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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 7:02:44 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18029
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

Usually we have 4 qb's going in to camp every year.

Main reason is to get a look at all the other players and that would wear out let's say if you just had 2 qb's. The 4th PS game is normally played by the scrubs so none of your 53 get hurt.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4026

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 8:55:51 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

Usually we have 4 qb's going in to camp every year.

Main reason is to get a look at all the other players and that would wear out let's say if you just had 2 qb's. The 4th PS game is normally played by the scrubs so none of your 53 get hurt.

Thats right. With the undrafted rookie / extra camp arm usually dropped accordingly.

This year is different.

Now, our development project Sloter is ready to compete for a back-up spot. The ‘veteran’ we brought in is a veteran in name only and was given less guarenteed money than the UDFA camp arm - and the camp arm was made an offer that we probably dont wamt to lose as a PS casualty.

There seems to be a shift from the past formula of ... starter / below aveage but very experienced veteran backup (with a Practice Squad afterthought) ... to ... trying to develop potential starters behind the starter. Spielman must have had another epiphany after ‘OL drafted earlier are better.’

Post #: 4027

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 10:05:14 AM

David F.

Posts: 10894
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

Usually we have 4 qb's going in to camp every year.

Main reason is to get a look at all the other players and that would wear out let's say if you just had 2 qb's. The 4th PS game is normally played by the scrubs so none of your 53 get hurt.

Thats right. With the undrafted rookie / extra camp arm usually dropped accordingly.

This year is different.

Now, our development project Sloter is ready to compete for a back-up spot. The ‘veteran’ we brought in is a veteran in name only and was given less guarenteed money than the UDFA camp arm - and the camp arm was made an offer that we probably dont wamt to lose as a PS casualty.

There seems to be a shift from the past formula of ... starter / below aveage but very experienced veteran backup (with a Practice Squad afterthought) ... to ... trying to develop potential starters behind the starter. Spielman must have had another epiphany after ‘OL drafted earlier are better.’

Either that or Spielman saw that they didn't have any cap space to bring in the 'below average but very experienced veteran backup'. If so I not only hope it works out for Sloter but I hope Rick learns something about the value of developing a QB who can become our beloved stater or traded for a player or pick similar to what New England did with Ryan Mallett, Jacoby Brissett, Jimmy Garappolo and Matt Cassel.

For me, if the starter goes down, I'd rather always roll the dice on an unknown young QB with raw skills than a veteran has-been/never-was. Quite honestly that's just laziness on the organization. 'The veteran knows the system already' blah blah blah.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4028

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 10:08:21 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29251
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

Usually we have 4 qb's going in to camp every year.

Main reason is to get a look at all the other players and that would wear out let's say if you just had 2 qb's. The 4th PS game is normally played by the scrubs so none of your 53 get hurt.

Thats right. With the undrafted rookie / extra camp arm usually dropped accordingly.

This year is different.

Now, our development project Sloter is ready to compete for a back-up spot. The ‘veteran’ we brought in is a veteran in name only and was given less guarenteed money than the UDFA camp arm - and the camp arm was made an offer that we probably dont wamt to lose as a PS casualty.

There seems to be a shift from the past formula of ... starter / below aveage but very experienced veteran backup (with a Practice Squad afterthought) ... to ... trying to develop potential starters behind the starter. Spielman must have had another epiphany after ‘OL drafted earlier are better.’

That was a hard learned lesson from the Bridgewatter Sean Hill days.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4029

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 11:05:13 AM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

We also got outbid on Siemian otherwise we would be doing the same thing all over again. IMO opinion this is more a Khalil situation than a change in strategy. We don't have the money for a below average veteran back-up.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/7/2019 11:06:16 AM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4030

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 11:06:14 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29251
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

We also got outbid on Siemian otherwise we would be doing the same thing all over again.

Semien isn't the same as Hill...he actually is somewhat young yet....Hill, not so much.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4031

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 11:08:21 AM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

We also got outbid on Siemian otherwise we would be doing the same thing all over again.

Semien isn't the same as Hill...he actually is somewhat young yet....Hill, not so much.

I don't think age plays that much of a factor. I don't see a change in strategy as much as not having the resources.

EDIT My bad. David F already pointed this out.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4032

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 1:35:04 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Finding experienced depth at back-up QB early in FA has always been a top offseason priority.

Previous Backup QB approach:

2012 Rosenfels signed 3-13
2013 Cassel signed 3-14
2014 Cassel signed 3-11 (re-signed)
2015 Hill signed 3-11 (Traded Cassel 3-10)
2016 Hill under contract
2017 Keenum signed 4-3 (Cassel traded 3-10)
2018 Siemian traded for 3-19

Mannion is not a backup QB with starting experience ... signed early in FA to take over if Cousins goes down. He feels more like, 'let's get some competition in here that we can afford before the well is completely dry'.

Current Backup QB approach:

2019 Bump Sloter to backup QB.

Go with young talent and complete inexperience over no talent but starting experience.

