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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 4:06:34 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Absconded from another site

Out of 81 eligible TE’s, Rudolph ranks 59th and 60th in run and pass blocking grades according to PFF

And for the primary receiving TEs that's probably average. And it's from PFF so why did I even bother.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/12/2019 4:19:45 PM >

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Post #: 4176

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 4:16:05 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

He doesn't block. It's time for him to go.

Sure he does.

He's no Morgan, that's for sure. Like a lot of TEs, he occupies defenders more than he drives them off the ball. Yes I've seen him get run over, but I've also seen him getting it done.

I think he's gone. I'm ready to roll with Smith even though he is no sure thing ... I'm interested in seeing what Hikutini brings, if anything.

Just hoping someone can fill the gap in production that Rudolph will leave.

Post #: 4177

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 4:37:13 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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He occupies defenders on running plays too?

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Post #: 4178

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 4:41:17 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

If a slow TE with zero open field skill can produce in this offense then why the heck aren’t we asking what a faster, more agile TE could do? Alex smith produced just fine in KC too.

That's the thing. Rudolph is what he is ... but the problem is not Rudolph, it has been the team's inability to find a better downfield threat. Instead of the slow dude (who is somewhat effective on short yardage and in the redzone) complementing a better TE ... we have pure blockers or even less effective pass catchers complementing him.

I understand the exasperation with Rudolph ... it would be nice to see Rudy (playing for less) complementing Smith – if Smith is what we hope he is.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/12/2019 4:46:59 PM >

Post #: 4179

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 4:51:30 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

He occupies defenders on running plays too?

Don't make it sound like Rudolph runs the other direction when he's supposed to block. He's a good effort player who is a subpar blocker.

There's plenty to criticize without embellishing.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/12/2019 4:58:48 PM >

Post #: 4180

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 6:21:04 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4181

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 6:25:18 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Trae Waynes, Jeff Badet to participate in new NFL fastest man competition https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/12/18616886/trae-waynes-jeff-badet-nfl-fastest-man-competition-40-yards-of-gold-minnesota-vikings

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4182

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 6:43:58 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

Post #: 4183

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 7:30:48 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4184

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/12/2019 8:02:34 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

IMO if we had average OL play last year we had a shot at the title.

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Post #: 4185

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 6:21:06 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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With our outside zone running scheme, even as a tight end will Rudolph be a good fit moving His feet laterally or finding a defender to block on the second level? I'm not sure Morgan is either.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4186

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 6:24:31 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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I checked out Morgan's draft profile to see if he might be athletic enough. Still not sure. Maybe.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2632153-david-morgan-ii-nfl-draft-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie.amp.html

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4187

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 7:41:19 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29251
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

That doesn't make you a bad guy in this. There are some that say Rudolph isn't good. I think Rudolph is good---I just think he is the one you trade or cut over Waynes or Griffen (at this point). I saw how little Cousins went to Rudolph except for one game. Diggs and Thielen are so dominant that Rudolph is the fourth or fifth option which makes him expendable at 7.5 million.

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Post #: 4188

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 8:09:00 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I checked out Morgan's draft profile to see if he might be athletic enough. Still not sure. Maybe.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2632153-david-morgan-ii-nfl-draft-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie.amp.html

Morgan is basically an O Lineman who has good hands for catching the ball. He is ridiculously slow for a TE at over 5 second 40. He was a great pick for us in the late 6th round IIRC, for his blocking ability and reliable hands. I'd never heard of him before we drafted him, but as soon as we did and I heard the reports I was confident that he would not only make the team, but be used regularly.

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Post #: 4189

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 8:13:11 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

That doesn't make you a bad guy in this. There are some that say Rudolph isn't good. I think Rudolph is good---I just think he is the one you trade or cut over Waynes or Griffen (at this point). I saw how little Cousins went to Rudolph except for one game. Diggs and Thielen are so dominant that Rudolph is the fourth or fifth option which makes him expendable at 7.5 million.

Rudolph was the third option in the passing game catching about 4 passes per game. In the next to last game last season against Detroit he busted out for 9 receptions on 9 targets, 122 yards and 2 TDs. I think assuming he remains on the team he will continue to be the #3 option, but eventually be supplanted by Smith for that role.

