quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

not terribly unexpected, but at least it wasnt embarrassing.

to me, it felt like the keenum year...fun, but not enough to win it all, so just enjoy the run...enjoy the wins, the catch, etc...

defense was too much of a liability for me to buy in all year.

keenum year without a minneapolis miracle

I certainly try to tell myself just enjoy it, it's not a big deal, but man really frustrating to see other organization who haven't won a Super Bowl building towards giving themselves chances like Cincy and Jax. Hell, I even love the young team Detroit has.

Just really depressing this team has never won a Super Bowl, and doesn't really seem they are on a path to building one at the moment. In fact things may need to get worse for a year or 2, before they get better

The problem starts at the top. Are the Wilf's willing to do what necessary?

Or are they satisfied with just being competitive but fizzling out every year?

By continuing to trot Kirk out there I'm going with the latter.

???
I saw a tweet about what Drew Brews did with bottom 4 defenses versus top 10 defenses. What the team did with its limitations this year was amazing.

Tear the defense down and include Thielen and Cook in that tear down. You have 2 OT, JJeff, and TJ which is too much young talent to go in full rebuild mode. JJeff is generational and TJ isn't far behind.

Come on Phil. This team is going nowhere with Kirk. Him continuing to qb the Vikings is just a monumental waste of time. Yes I know the defense sucks. However this team is spinning its wheels until hes gone.

You are going to problem number 15 if not 20 on the list of this years issues...we are a 5 win team w/o Kirk this year.

Kirk will be here next year. The #1 issue is the 31st ranked defense but you can keep hammering on Kirk...[sm=Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif]

quote:

The Vikings finished the season as the league's 27th-ranked pass defense by QBR, and diagnosing their problems is a chicken-or-egg issue. The pass rush had stretches of dominance, but Za'Darius Smith faded badly as the season went along, racking up 8.5 sacks across his first seven games and just 1.5 more over the ensuing 10. The defense ranked 30th in pressure rate, ahead of only a pair of salary cap-strapped teams -- the Bears and Falcons.

When Ed Donatell's defense didn't get home with pressure, it allowed an average of 8.3 yards per pass attempt, which ranked 30th. Veteran corner Patrick Peterson posted a 65.0 passer rating as the nearest defender in coverage, so he wasn't the one often at fault. Cameron Dantzler began the season in the other cornerback spot before being benched at midseason. Andrew Booth started a game before hitting injured reserve, at which point the Vikings turned to Duke Shelley, who was cut by the Bears in August. Shelley posted a 55.0 passer rating in coverage.

Slot cornerback Chandon Sullivan allowed a passer rating of 111.1 in coverage this season, according to Pro Football Reference, and the Giants picked the slot clean for conversions Sunday. Jones was 10 of 12 for 95 yards and five first downs targeting slot receivers, throwing to four different receivers on his conversions. Minnesota allowed 8.9 yards per attempt on throws to the slot this season, the fourth most of any team.

As they enter the offseason, a Minnesota team that won an unexpected division title doesn't have a clear path of progression. Does it trust its record and believe it's a couple of players away from contending for a conference championship? Point differential suggests the Vikings were a .500 team, while DVOA pegged then as one of the league's worst teams. If the front office takes that line of thinking, the organization could head in an entirely different direction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

QUOTE: The offense will be criticized for how this game ended. Justin Jefferson caught just one pass for 4 yards during the second half, with the Giants finding ways to double-team him out of the contest. Kirk Cousins was able to find his other receivers for most of the game, but on the final fourth down of the season, he threw a pass well short of the sticks to a covered T.J. Hockenson, who was tackled easily for an anticlimactic ending.

More noticeably, this was a game in which the Vikings simply didn't appear to have many defensive solutions for what the Giants planned to do. Minnesota somehow combined the worst of both worlds, spending most of the game in conservative zone coverage and still managing to give up a remarkable amount of rushing yards to Jones.

Given that the Vikings had just played the Giants in December and were going up against an offense that has relied heavily on Jones' ability as a scrambler, it was remarkable to see how unprepared they looked during the first half of the game. The pass rush didn't stay disciplined enough to prevent Jones from escaping the pocket, and he was able to get the edge far too easily. Coach Brian Daboll mixed in steady doses of Jones on designed runs before halftime. His 8.9 rushing EPA was comfortably the most of any player, quarterback or otherwise, of wild-card weekend.

Jones, who led the league in QBR over the final month of the regular season, posted a 91.9 QBR against the Vikings in zone coverage on Sunday, per ESPN's automated coverage analysis. The Vikings were seemingly trying to take away the big play, but they were playing an offense that throws the shortest average passes in the league. Jones was happy to dink and dunk his way down the field with accurate throws.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/35453773/nfl-wild-card-playoff-losers-2022-how-ravens-dolphins-chargers-seahawks-vikings-improve-offseason

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

The offense can remain mainly intact. Thielen will restructure, I can't imagine him playing outside of Minnesota. The offense is top 10 and adding a quality guard could put them in the top 5.

