Tom Sykes
Posts: 5665
Joined: 7/27/2007
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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman
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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
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Still waiting to hear who all these "credible" starting offensive linemen are that have already told their agents to get to Minnesota, first stop. And do the reverse leverage thing... tell the Wilfs they are not leaving until Brzez signs their guy. Below market rate, screw the other teams, =better schemes, just do whatever it takes to sign in Minny.
We can host and sign them all simultaneously!
Matt Paradis
Mitch Morse https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Matt-Paradis-free-agent-profile-128519680/
Andy Levitre damaged goods. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24725303/andy-levitre-atlanta-falcons-left-guard-placed-injured-reserve-triceps-injury
Ramon Foster https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Ramon-Foster-free-agent-profile-128474860/
Quinton Spain https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SpaiQu00.htm
Travis Swanson https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanTr00.htm
Rodger Saffold https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SaffRo20.htm
Ju'Wuan James http://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/28635/big-payday-near-jawuan-james-will-see-how-much-dolphins-value-him
A.J. Cann
Mike Iupati
Max Garcia
And others who can be signed or traded for to, at a minimum, credibly man the interior of the OL so we're not entirely dependent on finding Day 1 starters in the draft.
Now tell me the two certain Day 1 starters who we will for sure be able to draft in April so we're not starting Tom Compton and Mike Remmers in Game One.
Just added some links
Its just a list and doesn't prove or disprove anything. We will see in the next four or five weeks who is actually going to be available ... and very importantly, why.
(For instance, the list starts out with broken leg, torn triceps, 33 years old) ...
There is usually only one or two good starting caliber OL available each free agency, then a player or two or three with a lot of game experience but OK labels (Reiff), and then a bunch of journeyman.
List not meant to be exhaustive or even proffer certifiably capable OL; instead, I want to show that there are players aplenty in FA and on rosters for the team to comb through and come up with a path to standing up a credible OL in Week One of 2019 no matter what happens in the draft. That path is much clearer than hoping to find at least two legit Day 1 starters in the draft or afterward.
From my POV, which is obviously limited, I would go all in on Paradis. The Kubiak Kids, if they were worth hiring, should give us an inside path. He could be valuable in not only anchoring a chronically weak interior OL, but also in implementing the new system. Then I would focus on an OG who can be at least minimally effective in that system and pass pro, and let Elflein, Easton (if he re-signs), draft picks, lower-tier FAs, etc compete for the other OG spot.
Costly, to some degree, but when you let your roof fall apart and the rainy season is coming, you might overpay to have a viable structure.
Aplenty?
There’s typically not.
I appreciate the outlook right now but pickings are very slim - for everybody. I’m not sure how many consistently decent players will be available - I’m not talking about the good ones. but not a whole lot. Everybody is scrambling.
We have our work cut out.
Remember there are players on other rosters, too, that we can trade for. This is the job of management. There is a pro personnel group whose job it is to know everything about every player who is in the league now, has recently been in the league, is in the CFL, has been in NFL camps, etc. That includes what it might take to get them via trade. A lot us, myself included, hoped this is what happened when we acquired Jones from the NYG at the beginning of the season, but that didn't work out.
There are guys that will enter free agency who are not what one might call "good", but who can usually hold their ground in pass pro and carry out their assignment at least effectively enough to get our running plays started. Sometimes they'll exceed that and sometimes they'll fail, but they can credibly man the position for the most part well enough to allow the offense to operate. That is well north of what we had at LG, C, and RG last year.
I'm not talking about good, just good enough. If we don't add at least a couple of interior guys in FA that can do that, we are counting on finding Day 1 starters in the draft who are available when we pick. That can definitely happen, but we can't count on it. That is what happened in the draft last year.
