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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 9:47:23 AM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
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Play calling, esp with the lead late, has always been my biggest whine about this org
Forever
Yesterday was as bad as it has ever been, imo
How we still won despite that, I have NO idea
We basically just asked them to give us another heartbreaking defeat and they refused.
HORRIBLE late game play calling. They just don't seem to get the concept, imo.
Its maddening.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 9:56:44 AM

Mr. Ed

Posts: 88732
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline

Cannot have a mistake

cannot have an incompletion or a penalty that stops the clock

Pucker up offense with the human enema up the middle.

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Post #: 8027

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 9:59:46 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45017
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Play calling, esp with the lead late, has always been my biggest whine about this org
Forever
Yesterday was as bad as it has ever been, imo
How we still won despite that, I have NO idea
We basically just asked them to give us another heartbreaking defeat and they refused.
HORRIBLE late game play calling. They just don't seem to get the concept, imo.
Its maddening.

In a lot of ways Kendricks was every bit as responsible for that win as Cook. The dude was just all over the field making plays. That pass break up on Davante Adams was just freaking unbelievable.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 10:03:47 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Play calling, esp with the lead late, has always been my biggest whine about this org
Forever
Yesterday was as bad as it has ever been, imo
How we still won despite that, I have NO idea
We basically just asked them to give us another heartbreaking defeat and they refused.
HORRIBLE late game play calling. They just don't seem to get the concept, imo.
Its maddening.

In a lot of ways Kendricks was every bit as responsible for that win as Cook. The dude was just all over the field making plays. That pass break up on Davante Adams was just freaking unbelievable.

Yes he was awesome as well.

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Post #: 8029

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 10:17:13 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Play calling, esp with the lead late, has always been my biggest whine about this org
Forever
Yesterday was as bad as it has ever been, imo
How we still won despite that, I have NO idea
We basically just asked them to give us another heartbreaking defeat and they refused.
HORRIBLE late game play calling. They just don't seem to get the concept, imo.
Its maddening.

In a lot of ways Kendricks was every bit as responsible for that win as Cook. The dude was just all over the field making plays. That pass break up on Davante Adams was just freaking unbelievable.

He's still the most underrated defender in football.

I posted a couple years ago that, except for his size, he's pretty much the athletic equivalent of Barr and Khalil Mack.

Mack:
74.63 inches, 251 pounds, 33.5" arms.
40: 4.65
Bench: 23
Vertical: 40
Broad jump: 127"
20 yd shuttle: 4.18
3 cones: 7.08

Barr:
76.88 inches, 255 pounds, 33.25" arms.
40: 4.66
Bench: 15
Vertical: 34.5
Broad jump: 117"
20 yd shuttle: 4.19
3 cones: 6.82

Kendricks:
72.25 inches, 232 pounds, 31" arms.
40: 4.61
Bench: 19
Vertical: 38
Broad jump: 124"
20 yd shuttle: 4.14
3 cones: 7.14

Post #: 8030

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:06:00 AM

paulgly

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/13/2020
Status: offline

Let me preface this by saying I'm no huge Zim fan. Liked him right away, began to tire of him in 2016, was pissed as hell at the 2017 NFCCG showing. I think overall he's been an average to good coach, with some complete head-scratching losses.

I don't understand the complaints about yesterday. And some inconsistencies. I'm not calling out individual posters, but help me understand a few things:

1) Did you really want the game in Cousins hands yesterday given the conditions? The only play, IMO, that it was questionable not to throw was the final 3rd down when it was 3rd and long. I would have agreed with a run/pass option, but by no means when it was as windy as it was did I want Cousins flinging it on 3rd and long. An incomplete pass means there is 1:40 left vs. 50 seconds. And the way the weather was yesterday, that was HUGE. In a normal weather game, I could understand because 50 seconds vs. 1:40 doesn't mean as much then.

2) The 4th down conservative complaint I totally don't get. The most controversial moment of the season, and the one Zim got ripped for the most, was a 4th down go for it in Seattle. Which I still to this day 100% support. Because it was DEFINITELY playing to win. One yard, game over. I believe I read he's about league average in going for it on 4th.

Again, I'm not saying he deserves a statue or lifetime contract. But some of the arguments I see are all over the place. And yesterday was an exceptional situation where I thought was one of the better coached games I've seen in awhile, especially given the secondary depth. Some of the criticism seems unfair to me. Just my opinion.

