quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

I believe that Brady did it and I also believe it wasn't a big deal, either. The fact that this was even exaggerated into such a conspiracy is shameful. He broke the rules by having a football deflated. Give him a fine and move on; suspension if it happens again. Goodell seems to enjoy his role as judge, jury, and executioner. Just like Goodell would say that the Patriots are repeat offenders for rule violations, he is a repeat offender now at dispensing proper justice. First Peterson, now this. Then he wants to be the one that handles the appeal process, too? Come on. Where is the neutral arbitrator? Any appeals should be handles outside of the NFL office scope of authority.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

I believe that Brady did it and I also believe it wasn't a big deal, either. The fact that this was even exaggerated into such a conspiracy is shameful. He broke the rules by having a football deflated. Give him a fine and move on; suspension if it happens again. Goodell seems to enjoy his role as judge, jury, and executioner. Just like Goodell would say that the Patriots are repeat offenders for rule violations, he is a repeat offender now at dispensing proper justice. First Peterson, now this. Then he wants to be the one that handles the appeal process, too? Come on. Where is the neutral arbitrator? Any appeals should be handles outside of the NFL office scope of authority.

Great post Dave!

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

The evolution of Tom Brady from humble hero to arrogant rule breaker.

Back in 2001 the football world fell in love with Tom Brady. He didn't play a lot in college as the coach there wrongly thought Drew Henson was a superior talent. He wasn't highly sought after in the draft because he didn't have a cannon arm or put up great stats in college. But when Drew Bledsoe went down, Brady stepped up and played under pressure with a type of calm and cool not seen since Joe Montana. Yes, he got some breaks - The Oakland Raiders still think they won that snow game! But he made the most of them.

Over the next decade Tom would see 5 Super Bowls and would win 3 of them leading up to last year's playoffs. He married a super model and became America's darling. He, and the Patriots, felt he was invincible. Well from 2004 until 2014 he went through a dry spell of not winning any SBs. He also was getting older. So in 2014 he looked for any edge he could to win one more ring to tie Montana and Bradshaw.

Yes, he had the balls deflated. We know the Pats had already had spygate. The culture the developed was win at all costs. Now what Brady did was pretty minor. Take your fine and move on. But his arrogance would not allow him to do that. He refused to accept any punishment so instead he weakly attempted to cover up and destroyed his phone. He really thinks he is above the rules.
The funny thing is they blew the Colts out and he didn't even need to do that. It is like Nixon bugging Watergate before an election he was going to win easily.
Brady actually is getting off easy. If the NFL was going to come down hard he should have been suspended for the Super Bowl. But in his arrogance he can't accept any punishment and thus this story will drag on until decided in the courts.

Win or lose in court - his legacy will forever be tarnished.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's going to be fun when the NFL's "science" is completely debunked in court and Brady makes the entire league have a black eye for this whole sham of an "investigation". Can't wait.

Dustin - you were the first person I thought of when the news hit that he had destroyed his phone and deleted hundreds of text messages when asked to turn them over. I thought for sure you'd offer a mea culpa and admit that he probably did play a hand in some level of equipment tampering. Of course - if he didn't do anything wrong - why destroy his phone and e-mails?

But I admit I was wrong. You still can't see that he had a hand in something that was cheating. If it wasn't cheating, why the secret communications with the equipment guys?

Secret communication?

Also, as I've said from the beginning; he had no requirement to ever turn over his phone. And your assertion that he deleted hundreds of texts also has no merit. If I'm Tom Brady and my wife is Gisele, there's no way in hell I'm handing my cell phone over either. Since he wasn't planning on turning over the phone, there's really no reason NOT to get rid of that phone if you're getting a new cell phone, months after this investigation started. My guess would be that pretty much all celebrities "destroy" their old phones. I know that I would in their situation.

The most rational explanation remains as it always has that the Patriots footballs were deflated to around 12.5 PSI, right at the legal limit, and the Colts' footballs were deflated to around 13 PSI, because Luck likes a more inflated football. And ALL footballs lost about 1 PSI due to the temperatures, consistent with the vast majority of science/math on this. If you disagree, then you haven't really delved into the science at all. The NFL has an inconsistent/poor process for measuring/regulating football pressure, and Troy Vincent didn't understand the science at all so jumped to conclusions that he tried to cover up for in the course of the "investigation". Now Goodell has done the same to cover up his employee's/leagues errors rather than admit their own incompetence.

Again, it boils down to this:

There is ZERO evidence that Brady ordered his equipment guys to deflate the balls. Zero.
There is also ZERO evidence that the balls were ever underinflated at the time of the inspection. Science/math backs that up.

