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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 11:48:33 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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because he left the game with a concussion, i would never write that i was happy that kyler murray was replaced by carson wentz...so i'm going to use this moment to not make a post on this site....

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Post #: 51
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 11:56:59 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

That's a bad look, but can you imagine how brutal those meeting are with KOC?

Next, let's break down 20% of play #88, the 'X Go Slant Bravo Ringo V Check 9 Reverse' portion. And as an added bonus, we'll again have lunch deskside!

Murray looks at his watch.

JJM says let's modify that play because he "saw something".

Wentz is at a two-martini lunch downtown.

.
i read that peter dinklage played some peewee ball a few years back...wonder if he's available?

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Post #: 52
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 12:54:19 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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From ESPN:


I think ... Ben Johnson is Brian Flores' kryptonite

Two heinous crimes were committed Sunday by two of football nerddom's favorite coaches.

Let's start with Johnson. The Bears scored 59 points against the Panthers, which is like if you scored 50 points, and then decided to score nine more points. Both running backs D'Andre Swift and Kyle Monangai reached 100 yards and scored two touchdowns, and quarterback Caleb Williams added another two scores on scrambles of his own. And for those tracking Williams' accuracy metrics: 72.4% completion percentage with an off-target rate of only 13.8%.

Everything worked for the Bears' offense, which barely left first gear against the Panthers. The Bears will face far stiffer competition in Week 2 against the Vikings and Flores, who rendered an unbelievable performance against the Packers in Week 1.

The Vikings blitzed Jordan Love on 73.8% of his dropbacks Sunday -- the highest rate at which any quarterback has been blitzed since the 2023 season. The Packers were in a difficult position entering the game; starting left guard Aaron Banks was hurt, and the camp campaign to build up Anthony Belton at the starting right guard spot was abandoned late in the process. The Packers fielded 2024 fifth-round pick Jacob Monk at right guard and 2024 undrafted free agent Donovan Jennings at left guard. It was Jennings' first career start and Monk's second.

In an effort to insulate the young guards, the Packers kept more players in to block than basically any offense over the past few seasons. Love had three or fewer receivers in the route concept on an astonishing 15 dropbacks. Only three quarterbacks have had more such dropbacks over the past five seasons.

Flores has little interest in occupying those routes with multiple defenders -- he'd rather throw bodies against the wall of your pass protection and find a weak point. Like water against a dam, it didn't really matter how many players the Packers kept in to protect -- if there was a weak point (which there often was), Flores had a rusher in that spot. His distinctive approach to early-down blitzing breaks the rules. It forces opposing offenses to play a different sport than the one for which they're prepared against other opponents.

But Johnson knows Flores well. He called offense against him as the coordinator of the Lions -- twice in 2023, twice in 2024 -- then picked up another two games in 2025 as the head coach of the Bears. Across six matchups, Johnson's team is 5-1 -- the only loss was last season's opener and Williams' first start in Johnson's offense. Over those six games, Johnson's offense doesn't look like a 59-point monster ... but it's clearly better than the average offense against the marauding Vikings coordinator.

Offenses vs. Flores' defense, 2023-26
All teams Johnson's teams
(Six games)
EPA per play minus-0.04 0.07
Success rate 41.8% 45.9%
Points per drive 1.77 2.32
Explosive pass
rate 12.7% 15.3%
First down +
touchdown rate 27.8% 36.9%

So what does Johnson do that other teams can't replicate? A few things stick out. The first is communication. Flores' defense requires as much pre-snap coordination between 11 players as any in football -- that's why Harrison Smith is back and so valuable. He can be the coach on the field, changing the playcall after the defense sees the formation.

Johnson rises to meet Flores. His offense is as communication-heavy as any in the league, and his group is empowered to make adjustments based on what it sees. Flores wants to get opposing offenses stuck in a bad protection look or run call; Johnson's groups are elite at getting out of such sticky wickets. Williams' pre-snap command, which has reportedly taken big strides through Year 1 and into Year 2 with Johnson, will be tested here.