Going after franchise QB Cousins hard, bringing in and keeping young talented Sloter, bringing in backup competition like Mannion – an untested veteran in his prime (rather than an experienced has-been), and continuing to spend big on young dev projects

... is a change in approach.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/7/2019 1:36:32 PM >

Post #: 4033

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 1:40:47 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45689
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

I think what it boils down to is that if Cousins goes down, we're screwed.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 4034

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 1:44:32 PM

David F.

Posts: 10894
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Finding experienced depth at back-up QB early in FA has always been a top offseason priority.

Previous Backup QB approach:

2012 Rosenfels signed 3-13
2013 Cassel signed 3-14
2014 Cassel signed 3-11 (re-signed)
2015 Hill signed 3-11 (Traded Cassel 3-10)
2016 Hill under contract
2017 Keenum signed 4-3 (Cassel traded 3-10)
2018 Siemian traded for 3-19

Mannion is not a backup QB with starting experience ... signed early in FA to take over if Cousins goes down. He feels more like, 'let's get some competition in here that we can afford before the well is completely dry'.

Current Backup QB approach:

2019 Bump Sloter to backup QB.

Go with young talent and complete inexperience over no talent but starting experience.

Going after franchise QB Cousins hard, bringing in and keeping young talented Sloter, bringing in backup competition like Mannion – an untested veteran in his prime (rather than an experienced has-been), and continuing to spend big on young dev projects

... is a change in approach.

Only thing left to do with the new plan is to start DRAFTING the young talent with no experience so we can develop them into a starter or trade them for something of value. Either that or keep drafting the Willie Beavers and TJ Clemmings types. Gee whiz!

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4035

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 1:46:59 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Finding experienced depth at back-up QB early in FA has always been a top offseason priority.

Previous Backup QB approach:

2012 Rosenfels signed 3-13
2013 Cassel signed 3-14
2014 Cassel signed 3-11 (re-signed)
2015 Hill signed 3-11 (Traded Cassel 3-10)
2016 Hill under contract
2017 Keenum signed 4-3 (Cassel traded 3-10)
2018 Siemian traded for 3-19

Mannion is not a backup QB with starting experience ... signed early in FA to take over if Cousins goes down. He feels more like, 'let's get some competition in here that we can afford before the well is completely dry'.

Current Backup QB approach:

2019 Bump Sloter to backup QB.

Go with young talent and complete inexperience over no talent but starting experience.

Going after franchise QB Cousins hard, bringing in and keeping young talented Sloter, bringing in backup competition like Mannion – an untested veteran in his prime (rather than an experienced has-been), and continuing to spend big on young dev projects

... is a change in approach.

They were outbid for Siemian. No cap room for anyone else. Is a forced change in approach. You honestly think Zimmer wouldn't want a warm cuddly no talent but starting experience security blanket?

But like many things, we can agree to disagree.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4036

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 2:45:02 PM

marty

Posts: 13305
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

So either incompetence or mistakes lead Sloter to starting, and then he leads the team to a SB win.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4037

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 2:49:05 PM

marty

Posts: 13305
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I think what it boils down to is that if Cousins goes down, we're screwed.

Yet another area where you are wrong Sweens.

Sloter comes in, and it looks the the QBing IMPROVES, more early leads, more scoring, the team becomes a contender.

At least, from what I have seen from Sloter so far. Seems to have passed every test, looking forward to seeing him play with the 1st team offense.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4038

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 2:53:37 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45689
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think what it boils down to is that if Cousins goes down, we're screwed.

Yet another area where you are wrong Sweens.

Sloter comes in, and it looks the the QBing IMPROVES, more early leads, more scoring, the team becomes a contender.

At least, from what I have seen from Sloter so far. Seems to have passed every test, looking forward to seeing him play with the 1st team offense.

Watching Sloter pile up yards on third string defenses really fills you with visions of Super Bowls, eh? Serious, I can't believe you kept a straight face long enough to type that.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 4039

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 3:31:37 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Things are really slowing down now into the summer abyss. For me, the purpose of the Twins season is just to humor us a little bit as we wait for training camp- you know, just to bide some time. I can not even watch NBA basketball more than five minutes at a time. I didn't used to be that way Hockey is another thing. I love watching hockey and I will get into it. I just wish that there was a local interest involved. I don't even know who to root for, though. Carolina and St. Louis, I guess. I can't root for a Boston or a California team, right now, which is weird because when I was young the Celtics were my team.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4040

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 3:33:37 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

We already have Browning ahead of Mannion? I like it if that is true. He was one of the highest rated QB prospects ever entering college and was PAC12 PotY his sophomore season. I think there is something there. Shoulder injuries sapped some of his arm strength, but maybe he can fully recover.

Yeah.

No.

He’s weak, slow, and a bit of a punk.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 4041

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 3:44:06 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18029
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think what it boils down to is that if Cousins goes down, we're screwed.

We're not alone.

Although once in a while the backup shines...Keenum....Foles

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4042

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 4:04:20 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Finding experienced depth at back-up QB early in FA has always been a top offseason priority.