Post #: 8031

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:09:31 AM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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I thought he had a pretty solid, albeit wind assisted, day coaching.

I also don't think he's going to win a lot of games with that plan.

Post #: 8032

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:14:53 AM

paulgly

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/13/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I thought he had a pretty solid, albeit wind assisted, day coaching.

I also don't think he's going to win a lot of games with that plan.

Oh totally agree. It's a fool's gold game to think you're gonna win that way consistently. I'm just saying given the circumstances, I didn't have many complaints.

He has a weird trend of piecing together some really solid gameplans (NO playoff game last year, SEA/GB this year) with some real s**t bombs. Sometimes his guys look like they wanna run through a wall, sometimes they look like they don't want to walk across the street. So perplexing.

Post #: 8033

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:24:29 AM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
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Either the defense was as good as it could have been, with the circumstances, or GB just played awful.
Can't tell you which, but I never once complained about the defense, who you're right, gets their direction from Zimmer.
That part of the day he did his job.
If he's not calling offensive plays or manipulating the offense, then my complaints aren't about him.
But I'm basing our thought process late in games on some influence he must have, because its consistent since he became the HC, imo.
I'd say easily a dozen games have been lost in his regime, because of the WAY we approach the late stages of games.
That's my opinion, based on what we have seen over and over again. I'd figure if he could change it he would.
His comments and his demeanor make it very clear that he is proud of some old-school mentality that pounding the ball will eventually make you a champion in this league, and I disagree with that. If you see different, good on you and I wish I could.
I just see us saddled with an "ok, that's enough to win, let's try to sit on this and run the clock out"
Once again, that's 1960's thinking that today, loses you more games than you will win.
Its what I feel and see late, if you don't, you are fortunate.
GB didn't suddenly come up with fresh defensive guys in the 4th quarter. They started stopping our run solely because they knew we'd run Dalvin in the same hole until the game ended. One way or another, that's all we were going to do.
It should have cost us another painful game yesterday, luckily it did not.
No one else sees up 28-14 with 6 minutes left, over and over and over again, and goes …… "we will be lucky to hang on to this"?
I find that hard to believe. its more mindset than anything imo.
Most of you guys are young. If I had the internet in the 70's I would have been saying the same thing, even in our glory days.
Bud Grant, everyones hero around here, had the same issues imo and I was always vocal about it.
Those years we were loaded with HOF players, and we ran the throttle at 3/4. I see it here lately too. Some special players, and we still run the offensive throttle at 3/4. Hasn't gotten us a ring yet. Didn't get Bud one either.
My complaint is being careful. Its a game. We're protecting nothing, you're being careful and STILL we're talking about taking your job. Open er up once inawhile. I said the same thing about QB, if you have one that you don't trust to let win you a game, then you've picked the wrong guy.
I get what you're saying about a nice win, loved it. But that style we played yesterday won't win most of the time in 2020, and the late game execution was as bad as it gets. Luckily our opponent left it lay there.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:27:49 AM

Mr. Ed

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From: Minne-so-ta
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Something other than fullback, Cook in the I, and a lead blocker in motion to the exact spot.

Something where the corner blitz is actually ineffective because you know they are run blitzing.

Doesn't have to be 20 yards downfield.

And if you don't trust Cousins, WTF did they agree to spend all that money?

Not saying he will save them in games. But it cannot be the human enema constantly when you have a lead.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:30:27 AM

Mr. Ed

Posts: 88732
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
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quote:

Some special players, and we still run the offensive throttle at 3/4. Hasn't gotten us a ring yet. Didn't get Bud one either.

2017 had to be a painful year to Zimmer, when they threw the ball all over the yard and made it to the NFC title game.

Imagine he and Shurmur clashed a few times that year.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:37:17 AM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
Status: offline

I guess I'm just tired, after 60 years, of our losses mostly being the painful type, and our wins being mostly the hang-on-for-dear-life type.
Something to bitch about every Monday.
You'd think we'd have lucked into a ring by now.
Feels like it will simply never happen.
When you can screw up '98, something's probably going on, that we cannot control or understand.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:49:10 AM

paulgly

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/13/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Something other than fullback, Cook in the I, and a lead blocker in motion to the exact spot.

Something where the corner blitz is actually ineffective because you know they are run blitzing.

Doesn't have to be 20 yards downfield.

And if you don't trust Cousins, WTF did they agree to spend all that money?