To challenge Flores' reliance on communication, Johnson will randomly snap the football quickly -- no motion, no checking. Immediate snaps. The Bears had 19 quick snaps against the Vikings in Week 11 -- snaps in which less than two seconds elapse between the line getting set and the ball being snapped. It was the most they had in any game last season, according to NFL Next Gen Stats. Second most? The 17 such snaps in Week 1 ... also against Flores.

The second thing that sticks out is formational. The Lions loved condensed sets under Johnson, and the Bears have continued that approach. Condensed sets are typically a bad idea against blitz-heavy teams. When you spread out the field, it's easier to identify suspicious defensive alignment that reveals who's blitzing from where. Against Flores and the Vikings, there's no point in trying to riddle things out -- the blitzes are too frequent and too varied. You'll think you're right, you'll actually be wrong, and then you'll be dead in the water.

So Johnson turns into the skid. He gets as condensed as possible against Flores. In 2025, no offense had more condensed formations in any game than the Bears in Week 11 against the Vikings, with an average formational width of only 17.7 yards. Teeny tiny formations allow Johnson to throw the ball on out-breakers into a ton of space, to stress the Vikings' cornerbacks who are typically insulated by trap coverages and quick throws. It also allows Johnson to meet Flores' duplicity and disguise with the beautiful simplicity of the running game. With lighter players such as Joshua Metellus and Dallas Turner on the edge against double-teams from extra tight ends and condensed wide receivers, the Bears can grind out physical yardage and set up the play-action pass.

Does Flores have an answer to this approach? Yes ... but not on the chalkboard. The Vikings' first three picks in the 2026 draft were trench picks: defensive tackle Caleb Banks in the first round, on/off-ball linebacker hybrid Jake Golday in the second round and another defensive tackle in the third round in space-gobbler Domonique Orange. Any defense that plays in a division with the Bears needs to be serious about its run defense -- doubly true for Flores, who will never get to third-and-long against Chicago unless he has some run-stuffing hog mollies up front to slow down Swift and Monangai.

Johnson won Assistant Coach of the Year in 2024. Second place in voting was Flores. When Flores was a young defensive assistant cutting his teeth in New England, Johnson was doing the same in Miami on offense -- twice a year, they saw each other. These two have circled their matchups like heavyweight fighters for years now, and on Sunday, we get another 90-minute dance in the ring. Bring your popcorn.
Post #: 53
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 2:00:54 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Again, I like him as a culture building HC, but we have to honest, he appears to stink as an OC/playcaller. It is what it is. We are winning games because of the D. I do agree that he's better in the 2nd half and he has a knack for pulling wins out of is A&&. That's why I would really like him to do a Chargers thing and bring in a new OC with fresh ideas or to collaborate.


It's job security. What would he then do? Be in charge of clock management and timeouts? Heck, he'd be fired after one game.

It would be like one of the two Bob's in The Office movie saying "What would you say... you do here?"



I totally understand this line of thinking and, quite frankly, get it to some point. I just never think this team, under him, quits. He also gets a lot out of retread QB's (as far as wins). I just think that's starting to be absurd to consider him some sort of QB guru. You can't use that moniker when you're on your 50th guy in 5 years. ...

He's also not a gameday savant but I think he's gotten better over the years. That said, he does WIN and there's something to that. I heard a show the other day that he is a "culture building coach". I do agree with that to some extent. This team competes almost every game despite some really head scratching gameplans. That's why I would to see him bring in some to run the offense and not some lacky. Proabably a pipe dream though
Post #: 54
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 2:48:39 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Again, I like him as a culture building HC, but we have to honest, he appears to stink as an OC/playcaller. It is what it is. We are winning games because of the D. I do agree that he's better in the 2nd half and he has a knack for pulling wins out of is A&&. That's why I would really like him to do a Chargers thing and bring in a new OC with fresh ideas or to collaborate.


It's job security. What would he then do? Be in charge of clock management and timeouts? Heck, he'd be fired after one game.

It would be like one of the two Bob's in The Office movie saying "What would you say... you do here?"



