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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 12:39:27 PM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

@mattkardos
@1500ESPNJudd talked to Manager Jeff Smith after game. Said Berrios is fine. Felt tightness and took him out as precautionary measure #Twins

Why don't I feel any better?

Because history dictates he will have his arm amputated in September.

Too soon. They will wait until February to effect as much of next season as possible.

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Post #: 876

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 12:55:20 PM

twinsfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

@mattkardos
@1500ESPNJudd talked to Manager Jeff Smith after game. Said Berrios is fine. Felt tightness and took him out as precautionary measure #Twins

Why don't I feel any better?

Because history dictates he will have his arm amputated in September.

Too soon. They will wait until February to effect as much of next season as possible.

Pretty sure arm amputations are permanent.

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Post #: 877

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 12:58:15 PM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

@mattkardos
@1500ESPNJudd talked to Manager Jeff Smith after game. Said Berrios is fine. Felt tightness and took him out as precautionary measure #Twins

Why don't I feel any better?

Because history dictates he will have his arm amputated in September.

Too soon. They will wait until February to effect as much of next season as possible.

Pretty sure arm amputations are permanent.

Good observation.

I would say that they will operate on his Labrum a week before ST next spring.

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Post #: 878

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 1:05:22 PM

ewen21

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The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. After all, we were told the Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006, besides Gibson, not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. Where are they now?

Post #: 879

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 1:28:43 PM

twinsfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. After all, we were told the Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006, besides Gibson, not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. Where are they now?

Really?

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Post #: 880

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 1:44:57 PM

Mr. Ed

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Guess we need to venture past AAA for bullpenguys. They blew chunks and gaveup 5 runs late to lose 8-6

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Post #: 881

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 1:55:20 PM

Mr. Ed

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Seth Stohs @SethTweets · 3h
Morning update on JO Berrios is that he says he feels fine, no pain, no tightness in his shoulder. No further medical evaluation planned.

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Post #: 882

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 1:55:47 PM

Mr. Ed

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Parker Hageman @ParkerHageman · 3h
Bids on non-drafted pitcher Brandon Poulson:

Yankees $100K
Phillies $150K
A's $105K
Giants $138K
#MNTwins $225K

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Post #: 883

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 2:20:24 PM

MDK

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http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/269141081.html

I don't care if this works out or doesn't but finding a kid who can throw 100 mph.....not a kid anymore....

Could be a Disney movie some day like the Rookie.

Hope it works out.......

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Post #: 884

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 2:50:19 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. After all, we were told the Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006, besides Gibson, not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. Where are they now?

Umm, the Twins have not had nearly the level of prospects in their system over the last 10 years or so as they do now. In fact, the Twins have NEVER had a system even close to as good as it is now. And again, these aren't just "Twins' evaluations. They're universal in baseball. 6 of the top 50.

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Post #: 885

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 2:52:02 PM

djskillz

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I'm worried about Berrios still. Kid is supposed to be an ultra competitor/hard working type with a crazy family support system. I don't want him to "play through it" just because he feels pressure to succeed "now". He's REALLY young; take your time kid.

Good stuff on May/Hicks, Ed. Agreed.

Thorpe is a beast. Good to see him getting the k's going. He's the next great pitching prospect coming. Will probably be in the top 50 prospects himself (or MUCH higher) in the next year or so.

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Post #: 886

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 3:11:34 PM

Mr. Ed

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Per @RocRedWings, Trevor May 5-0 with a 0.22 ERA (1 ER/41.0 IP) in past 5 home starts. #MNTwins

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Post #: 887

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 3:20:24 PM

CPAMAN

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. After all, we were told the Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006, besides Gibson, not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. Where are they now?

Umm, the Twins have not had nearly the level of prospects in their system over the last 10 years or so as they do now. In fact, the Twins have NEVER had a system even close to as good as it is now. And again, these aren't just "Twins' evaluations. They're universal in baseball. 6 of the top 50.

I don't care who evaluates the Twins prospects. I don't care if it is the universal baseball league from 100,000 light years away. The Twins prospects generally suck. No, they do suck. Remove the word generally.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 3:21:11 PM

CPAMAN

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And Hicks sucks BTW.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 3:22:52 PM

Mr. Ed

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

And Hicks sucks BTW.

Nope. He's excelling at AA.

He's destined to re-try AAA.

Hopefully the bigs when management has changed.