Not saying he will save them in games. But it cannot be the human enema constantly when you have a lead.

Couple things - and again to be clear, I'm well aware this game was an OUTLIER...

I don't think it was Zimmer's idea to spend all that money on Cousins. I'm sure he signed off on it, but isn't part of the coach's job to assess the current situation? Given Cousins' performance year to date, and the conditions, I just don't have a problem with the play calling. For what it's worth, that sweep on 3rd and long got I think 5 or 6 yards and took quite a bit off the clock because it was an outside run.

Keenum didn't really fling it all around the field in 2017. Cousins stats since he joined the Vikings, by any traditional or advanced metric, have been better. We threw FAR more in 2018 than we did in 2017, probably because we weren't playing from ahead as often. What Keenum did have was moxie, and in Zim's own words, 'big balls'.

I can't believe I'm defending Zimmer. I just think for this particular game, in these particular conditions, I thought he coached well.

Post #: 8038

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 11:58:49 AM

Mr. Ed

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From: Minne-so-ta
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It was a good formula for a win. It was fun beating the Packers.

Green Bay is embarrassed? Should be.

Look at what Julio Jones and Matt Ryan did.

Packers obviously not comfy attacking the same way. I suspect Detroit will be.

I also don't think Cousins throwing 14 times in a game will win many the rest of the way.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 12:00:33 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

It was a good formula for a win. It was fun beating the Packers.

Green Bay is embarrassed? Should be.

Look at what Julio Jones and Matt Ryan did.

Packers obviously not comfy attacking the same way. I suspect Detroit will be.

I also don't think Cousins throwing 14 times in a game will win many the rest of the way.

If it wasn't for the wind, the Pack would've shredded us through the air.

Post #: 8040

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 12:01:10 PM

Mr. Ed

Posts: 88732
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From: Minne-so-ta
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quote:

I'm sure he signed off on it, but isn't part of the coach's job to assess the current situation?

I would never have thought that. All those years I've followed football on all levels.

Sorry I'm so dumb.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 12:47:41 PM

SoMnFan

Posts: 94902
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Hilarious to hear people now saying "we'll be 6-5 in a couple weeks"

Man, that's like buying a big old covered wagon before the oxen are even born
Deep breaths people
TB exposed the GB issues. we used the tape

Hell, even Ron Johnson nailed the no-brainer changes yesterday with our coverages.
Our DBs took away the sidelines, forced things back inside.
The Great Rodgers worries about his stats, he wasn't forcing a thing yesterday. An interception, esp one for a TD, hurts him worse than any loss ever will. He's thinking too much right now and its costing them. We took advantage. That and the wind. We'll take it.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 12:58:37 PM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Hilarious to hear people now saying "we'll be 6-5 in a couple weeks"

Man, that's like buying a big old covered wagon before the oxen are even born
Deep breaths people
TB exposed the GB issues. we used the tape

Hell, even Ron Johnson nailed the no-brainer changes yesterday with our coverages.
Our DBs took away the sidelines, forced things back inside.
The Great Rodgers worries about his stats, he wasn't forcing a thing yesterday. An interception, esp one for a TD, hurts him worse than any loss ever will. He's thinking too much right now and its costing them. We took advantage. That and the wind. We'll take it.

I believe the wind had as much to do with our pass defense as anything. On a good day, with those DB's, he puts up 500 yds, easy. I don't care what Zim's calling.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 5:12:17 PM

Steve Lentz

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From: Omaha
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Screw the wind.
Cook was as dominate a RB in that game as I've seen this year.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 6:19:36 PM

McMurfy

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From: Portland, Oregon
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My Viking Fandom peaked probably in the 1st Moss era.
Since then I like them less and less very year.
Now I like them less and less every week.
WhenI want them to lose, they win.

< Message edited by McMurfy -- 11/3/2020 7:00:43 AM >

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 9:12:13 PM

SoMnFan

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God I love watching Tom Brady
And Gronk.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 9:15:44 PM

SoMnFan

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93 TDS. For that duo.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/2/2020 10:21:26 PM

SoMnFan

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Winfield makes the play
Ho hum
Kids a stud

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/3/2020 6:17:22 AM

Mr. Ed

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Can't believe the game was that close

Vegas did well this weekend.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 11/3/2020 7:15:43 AM

SoMnFan

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TB becoming one of those teams, they'll have nights where they play badly, but will still win.
Kinda like NE used to be
Hmmm.

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