I totally understand this line of thinking and, quite frankly, get it to some point. I just never think this team, under him, quits. He also gets a lot out of retread QB's (as far as wins). I just think that's starting to be absurd to consider him some sort of QB guru. You can't use that moniker when you're on your 50th guy in 5 years. ...

He's also not a gameday savant but I think he's gotten better over the years. That said, he does WIN and there's something to that. I heard a show the other day that he is a "culture building coach". I do agree with that to some extent. This team competes almost every game despite some really head scratching gameplans. That's why I would to see him bring in some to run the offense and not some lacky. Proabably a pipe dream though


I have to agree here. It seems the players all love him and the team doesn't give up.
Post #: 55
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 3:14:38 PM   
Lars


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Murray's performance on Sunday is a perfect example of what we should expect from him. I have ZERO interest in him as our QB.

Wentz. Same thing. He is OK, but slow and misses some easy shots.

We aren't going anywhere in the season/post season with either of these QBs. Period. Full stop. We know what they are.

I know JJM has issues we have all seen, but we don't know his upside. Why not play him and see if there is something there?

PS - no to Milton and Levis. Barf.

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Post #: 56
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 3:58:24 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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I know JJM has issues we have all seen, but we don't know his upside. Why not play him and see if there is something there?

Assuming he even has upside; so far it is not there. They played him a month ago and there wasn't anything there.

After an offseason of BS about him possibly starting or even being #2, he is where he should be. A #3 boom/bust developmental clipboard holder. A lot would have to go wrong with Murray and Wentz, along with probably losing a lot of games, before he gets a shot. He could do well, stranger things have happened, but that won't be enough to convince Teasley he is the long-term answer.

In that scenario, he would be the last of these three QBs standing unless relic Wentz gives it another go. But next year he is not going to get a free ride. If the GM, scouts, etc do their job and have a bit of luck, JJM will be right back at #3... or battling some other boom/bust type for a roster spot.
Post #: 57
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 4:17:19 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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17. Minnesota Vikings (1-0)
Week 1 result: Beat the Packers 39-22
Preseason ranking: 22

Non-QB newcomer debut: NT Domonique Orange

A third-round pick from Iowa State, Orange made a key play in Sunday's comeback victory. With 13:17 remaining, the Packers decided to take a field goal off the board after a Vikings penalty and go for it on fourth-and-1. Quarterback Jordan Love checked into a sneak play, but Orange -- known by the nickname "Big Citrus" -- fought off center Sean Rhyan and stuffed Love for no gain. "If I was a quarterback," Orange told reporters afterward, "I'd try that, too. But they don't know about Big Citrus yet." -- Kevin Seifert
Post #: 58
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 4:26:40 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

17. Minnesota Vikings (1-0)
Week 1 result: Beat the Packers 39-22
Preseason ranking: 22

Non-QB newcomer debut: NT Domonique Orange

A third-round pick from Iowa State, Orange made a key play in Sunday's comeback victory. With 13:17 remaining, the Packers decided to take a field goal off the board after a Vikings penalty and go for it on fourth-and-1. Quarterback Jordan Love checked into a sneak play, but Orange -- known by the nickname "Big Citrus" -- fought off center Sean Rhyan and stuffed Love for no gain. "If I was a quarterback," Orange told reporters afterward, "I'd try that, too. But they don't know about Big Citrus yet." -- Kevin Seifert


Gotta love Power Rankings. We're 3 spots below the team we just beat 39-22.

Giants are 2 spots below the Cowboys.

Raiders dropped fom 27 to 28, while Miami rose from 32 to 31.
Post #: 59
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 4:46:06 PM   
marty


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Bill, that article was amazing.

Flores and Johnson are both top of the line DC and OCs.

Johnson always seems to be 1 step ahead of Flores, but has also benefitted from strong RBs in Gibbs and Montgomery, and now a great QB in Williams.

I wonder if Johnson would have the same record against Flores if BFlo had some really good DTs, along with a #1 CB like Stephon Gilmore, but in his prime, and maybe a stud LBer in the middle, or what he has now in Turner.