I know you hate Brady and the Patriots, but everything else is just nonsense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Guilt was never in question to me. I just never really cared that he did it. Clearly you wouldn't destroy the phone investigators were looking for - that was allowed to be prescreened to remove sensitive information - if you had nothing to hide.

Brady should have just taken his lumps. Like (most of) the public wouldn't forgive and forget. Now he's stuck in the ultimate liar's denial game. He'll continue to fight it. Which in the end is worse than the actual transgression.

Probably end up someday where it always ends up...with an admission of guilt. Then people will be like - way to cheat and lie ya big liar and cheater. Whereas this could have all blown over as a simple attempt to gain a competitive edge against overly strict rules on football regulations.

There is no way there is ever an admission of guilt on this, as there shouldn't be, because no guilt occurred.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I still don't get why the NFL doesn't have control of the game balls. Why give the teams any access to them at all? That way they are all the same.

Because they're morons. The NFL becomes a bigger and bigger joke each day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Basically, I'm saying that you give him the fine whether he admits it or not. Then he can appeal the fine if he disagrees. Goodell is making this a spectacle like it's some kind of witch hunt. Either way, an employee (player) is about to be suspended four games for deflating a football while other employees (i.e. Greg Hardy) have been suspended the same number of games for beating a woman senseless enough to not even show up to a trial out of fear for retaliation). What in the actual F? If you (by you, I mean anyone) want to bring up the fact that Hardy's suspension became 4 games after he was honest and Brady's suspension could have been reduced as well if he was honest, I would make the assertion that this has become a farce based on that same premise. Just mean what you say the first time when giving a suspension. If it's going to be reduced based on appeal, it just seems flawed in logic. Either a player serves the suspension or they appeal, win, and the suspension is lifted. I'm tired of Goodell's games. He is tarnishing the shield.

This should have just been a fine anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Basically, I'm saying that you give him the fine whether he admits it or not. Then he can appeal the fine if he disagrees. Goodell is making this a spectacle like it's some kind of witch hunt. Either way, an employee (player) is about to be suspended four games for deflating a football while other employees (i.e. Greg Hardy) have been suspended the same number of games for beating a woman senseless enough to not even show up to a trial out of fear for retaliation). What in the actual F? If you (by you, I mean anyone) want to bring up the fact that Hardy's suspension became 4 games after he was honest and Brady's suspension could have been reduced as well if he was honest, I would make the assertion that this has become a farce based on that same premise. Just mean what you say the first time when giving a suspension. If it's going to be reduced based on appeal, it just seems flawed in logic. Either a player serves the suspension or they appeal, win, and the suspension is lifted. I'm tired of Goodell's games. He is tarnishing the shield.

This should have just been a fine anyway.

Give me a break on the Hardy thing. He was not suspended for 4 games. How many games did he miss last year also? Answer 15 so Hardy's suspension in total is 19 games. What Hardy did is of course despicable if it is as I understand it to be. However, Brady's
cheating as I understand it goes against the very integrity of the game. It puts a huge black eye on the NFL and all that the Patriots have accomplished.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Brady was not asked to turn over his cell phone.

from wells report:

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I still don't get why the NFL doesn't have control of the game balls. Why give the teams any access to them at all? That way they are all the same.

Because they're morons. The NFL becomes a bigger and bigger joke each day.

Teams should have no contact with the game balls and the same ones should be used by both teams.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Brady was not asked to turn over his cell phone.

from wells report:

He didn't have to turn over his cell phone. all his side had to do was reproduce the relevant texts for the investigation.

they wouldn't do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Basically, I'm saying that you give him the fine whether he admits it or not. Then he can appeal the fine if he disagrees. Goodell is making this a spectacle like it's some kind of witch hunt. Either way, an employee (player) is about to be suspended four games for deflating a football while other employees (i.e. Greg Hardy) have been suspended the same number of games for beating a woman senseless enough to not even show up to a trial out of fear for retaliation). What in the actual F? If you (by you, I mean anyone) want to bring up the fact that Hardy's suspension became 4 games after he was honest and Brady's suspension could have been reduced as well if he was honest, I would make the assertion that this has become a farce based on that same premise. Just mean what you say the first time when giving a suspension. If it's going to be reduced based on appeal, it just seems flawed in logic. Either a player serves the suspension or they appeal, win, and the suspension is lifted. I'm tired of Goodell's games. He is tarnishing the shield.

This should have just been a fine anyway.

Give me a break on the Hardy thing. He was not suspended for 4 games. How many games did he miss last year also? Answer 15 so Hardy's suspension in total is 19 games. What Hardy did is of course despicable if it is as I understand it to be. However, Brady's
cheating as I understand it goes against the very integrity of the game. It puts a huge black eye on the NFL and all that the Patriots have accomplished.