That's the hope we should have for that kid.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 3:45:37 PM

MDK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

And Hicks sucks BTW.

Nope. He's excelling at AA.

He's destined to re-try AAA.

Hopefully the bigs when management has changed.

That's the hope we should have for that kid.

Gardy and Anderson cannot evaluate players

Evidence item 1: The decision to keep Gibson and send down Diamond was a very difficult decision for them this spring.

Gardy and Anderson cannot help players improve
Evidence item 2 and counting:
Ortiz
Gomez
Liriano
Vanimal
Dickey
Hardy
Wilson
Hicks
Dozier......i put him on the list....he got better in spite of Gardy
.............

The list gets longer and longer on how many players development has been stifled once they get under Gardy's control and Anderson's control for pitchers.

Does anyone really want Gardy and Anderson and the other minions like Ullger and Vavra getting their mitts on:
Buxton
Sano
Rosario
Stewart
May
Meyer
Barrios
.............

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Post #: 891

RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 4:27:51 PM

ewen21

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. After all, we were told the Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006, besides Gibson, not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. Where are they now?

Umm, the Twins have not had nearly the level of prospects in their system over the last 10 years or so as they do now. In fact, the Twins have NEVER had a system even close to as good as it is now. And again, these aren't just "Twins' evaluations. They're universal in baseball. 6 of the top 50.

Dustin, that is only part of a post I made elsewhere. You can disagree if you like but when you start disagreeing with facts you lose me:

Based on my years of experience following this, and the mountains of data supporting it, my enthusiasm about prospects is a lot lower than your average Twins fan. I would say Twins fans generally overstate the value of prospects as compared to most other fans. A lot of it is pie in the sky fairy dust. It's stuff to talk about. Something to pin your hopes on but I don't get too crazy over it until guys start getting close. Many of our guys aren't even close yet. Go to Twins Daily and check out what those guys write about prospects. IN reality, the odds of a first round pick even making it to the majors is 66% percent:
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index10.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1219356-examining-the-percentage-of-mlb-draft-picks-that-reach-the-major-leagues/page/2

Only about 10% of minor league players end up playing a single game in the majors.

The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. Afterall, I was tolkd Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006 not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. WHere are they now?

For me, there is NO WAY to predict pitching anymore. I see Berrios had to be taken out of yesterday's game with a sore arm. Who is Kohl Stewart? He was drafted high a year ago. HE is 19 and just recently had an MRI. May projects more as a reliever than a starter. For all we hear about Meyer his numbers in AAA aren't all that impressive. He has a fastball but is still trying to develop a repertoire of pitches that would make him major league quality. And remember, he was dealt for Denard Span. How much do you think Washington's GM was going to give up for a mid-level CF like Span? I think a lot of the excitement surrounding Meyer has centered on his velocity and his size. He is so different from what we are used to seeing that people got excited. I am growing less and less excited about this guy.

I'm sorry, but when it comes to prospects they have to show me. For me the prospects that HAVE TO pan out are the STARTING PITCHERS.

For GOD's sake.....is it against the f'kn law for this franchise to raise good starting pitching?? If they cannot do that then talent like Sano, Buxton, etc....will be wasted. I still am not so sure what kind of hitters these two guys are going to be. Are we too in love with Buxton's "tools"? I don't see the offense yet with him. With Sano, is he going to be a Mark Reynolds feast or famine type? Will he even survive the "Twins way" of doing things?

I'm skeptical. With regards to prospects I say prove it. I am saying they can't be great. I'm just going with the historical data.

To me prospects are nothing but assets. The Twins go bananas over their prospects and view all of them as being untradeable and that will forever be an issue, imo

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 4:34:31 PM

ewen21

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How about this one, MDK.......something wrote to KFAN this morning:
It was nice to see Gibson pitch well last night, but it is also worth noting that since Matt Garza was called up in 2006 there isn't a starting pitcher raised by this team that is starting in the majors aside from Kyle Gibson. Now just let that sink in for a moment..... There are no Twins farmhands (since Garza was called up in '06) starting right now in the majoors. Add to that the fact that pitchers who were branded with "character issues" or as "headcases" went on and succeeded elsewhere as starters. Loshe and Garza were cast off (and that's fine if you can replace them) but the guys they thought were so precious and wouldn't trade at the deadline in '06 (Slowey, Blackurn, Baker) are nowhere to be found. As it turns out, the guys they didn't like turned out to be a lot better than the guys they liked in the long run.