< Message edited by marty -- 9/15/2026 4:47:13 PM >


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Post #: 60
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 4:52:14 PM   
marty


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People here are downplaying the Packers. The Packers were picked by most "experts" to win the division.

Love is the 2nd best QB in the division, he is just a tad behind Caleb Williams, who has now surpassed him, thanks to Ben Johnson.

The Packers lack a #1 RB because Josh Jacobs isn't playing. Their HC might lack some things in close 4th quarter games, and maybe Love does as well.

The Packers were also missing a big piece of their defense with Parsons out, and the Vikings now have their own version of Parsons with Turner.

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Post #: 61
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 5:31:26 PM   
David Levine


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The Detroit Lions were widely predicted by sportsbooks, analysts, and major outlets like The Athletic and ESPN to win the NFC North heading into the 2026 NFL season.
Post #: 62
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 5:33:13 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

People here are downplaying the Packers. The Packers were picked by most "experts" to win the division.

Love is the 2nd best QB in the division, he is just a tad behind Caleb Williams, who has now surpassed him, thanks to Ben Johnson.

The Packers lack a #1 RB because Josh Jacobs isn't playing. Their HC might lack some things in close 4th quarter games, and maybe Love does as well.

The Packers were also missing a big piece of their defense with Parsons out, and the Vikings now have their own version of Parsons with Turner.


They have lost 6 in a row dating back to last year.....they are also w/o Jacobs and Parsons for a while. 2 of their top 5 players plus two o lineman that played Sunday have knee injuries going into the game (Banks and the RT)

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/15/2026 7:14:50 PM >


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Post #: 63
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 10:23:54 PM   
tbz

 

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I saw an analyst on ESPN (can't remember which one) picked Jordon Love to end up being this seasons MVP. The other two guys on the show, to their credit just laughed.
Post #: 64
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2026 10:24:13 PM   
marty


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The Lions were only a slight favorite, the Packers a close 2nd to win the division when the odds opened up, and several major writers and commentators on national syndicates were picking the Packers before the Josh Jacobs story started to become more of a story.


2026 NFC North Opening OddsDetroit Lions: +170 Green Bay Packers: +260vChicago Bears: +370 (some books opened near +342)Minnesota Vikings: +450 to +500 [1] (https://blog.btasports.io/2026-nfl-nfc-north-odds-division-to-be-one-of-leagues-closest/), [2] (https://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/nfc-north/), [3] (https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/futures/divisional-odds/)

Yahoo Sports / Regional Syndicates: While main national writers leaned toward Detroit or Chicago, custom game-by-game projections syndicated by Yahoo Sports mapped out a 12-5 record for the Packers, selecting them to sweep their final home stand and secure the NFC North title

I was surprised at the time, as I liked the Bears as a favorite, the Vikings a close 2nd, I didn't like the Lions or Packers to win the division. The Josh Jacobs story created a nice schism for the Pack, hopefully that continues to be the case.

< Message edited by marty -- 9/16/2026 2:24:59 AM >


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Post #: 65
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 12:51:42 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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we slipped three ranking spots after a 17 point victory....


NFL.com — 22nd (last week: 19th)

Key excerpt: “The Vikings found a way to turn what was trending toward an ugly, disheartening season opener into a 17-point triumph. The result still seems absurd to me, given that the Packers led by 12 points late in the third quarter, but Brian Flores’ defense (along with some penalties by the opposition) can swing a game that quickly.“

Writer’s note: Going DOWN in the rankings and still behind the Packers? Shirley, you can not be serious.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 12:54:15 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Murray's performance on Sunday is a perfect example of what we should expect from him. I have ZERO interest in him as our QB.

Wentz. Same thing. He is OK, but slow and misses some easy shots.

We aren't going anywhere in the season/post season with either of these QBs. Period. Full stop. We know what they are.

I know JJM has issues we have all seen, but we don't know his upside. Why not play him and see if there is something there?