This is actually quite embarrassing because I believed I had a solid comparison w/ regard to Greg Hardy and the number of games suspended. Can you tell me if all 15 games were due to suspension or a combination of injury as well? I certainly don't mind giving credit when losing an argument... and believe me, I enjoy a good debate.

My point on Brady stands, however. I believe that the transgression deserves a fine and suspension for repeated offenses. Goodell simply has too much power. He should not be in charge of the appeals process. He shouldn't be involved in it in any way. It's a conflict of interest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's going to be fun when the NFL's "science" is completely debunked in court and Brady makes the entire league have a black eye for this whole sham of an "investigation". Can't wait.

Dustin - you were the first person I thought of when the news hit that he had destroyed his phone and deleted hundreds of text messages when asked to turn them over. I thought for sure you'd offer a mea culpa and admit that he probably did play a hand in some level of equipment tampering. Of course - if he didn't do anything wrong - why destroy his phone and e-mails?

But I admit I was wrong. You still can't see that he had a hand in something that was cheating. If it wasn't cheating, why the secret communications with the equipment guys?

Secret communication?

Also, as I've said from the beginning; he had no requirement to ever turn over his phone. And your assertion that he deleted hundreds of texts also has no merit. If I'm Tom Brady and my wife is Gisele, there's no way in hell I'm handing my cell phone over either. Since he wasn't planning on turning over the phone, there's really no reason NOT to get rid of that phone if you're getting a new cell phone, months after this investigation started. My guess would be that pretty much all celebrities "destroy" their old phones. I know that I would in their situation.

The most rational explanation remains as it always has that the Patriots footballs were deflated to around 12.5 PSI, right at the legal limit, and the Colts' footballs were deflated to around 13 PSI, because Luck likes a more inflated football. And ALL footballs lost about 1 PSI due to the temperatures, consistent with the vast majority of science/math on this. If you disagree, then you haven't really delved into the science at all. The NFL has an inconsistent/poor process for measuring/regulating football pressure, and Troy Vincent didn't understand the science at all so jumped to conclusions that he tried to cover up for in the course of the "investigation". Now Goodell has done the same to cover up his employee's/leagues errors rather than admit their own incompetence.

Again, it boils down to this:

There is ZERO evidence that Brady ordered his equipment guys to deflate the balls. Zero.
There is also ZERO evidence that the balls were ever underinflated at the time of the inspection. Science/math backs that up.

I know you hate Brady and the Patriots, but everything else is just nonsense.

As much as you would like to think there is no evidence there absolutely is evidence. It just happens to be circumstantial. In a court of law would I find Brady guilty. No way. In my court of opinion I absolutely see him as guilty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

I believe that Brady did it and I also believe it wasn't a big deal, either. The fact that this was even exaggerated into such a conspiracy is shameful. He broke the rules by having a football deflated. Give him a fine and move on; suspension if it happens again. Goodell seems to enjoy his role as judge, jury, and executioner. Just like Goodell would say that the Patriots are repeat offenders for rule violations, he is a repeat offender now at dispensing proper justice. First Peterson, now this. Then he wants to be the one that handles the appeal process, too? Come on. Where is the neutral arbitrator? Any appeals should be handles outside of the NFL office scope of authority.

Great post Dave!

If he admitted to it I could agree with Dave's assessment. However, since he destroyed evidence and continues to play the innocent victim to the nation I think the book should be thrown at him. Suspend him for the season unless he comes clean.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Basically, I'm saying that you give him the fine whether he admits it or not. Then he can appeal the fine if he disagrees. Goodell is making this a spectacle like it's some kind of witch hunt. Either way, an employee (player) is about to be suspended four games for deflating a football while other employees (i.e. Greg Hardy) have been suspended the same number of games for beating a woman senseless enough to not even show up to a trial out of fear for retaliation). What in the actual F? If you (by you, I mean anyone) want to bring up the fact that Hardy's suspension became 4 games after he was honest and Brady's suspension could have been reduced as well if he was honest, I would make the assertion that this has become a farce based on that same premise. Just mean what you say the first time when giving a suspension. If it's going to be reduced based on appeal, it just seems flawed in logic. Either a player serves the suspension or they appeal, win, and the suspension is lifted. I'm tired of Goodell's games. He is tarnishing the shield.

This should have just been a fine anyway.

Give me a break on the Hardy thing. He was not suspended for 4 games. How many games did he miss last year also? Answer 15 so Hardy's suspension in total is 19 games. What Hardy did is of course despicable if it is as I understand it to be. However, Brady's
cheating as I understand it goes against the very integrity of the game. It puts a huge black eye on the NFL and all that the Patriots have accomplished.