Previous Backup QB approach:

2012 Rosenfels signed 3-13
2013 Cassel signed 3-14
2014 Cassel signed 3-11 (re-signed)
2015 Hill signed 3-11 (Traded Cassel 3-10)
2016 Hill under contract
2017 Keenum signed 4-3 (Cassel traded 3-10)
2018 Siemian traded for 3-19

Mannion is not a backup QB with starting experience ... signed early in FA to take over if Cousins goes down. He feels more like, 'let's get some competition in here that we can afford before the well is completely dry'.

Current Backup QB approach:

2019 Bump Sloter to backup QB.

Go with young talent and complete inexperience over no talent but starting experience.

Going after franchise QB Cousins hard, bringing in and keeping young talented Sloter, bringing in backup competition like Mannion – an untested veteran in his prime (rather than an experienced has-been), and continuing to spend big on young dev projects

... is a change in approach.

They were outbid for Siemian. No cap room for anyone else. Is a forced change in approach. You honestly think Zimmer wouldn't want a warm cuddly no talent but starting experience security blanket?

But like many things, we can agree to disagree.

Would you have paid Siemian 2m for 1 yr, when players like Bortles are signing for 1M for 1 yr? If they liked him that much or felt the pressing need for an experienced backup - they likely could have worked it out. I’m glad they didn’t.

There is a lot of offseason to go, maybe they still sign a vet, I dunno. IMO they seem to have changed the makeup of the position.

Post #: 4043

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 4:15:18 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33800
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

We already have Browning ahead of Mannion? I like it if that is true. He was one of the highest rated QB prospects ever entering college and was PAC12 PotY his sophomore season. I think there is something there. Shoulder injuries sapped some of his arm strength, but maybe he can fully recover.

Yeah.

No.

He’s weak, slow, and a bit of a punk.

And the PAC12 season and career record holder in just about every QB stat including wins so I guess we can add WINNER.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4044

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 4:24:24 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Tells you how secure Mannion is ... seems like he ousts Sloter or is gone (i.e. he's no more than a competitive tool to push Sloter) with our lineup most likely: Cousins-starter, Sloter-Back-up, Browning-dev/3rd string

Andrew Krammer
‏@Andrew_Krammer
19m19 minutes ago

"It was somewhere that wanted me, so I wanted to be here." The #Vikings guaranteed more to undrafted QB Jake Browning ($140K) than free-agent QB Sean Mannion ($90K).

We already have Browning ahead of Mannion? I like it if that is true. He was one of the highest rated QB prospects ever entering college and was PAC12 PotY his sophomore season. I think there is something there. Shoulder injuries sapped some of his arm strength, but maybe he can fully recover.

Yeah.

No.

He’s weak, slow, and a bit of a punk.

And the PAC12 season and career record holder in just about every QB stat including wins so I guess we can add WINNER.

Yeah.

In a really down period of Conference Play with suspect defenses and no running game at UW along with
Chris Peterson’s Western Athletic Conference Passing attack.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 4045

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 4:25:15 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

The only real NFL defenders the past 4 years played for Washington with a few exceptions.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 4046

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 6:31:27 PM

Dana Turner

Posts: 1958
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I think what it boils down to is that if Cousins goes down, we're screwed.

Yep, like most teams. $28 million on your QB will get you in that type of situation, I'm hoping that is why we are investing in his protection with a upgraded O-line and change away from a drop back offense. We'll see, but if he get's injured, the defense better be very good!

Post #: 4047

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 6:55:16 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Who is your choice for the third wide receiver? Shoot. I don't know.

https://purpleptsd.com/the-battle-for-the-wr-spots-behind-diggs-thielen/?fbclid=IwAR0eh_d6BEjQg59VMVZqPlBD2hUcknjQJ-e5IITEIRNSYjiuP2-u7kH-fco

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4048

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 9:52:24 PM

David F.

Posts: 10894
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think what it boils down to is that if Cousins goes down, we're screwed.

Yet another area where you are wrong Sweens.

Sloter comes in, and it looks the the QBing IMPROVES, more early leads, more scoring, the team becomes a contender.

At least, from what I have seen from Sloter so far. Seems to have passed every test, looking forward to seeing him play with the 1st team offense.

Watching Sloter pile up yards on third string defenses really fills you with visions of Super Bowls, eh? Serious, I can't believe you kept a straight face long enough to type that.

In fairness, he does it with his own third-string offense.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 4049

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/7/2019 10:22:30 PM

marty

Posts: 13305
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

If the Vikings 3rd string offensive players [besides QB] were far superior to all the defenses they were facing,

And the Vikings starters on offense [besides QB] were very weak compared to all the defenses they were playing,

Then inserting the 3rd string QB to number 1 would likely lead to mo improvement. But if the 3rd string support wasn't all that great, and the 1st string offense had some great WRs, a great run game, and a good OL, but the 1st string QB was making slow decisions to make that OL look poor, then inserting that #3 to #1 could have a Nick Foles effect.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 4050