PS - no to Milton and Levis. Barf.





i completely agree with this - developing mccarthy is the smart play this season....

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Post #: 67
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 2:27:39 AM   
marty


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I agree with developing McCarthy would be the way to go.

At least McCarthy has the strength to make strong throws, teaching a QB to take something off a pass should be one of the easier things to teach.

Getting McCarthy to properly plant his feet most of the time also shouldn't be too difficult.

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Post #: 68
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 2:31:30 AM   
marty


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I am not sure a prime Wentz could have ever gone on a playoff run, and won the Super Bowl, his non-ability to move around in the pocket, probably means lots of injuries, sacks, and the ball getting knocked loose.

But then again, I didn't think Darnold would ever win a Super Bowl, so in the right situation, who knows.

At the same time, I haven't totally given up on Murray, but he is off to a pretty poor start in Minnesota.

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Post #: 69
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 4:27:08 AM   
marty


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I wonder what the 4th quarter QB rankings for Viking QBs has been under KOC ?

Also, what are the 4th quarter QB rankings for opposing teams while BFlo has been DC for the Vikings?

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Post #: 70
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 5:57:16 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I agree with developing McCarthy would be the way to go.

At least McCarthy has the strength to make strong throws, teaching a QB to take something off a pass should be one of the easier things to teach.

Getting McCarthy to properly plant his feet most of the time also shouldn't be too difficult.

There are more issues than the planting of the feet. He was demoted to third string for maturity reasons also.

I have also seen many of our qbs suck the first game and turn it around. The whole qb room needs a lot of work. Long season and a whole lot already happened in week one and preseason.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/16/2026 6:00:16 AM >


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Post #: 71
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 7:07:28 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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You’re only going to play JJM over the other two if you’re willing to toss in the season already. As low as my expectations for Murray Wentz are, it’s way too premature for that. I get the hope for uncovering the unseen and possible, but his performance in practice and briefly in games simply isn’t close to justifying him over the other two … he has outright earned the #3 spot.

Yeah, there’s always a chance. JJM has flashed some things … we’re playing the Bears this week, JJMs high point from last year. You can always say, ‘you never know, he could be more than what you’re seeing now’. OK but you’d be chasing projections from the pre-draft process 3 years ago and just a few plays from last year. His inability to stay healthy by itself, which was not calculated in his drafting, makes the gamble pretty iffy at best.

I would still scratch and claw with this team as is. Average run of the mill jouneyman veteran QBs at least give the rest of the team a chance to do their part and feel we are playing for this coming Sunday and for this season.

Everybody on the team gets investing in and playing a rookie hopeful and being a little patient with that. At this point, having put yourself in a bad position that you have to go back to JJM because, you want to double-check if there’s something there?

That won’t go over well.
Post #: 72
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 7:47:19 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Murray's performance on Sunday is a perfect example of what we should expect from him. I have ZERO interest in him as our QB.

Wentz. Same thing. He is OK, but slow and misses some easy shots.

We aren't going anywhere in the season/post season with either of these QBs. Period. Full stop. We know what they are.

I know JJM has issues we have all seen, but we don't know his upside. Why not play him and see if there is something there?



PS - no to Milton and Levis. Barf.





i completely agree with this - developing mccarthy is the smart play this season....

McCarthy kind of lost me when he pulled himself out of starting the last PS game. There's something off about this dude.

But he will definitely get his chance real soon. Wentz is a hit away from needing season ending surgery.

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Post #: 73
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 8:16:06 AM   
Todd M

 

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Reading about Banks and his slow start.

Turner didn't flash immediately either and look at him now.
Post #: 74
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/16/2026 8:32:03 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I agree with developing McCarthy would be the way to go. Develop him how? Again, during the season there is no time between games for tutoring or individualized attention.

At least McCarthy has the strength to make strong throws, teaching a QB to take something off a pass should be one of the easier things to teach. Three years in and they haven't been able to.

Getting McCarthy to properly plant his feet most of the time also shouldn't be too difficult. Three years in and they haven't been able to.
Post #: 75
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