This is actually quite embarrassing because I believed I had a solid comparison w/ regard to Greg Hardy and the number of games suspended. Can you tell me if all 15 games were due to suspension or a combination of injury as well? I certainly don't mind giving credit when losing an argument... and believe me, I enjoy a good debate.

My point on Brady stands, however. I believe that the transgression deserves a fine and suspension for repeated offenses. Goodell simply has too much power. He should not be in charge of the appeals process. He shouldn't be involved in it in any way. It's a conflict of interest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

I believe that Brady did it and I also believe it wasn't a big deal, either. The fact that this was even exaggerated into such a conspiracy is shameful. He broke the rules by having a football deflated. Give him a fine and move on; suspension if it happens again. Goodell seems to enjoy his role as judge, jury, and executioner. Just like Goodell would say that the Patriots are repeat offenders for rule violations, he is a repeat offender now at dispensing proper justice. First Peterson, now this. Then he wants to be the one that handles the appeal process, too? Come on. Where is the neutral arbitrator? Any appeals should be handles outside of the NFL office scope of authority.

Great post Dave!

If he admitted to it I could agree with Dave's assessment. However, since he destroyed evidence and continues to play the innocent victim to the nation I think the book should be thrown at him. Suspend him for the season unless he comes clean.

Funny stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Also spot-on. This should dispute any crazy cell phone "smoking gun" theories. The NFL is a joke:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/brady-offered-to-help-nfl-gather-missing-text-messages/

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2015

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

I believe that Brady did it and I also believe it wasn't a big deal, either. The fact that this was even exaggerated into such a conspiracy is shameful. He broke the rules by having a football deflated. Give him a fine and move on; suspension if it happens again. Goodell seems to enjoy his role as judge, jury, and executioner. Just like Goodell would say that the Patriots are repeat offenders for rule violations, he is a repeat offender now at dispensing proper justice. First Peterson, now this. Then he wants to be the one that handles the appeal process, too? Come on. Where is the neutral arbitrator? Any appeals should be handles outside of the NFL office scope of authority.

Great post Dave!

If he admitted to it I could agree with Dave's assessment. However, since he destroyed evidence and continues to play the innocent victim to the nation I think the book should be thrown at him. Suspend him for the season unless he comes clean.

Funny stuff.

What's funny about Brady cheating and then continuing his attempt to play the innocent victim?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

I still don't get why the NFL doesn't have control of the game balls. Why give the teams any access to them at all? That way they are all the same.

Because they're morons. The NFL becomes a bigger and bigger joke each day.

Teams should have no contact with the game balls and the same ones should be used by both teams.

Be kind of hard to play the games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Brady was not asked to turn over his cell phone.

from wells report:

He didn't have to turn over his cell phone. all his side had to do was reproduce the relevant texts for the investigation.

they wouldn't do it.

And what relevant texts were those? If he was innocent there would be no relevant texts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Basically, I'm saying that you give him the fine whether he admits it or not. Then he can appeal the fine if he disagrees. Goodell is making this a spectacle like it's some kind of witch hunt. Either way, an employee (player) is about to be suspended four games for deflating a football while other employees (i.e. Greg Hardy) have been suspended the same number of games for beating a woman senseless enough to not even show up to a trial out of fear for retaliation). What in the actual F? If you (by you, I mean anyone) want to bring up the fact that Hardy's suspension became 4 games after he was honest and Brady's suspension could have been reduced as well if he was honest, I would make the assertion that this has become a farce based on that same premise. Just mean what you say the first time when giving a suspension. If it's going to be reduced based on appeal, it just seems flawed in logic. Either a player serves the suspension or they appeal, win, and the suspension is lifted. I'm tired of Goodell's games. He is tarnishing the shield.

This should have just been a fine anyway.

Give me a break on the Hardy thing. He was not suspended for 4 games. How many games did he miss last year also? Answer 15 so Hardy's suspension in total is 19 games. What Hardy did is of course despicable if it is as I understand it to be. However, Brady's
cheating as I understand it goes against the very integrity of the game. It puts a huge black eye on the NFL and all that the Patriots have accomplished.

This is actually quite embarrassing because I believed I had a solid comparison w/ regard to Greg Hardy and the number of games suspended. Can you tell me if all 15 games were due to suspension or a combination of injury as well? I certainly don't mind giving credit when losing an argument... and believe me, I enjoy a good debate.

My point on Brady stands, however. I believe that the transgression deserves a fine and suspension for repeated offenses. Goodell simply has too much power. He should not be in charge of the appeals process. He shouldn't be involved in it in any way. It's a conflict of interest.

He was probably on the Commissioner's exempt list, so he would have got paid for those 15 games, so technically the suspension is 4 games.