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Post #: 4190

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 8:33:34 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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Hillarious article from the Daily Norseman. Vikings OL: Love it or List it.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/9/18538100/the-vikings-offensive-line-are-you-going-to-love-it-or-list-it

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4191

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:01:46 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29251
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

That doesn't make you a bad guy in this. There are some that say Rudolph isn't good. I think Rudolph is good---I just think he is the one you trade or cut over Waynes or Griffen (at this point). I saw how little Cousins went to Rudolph except for one game. Diggs and Thielen are so dominant that Rudolph is the fourth or fifth option which makes him expendable at 7.5 million.

Rudolph was the third option in the passing game catching about 4 passes per game. In the next to last game last season against Detroit he busted out for 9 receptions on 9 targets, 122 yards and 2 TDs. I think assuming he remains on the team he will continue to be the #3 option, but eventually be supplanted by Smith for that role.

Again....targets last year

Thielen 153
Diggs 149

Rudolph 82
Treadwell 53
RBs 75 (cook 49 Murray 26)

He is a third option but when you have Thielen and Diggs with so many targets (like I mentioned in the last post)...you can get by w/o Rudolph if they find someone better than Treadwell (beebe, Mitchell, etc.)

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4192

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:12:58 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

That doesn't make you a bad guy in this. There are some that say Rudolph isn't good. I think Rudolph is good---I just think he is the one you trade or cut over Waynes or Griffen (at this point). I saw how little Cousins went to Rudolph except for one game. Diggs and Thielen are so dominant that Rudolph is the fourth or fifth option which makes him expendable at 7.5 million.

Rudolph was the third option in the passing game catching about 4 passes per game. In the next to last game last season against Detroit he busted out for 9 receptions on 9 targets, 122 yards and 2 TDs. I think assuming he remains on the team he will continue to be the #3 option, but eventually be supplanted by Smith for that role.

Again....targets last year

Thielen 153
Diggs 149

Rudolph 82
Treadwell 53
RBs 75 (cook 49 Murray 26)

He is a third option but when you have Thielen and Diggs with so many targets (like I mentioned in the last post)...you can get by w/o Rudolph if they find someone better than Treadwell (beebe, Mitchell, etc.)

We will most likely be using two TE base sets this year. In the Kubiak offense the #3WR averages 21 receptions per season. Expect Rudolph and Smith to combine for over 100 receptions.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4193

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:17:58 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Trae Waynes, Jeff Badet to participate in new NFL fastest man competition https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/12/18616886/trae-waynes-jeff-badet-nfl-fastest-man-competition-40-yards-of-gold-minnesota-vikings

Badet wins, Waynes blows his hammy out.

Post #: 4194

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:20:12 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Trae Waynes, Jeff Badet to participate in new NFL fastest man competition https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/12/18616886/trae-waynes-jeff-badet-nfl-fastest-man-competition-40-yards-of-gold-minnesota-vikings

Badet wins, Waynes blows his hammy out.

Waynes is very fast, but Badet is ridiculously fast. I think Badet has a chance to win the competition. I don't think it is all that risky. They have all the players at the combine running 40s and I almost never hear of injuries from that.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4195

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:21:32 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I checked out Morgan's draft profile to see if he might be athletic enough. Still not sure. Maybe.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2632153-david-morgan-ii-nfl-draft-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie.amp.html

Morgan is basically an O Lineman who has good hands for catching the ball. He is ridiculously slow for a TE at over 5 second 40. He was a great pick for us in the late 6th round IIRC, for his blocking ability and reliable hands. I'd never heard of him before we drafted him, but as soon as we did and I heard the reports I was confident that he would not only make the team, but be used regularly.

While slow, I think Morgan has bit of a knack for picking his way downfield after the catch.

Post #: 4196

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:24:10 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 29251
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

That doesn't make you a bad guy in this. There are some that say Rudolph isn't good. I think Rudolph is good---I just think he is the one you trade or cut over Waynes or Griffen (at this point). I saw how little Cousins went to Rudolph except for one game. Diggs and Thielen are so dominant that Rudolph is the fourth or fifth option which makes him expendable at 7.5 million.