This is DYNAMIC inteptitude

The bolded part is fascinating. It is even an opinion. Look at what Lohse and Garza have done this year. Remember how Lohse started off with a lot of promise and then went to shit? The memorable blow up on Gardy? Remember how the Twins wondered about Garza's character and work ethic? They were more taken with guys like Baker, Slowey and (Gardy's guy) Blackburn. Funny how it turns out. Just another in a million examples of the Twins inferior talent evaluation.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 4:54:33 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: ewen21

The chances of our bushel of "hot prospects" panning out at a 50% rate would be extremely exceptional, imo. After all, we were told the Twins had a treasure trove of young pitching about a decade ago. Since Matt Garza arrived in 2006, besides Gibson, not a single Twins farmhand has stuck in the majors as a starting pitcher. Not one. And if you remember the Twins did not want to "Mortgage the future" in 2006 at the trade deadline. If you remember the best Terry Ryan could do was sign Phil Nevin to help out for the stretch drive during that incredible run. I was thoroughly disappointed because the Twins kept saying....prospects......prospects.....prospects. Where are they now?

Umm, the Twins have not had nearly the level of prospects in their system over the last 10 years or so as they do now. In fact, the Twins have NEVER had a system even close to as good as it is now. And again, these aren't just "Twins' evaluations. They're universal in baseball. 6 of the top 50.

Not since the Calvin Griffth era anyways.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 5:05:17 PM

SoMnFan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

And Hicks sucks BTW.

Nope. He's excelling at AA.

He's destined to re-try AAA.

Hopefully the bigs when management has changed.

That's the hope we should have for that kid.

This
Why quit on someone with tools?

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 5:44:43 PM

djskillz

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Ewen, if you don't fully believe in a guy like Buxton, then we really can't have a meaningful discussion on prospects. He's the best prospect in the sport and the best prospect many (including myself) have ever seen. Yes, only about 10% of minor leaguers pan out. But a much larger percentage of "top 50" prospects that are at middle to higher levels pan out. Much higher. Not all of these guys will pan out of course. But many of them will. And again, this is by far the best group of prospects the Twins have ever had. It's not even close really. And it's not some conspiracy theory from MLB talent evaluators that they're ranked that high. They're ranked that high for a reason.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 7/30/2014 5:47:19 PM >

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 5:50:48 PM

twinsfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Ewen, if you don't fully believe in a guy like Buxton, then we really can't have a meaningful discussion on prospects. He's the best prospect in the sport and the best prospect many (including myself) have ever seen. Yes, only about 10% of minor leaguers pan out. But a much larger percentage of "top 50" prospects that are at middle to higher levels pan out. Much higher. Not all of these guys will pan out of course. But many of them will. And again, this is by far the best group of prospects the Twins have ever had. It's not even close really. And it's not some conspiracy theory from MLB talent evaluators that they're ranked that high. They're ranked that high for a reason.

Kris Bryant is actually baseball's #1 prospect now. But that's splitting hairs. Buxton is #2. Let's hope he doesn't fall any further.

< Message edited by twinsfan -- 7/30/2014 5:51:58 PM >

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 5:55:03 PM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Ewen, if you don't fully believe in a guy like Buxton, then we really can't have a meaningful discussion on prospects. He's the best prospect in the sport and the best prospect many (including myself) have ever seen. Yes, only about 10% of minor leaguers pan out. But a much larger percentage of "top 50" prospects that are at middle to higher levels pan out. Much higher. Not all of these guys will pan out of course. But many of them will. And again, this is by far the best group of prospects the Twins have ever had. It's not even close really. And it's not some conspiracy theory from MLB talent evaluators that they're ranked that high. They're ranked that high for a reason.

Kris Bryant is actually baseball's #1 prospect now. But that's splitting hairs. Buxton is #2. Let's hope he doesn't fall any further.

According to some. ONLY because of injury. There's no question in any circle of scouts who's ceiling is higher, just because of position and overall tools. ie a "healthy" Buxton is #1 and it's not even really close for most.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 6:17:16 PM

Stacey King

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Bryant is good but there is no prospect in the minors I'd trade Buxton for.

He is at the head of the class.

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RE: Players and prospects III - 7/30/2014 6:20:44 PM

twinsfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stacey King

Bryant is good but there is no prospect in the minors I'd trade Buxton for.

He is at the head of the class.

Oscar Taveras has been a huge bust so far.

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