victories, two, than any team in the country.) So that Ohio State win over Wisconsin, if it happens, will be undercut by the fact that the sixth place team in the SEC West also beat them.
(Let me also take a moment to say that I believe the committee should be using the Las Vegas top 25 instead of the actual top 25 to consider wins. Arkansas, for instance, beat top 20 LSU this weekend, but the unranked Razorbacks were favored to win that game. According to Vegas 5-5 Arkansas is a top 25 team. Indeed, the Razorbacks are just two point underdogs to top ten Ole Miss. Arkansas would be favored to beat every ACC team on a neutral field except for FSU, and that game would be tight. Southern Cal just snuck back into the top 25, but they've been a Vegas top 25 team all season. If UCLA beats Southern Cal this weekend, USC will fall out of the top 25, but Southern Cal will still be one of the 25 best teams in the country. The Vegas top 25 is more accurate than the actual top 25.)
Right now the objective rankings of these four teams has to be: 1. Mississippi State 2. Baylor 3. TCU 4. Ohio State and the only possible team you can argue should be ranked above Mississippi State is Baylor.
That's why when you consider all the data, 11-1 Mississippi State would be in the playoff.

Ohio State also has a better win, though. Who has Baylor or TCU beaten that you think could beat Mich State?

Post #: 1964

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/17/2014 12:16:24 PM

djskillz

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Well, in Baylor's case: TCU. There's no doubt Baylor should be above TCU. KSU would probably be comparable to Michigan State.

I agree that I'd take Ohio State over Baylor/TCU on a neutral field. But I'd also take OleMiss/Georgia/Auburn over all 3 on a neutral field.

I wonder what the Vegas numbers would be on those.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1965

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 8:03:14 AM

John Childress

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Kevin Hart Tells Jameis Winston to 'Stop Doing Dumb S--t,'

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2270707-kevin-hart-tells-jameis-winston-to-stop-doing-dumb-s-t-makes-crab-leg-joke

_____________________________

No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1966

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 8:51:25 AM

bohumm

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From: Altadena, CA
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Any team taking that kid has to do a massive amount of due diligence and then is still taking a massive risk. Stay away.....

Post #: 1967

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 9:52:58 AM

Ed_Marotske

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Does Winston go in round 1? If so, where? If not, how far does he slide?

Post #: 1968

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 10:05:37 AM

Rob Viking

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Winston won't go past the Jets or Rams if they slide.

Heck even the Giants, if they totally free fall down the stretch they too should definitely look at a QBOTF.

Post #: 1969

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 10:06:39 AM

Rob Viking

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The Bucs as well, either way Mariota is probably going to one of these teams, Oakland may find it tough to pass up Mariota too.

Post #: 1970

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 11:11:33 AM

John Childress

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Oakland would be wise to trade their pick to a desperate team and add several key pieces

As long as they believe in Carr

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1971

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 7:34:47 PM

Andy Lowe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Miss St wont stay ahead of TCU.. TCU won on the road; Miss St didn't.

Alabama might jump TCU. In fact, I expect it (and have no issues with it).

Apology accepted.....

Post #: 1972

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 7:36:32 PM

Andy Lowe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Oakland would be wise to trade their pick to a desperate team and add several key pieces

As long as they believe in Carr

As bad as Oakland is, Carr looks to be far and away the best QB of this draft

Post #: 1973

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 8:25:08 PM

Matt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Oakland would be wise to trade their pick to a desperate team and add several key pieces

As long as they believe in Carr

As bad as Oakland is, Carr looks to be far and away the best QB of this draft

Aye, and I wish we had taken him

Post #: 1974

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/18/2014 8:39:28 PM

bohumm

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From: Altadena, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

Oakland would be wise to trade their pick to a desperate team and add several key pieces

As long as they believe in Carr

As bad as Oakland is, Carr looks to be far and away the best QB of this draft