If we can add Paradis, which should be at least possible with the Kubiak Kids on board, we add a high-quality anchor who knows how to run our new scheme exactly as intended and can call the signals for it from the first mini camp, though he may still be recovering from his broken leg. His price shouldn't be too high, meaning cutting Remmers will get us at least two-thirds of the way there. Then add a guy who is of the type described above for one guard and let Elf, a draft pick, and/or whoever compete for the other spot. If you get a guy at 18 or 50 who is ready to step in at a higher level than the guy we sign, so much the better, but we don't have to count on it to fill a hole. Also, if there's a guy at another position of need like TE, LB, DT, WR, etc., you can consider taking him because you don't have a gaping hole you have to fill; that's how you get to do modified BPA every year instead of trying to continually make up for past failures or expiring contracts.
Going into the draft with a gaping hole at LG and RG, which is what we have, is folly, especially because Elf did not look good himself last year. I have a lot of hope for him, but managing via hope is a ticket to stay where you are or regress.
You and I are going round and round. I do not believe you can go into the draft expecting one, much less two starters ... especially at a targeted position.
There will not be a multitude of good plug and play FAs available, there never are. Besides, too many other teams equally desperate with more money.
Good enough? Changing out Compton, Jones, and Remmers with 'good enough' veteran free agents like Compton, Jones, and Remmers (before they signed with us) didn't fly either.
The offensive braintrust (OC, Kubiak) has to put together a cohesive plan of attack and stick to it. Our new OL coach(es) has to do a better job developing what we have. The draft and pro personnel people have to do a better job of uncovering gamers.
We need some luck or atleast an absence of really bad luck.
What we won't have is a bunch of shiny new fan toys – multiple FAs and multiple high Draft Picks – to make things better.
He's basically saying sign two Remmers types at G. And he ignores other teams pretending those players are 'upgrades' who will overpay, the cap, many players resigning with their own teams, schemes, injuries, age, etc.
Every year there are people who think free agency is the ticket. Outside of oddities like Cousins, it rarely is.
- 1 FA, our designated 'splash', but it isn't going to be a Steve Hutchinson
- #18 pick, who will start and not sit around for a year or two
- Better coaching
Who is the guaranteed Day 1 starter who is guaranteed to be available to us? You have yet to name one, which is a typical debating style of someone who just wants to attack everyone's plans while offering none of their own.
And by the way, the only other difference between my plan and yours is I would try to sign another "good enough, but not necessarily good" FA OG or C. Paradis is not going to get a Hutch-like deal; Saffold would be more likely to, and I've never advocated for that.
Seriously? OK, then who are the TWO free agent legit starters who are, as you say, "guaranteed to be available to us"?
So in your world you name a name and that's guaranteed! Got it.
Wow, you really are into this fantasy. "He named names"... right out of Seinfeld.
My point is there is a large pool of good enough interior linemen that can be found via FA and trade. A team can't get all, but they can get a couple---and maybe even a good or better one or two---and have the hole mostly filled, if not completely. Then you draft prospects who may be better now or later, and you can draft other positions if an opportunity to upgrade presents itself.
If you do nothing in FA and simply count on drafting two Day 1 starters, you have to have certainty they will be there and that they can actually start or you will be left with holes in the interior line, and we saw how well that worked this past season.
Exactly! 2 years ago Spielman went out and signed Reiff and Remmers after the debacle of 2016. There were other, better FA on the market, but they signed elsewhere. It happens every year and this year will be no different. Some top tier FA offensive linemen are going to hit the market, as are some solid, but unspectacular players. Hopefully, this year Spielman does what he should have done last year, which is to continue to add to the oline with QUALITY free agents and draft picks. There is absolutely no reason he can't get a starting G in free agency and draft a G and T within the first 3 rounds of the draft. It's just a question of if Spielman is serious about fixing the o line.
Happy Norseman - if the OL was worse that offseason and we had more cap space for FAs ... do you think we will be more aggressive in FA this offseason?
That offseason we had more pressure to improve the OL and no #1 draft pick ... if Spielman didnt address the OL then until rds 3 and 5 do you think he will use 2 of his first 3 picks this draft?
< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/4/2019 10:36:10 AM >
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