The defense needs to go back to a 4-3, they can't cater the entire front 7 to fit Z. One thing I miss the ability develop Dlinemen like we did in the past with Zim. Hopefully Cine turns into a player, they definitely need another CB or two. Dantzler opposite another quality CB with Shelley and Sullivan is decent. Lets get out of this Donashell experiment, one where the DBs seem to be caught flat footed half of the time. Isn't this guy a coverage specialist? Kendricks is still on a reasonable deal but reinforcements needed there as well.

That's my glass half full opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

not terribly unexpected, but at least it wasnt embarrassing.

to me, it felt like the keenum year...fun, but not enough to win it all, so just enjoy the run...enjoy the wins, the catch, etc...

defense was too much of a liability for me to buy in all year.

keenum year without a minneapolis miracle

I certainly try to tell myself just enjoy it, it's not a big deal, but man really frustrating to see other organization who haven't won a Super Bowl building towards giving themselves chances like Cincy and Jax. Hell, I even love the young team Detroit has.

Just really depressing this team has never won a Super Bowl, and doesn't really seem they are on a path to building one at the moment. In fact things may need to get worse for a year or 2, before they get better

The problem starts at the top. Are the Wilf's willing to do what necessary?

Or are they satisfied with just being competitive but fizzling out every year?

By continuing to trot Kirk out there I'm going with the latter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

quote:

Likewise, after his second-half fade, the Vikings will need to decide whether they want to pay Smith $14 million for the 2023 season. Dalvin Tomlinson is a pending free agent, while the Vikings could clear up $9.5 million by moving on from veteran stalwart Eric Kendricks. For a team that is $8.5 million over the projected cap and likely to give Jefferson a record-setting contract, the Vikings are going to need to make some difficult decisions this offseason. It would be a surprise if they didn't field several new starters up front and in the secondary in 2023.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Likewise, after his second-half fade, the Vikings will need to decide whether they want to pay Smith $14 million for the 2023 season. Dalvin Tomlinson is a pending free agent, while the Vikings could clear up $9.5 million by moving on from veteran stalwart Eric Kendricks. For a team that is $8.5 million over the projected cap and likely to give Jefferson a record-setting contract, the Vikings are going to need to make some difficult decisions this offseason. It would be a surprise if they didn't field several new starters up front and in the secondary in 2023.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Unless we switch back to a 4-3 and Hunter regains his form of 3 years ago, who do we even build a defense around?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

I agree

Balance is the key for a great offense

For as much hype has Jerry Rice gets, the 1989 49ers had another great WR John Taylor, a very good TE Brent Jones, and 2 RBs who both could catch 75 balls a year in Craig and Rathman. They could literally run or throw very well out of their base set which made them almost impossible to defend.

The current Eagles have a stud in AJ Brown but when teams double him, Devonta Smith can bust out big plays. Thielen really seems to have slowed down - or is it just me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

I agree

Balance is the key for a great offense

For as much hype has Jerry Rice gets, the 1989 49ers had another great WR John Taylor, a very good TE Brent Jones, and 2 RBs who both could catch 75 balls a year in Craig and Rathman. They could literally run or throw very well out of their base set which made them almost impossible to defend.

The current Eagles have a stud in AJ Brown but when teams double him, Devonta Smith can bust out big plays. Thielen really seems to have slowed down - or is it just me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

I agree

Balance is the key for a great offense

For as much hype has Jerry Rice gets, the 1989 49ers had another great WR John Taylor, a very good TE Brent Jones, and 2 RBs who both could catch 75 balls a year in Craig and Rathman. They could literally run or throw very well out of their base set which made them almost impossible to defend.

The current Eagles have a stud in AJ Brown but when teams double him, Devonta Smith can bust out big plays. Thielen really seems to have slowed down - or is it just me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

I would spend this offseason building a new defense - even though I am not a huge Cousins fan. Also, there is no excuse for 1 pass for 4 yards for Jefferson.

Other teams with star WRs somehow manage to get them the ball even with the other team focusing on him.

The amazing decline in Thielen perhaps contributed to that

BUT

The defense and the DC are atrocious. Both must go

Jefferson isn't above criticism either. In the biggest games this season he was a no show. Exception being the Bills game.

Jefferson is a good player. The offense ran through him this season, which is why his numbers were so big. Way too much is made of his numbers.

Frankly, I'd like to see a more balanced offense so when we play a big game the other team doesn't know where it is coming from.

He had 128 catches for 1,800+ yards and eight scores.

They could be a better team if he had 100 catches, 1,400 yards and six scores. In fact, his scores may go up if we spread around the ball more.

I agree

Balance is the key for a great offense

For as much hype has Jerry Rice gets, the 1989 49ers had another great WR John Taylor, a very good TE Brent Jones, and 2 RBs who both could catch 75 balls a year in Craig and Rathman. They could literally run or throw very well out of their base set which made them almost impossible to defend.

The current Eagles have a stud in AJ Brown but when teams double him, Devonta Smith can bust out big plays. Thielen really seems to have slowed down - or is it just me?

Theilen is aging fast. Dude should've never been the number 2 this season.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Sad how fast football careers can end....

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Cousins is better than I thought he was

But

the head scratching plays still remain

I will be pissed about that 4th down pass for a long time - while understanding he is the only option at QB for next year