Rudolph was the third option in the passing game catching about 4 passes per game. In the next to last game last season against Detroit he busted out for 9 receptions on 9 targets, 122 yards and 2 TDs. I think assuming he remains on the team he will continue to be the #3 option, but eventually be supplanted by Smith for that role.

Again....targets last year

Thielen 153
Diggs 149

Rudolph 82
Treadwell 53
RBs 75 (cook 49 Murray 26)

He is a third option but when you have Thielen and Diggs with so many targets (like I mentioned in the last post)...you can get by w/o Rudolph if they find someone better than Treadwell (beebe, Mitchell, etc.)

We will most likely be using two TE base sets this year. In the Kubiak offense the #3WR averages 21 receptions per season. Expect Rudolph and Smith to combine for over 100 receptions.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm

Did Vernon Davis and Owen Daniels have 100 receptions in 2015 when Denver had two stud WRs? (nope)

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4197

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:27:33 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Trae Waynes, Jeff Badet to participate in new NFL fastest man competition https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/12/18616886/trae-waynes-jeff-badet-nfl-fastest-man-competition-40-yards-of-gold-minnesota-vikings

Badet wins, Waynes blows his hammy out.

Waynes is very fast, but Badet is ridiculously fast. I think Badet has a chance to win the competition. I don't think it is all that risky. They have all the players at the combine running 40s and I almost never hear of injuries from that.

The combine is a bunch of guys who have been training just for the combine, this thing you don't where the guys are at conditioning wise. I'm a little surprised teams are on board with this. I don't know how the competition is organized, probably single elimination, in that case the eventual winner would be running 4 times.

Post #: 4198

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:27:46 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I know he makes effort to run with the ball after catching it, too.

Point taken.

I feel like I am a bad guy because I have been defending Rudolph until now. It's just that we didn't protect our quarterback and we didn't run the ball very well last year. I came to the conclusion that it's not all on the O-linemen.

Rudolph has strengths. He catches almost everything and he converts first downs and scores touchdowns. But it still is a team game.

That doesn't make you a bad guy in this. There are some that say Rudolph isn't good. I think Rudolph is good---I just think he is the one you trade or cut over Waynes or Griffen (at this point). I saw how little Cousins went to Rudolph except for one game. Diggs and Thielen are so dominant that Rudolph is the fourth or fifth option which makes him expendable at 7.5 million.

Rudolph was the third option in the passing game catching about 4 passes per game. In the next to last game last season against Detroit he busted out for 9 receptions on 9 targets, 122 yards and 2 TDs. I think assuming he remains on the team he will continue to be the #3 option, but eventually be supplanted by Smith for that role.

Again....targets last year

Thielen 153
Diggs 149

Rudolph 82
Treadwell 53
RBs 75 (cook 49 Murray 26)

He is a third option but when you have Thielen and Diggs with so many targets (like I mentioned in the last post)...you can get by w/o Rudolph if they find someone better than Treadwell (beebe, Mitchell, etc.)

We will most likely be using two TE base sets this year. In the Kubiak offense the #3WR averages 21 receptions per season. Expect Rudolph and Smith to combine for over 100 receptions.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm

Did Vernon Davis and Owen Daniels have 100 receptions in 2015 when Denver had two stud WRs? (nope)

Good point. If Rudolph can maintain his 64 all Smith needs to do is catch 36 that's barely over 2 a game. If they can both catch 3 a game that's 96. I think it's doable, but certainly not a lock. How many did VD and Reed combine for in their best year together? Did they manage 100?

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/13/2019 9:30:27 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4199

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:29:57 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Trae Waynes, Jeff Badet to participate in new NFL fastest man competition https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/12/18616886/trae-waynes-jeff-badet-nfl-fastest-man-competition-40-yards-of-gold-minnesota-vikings

Badet wins, Waynes blows his hammy out.

Waynes is very fast, but Badet is ridiculously fast. I think Badet has a chance to win the competition. I don't think it is all that risky. They have all the players at the combine running 40s and I almost never hear of injuries from that.

The combine is a bunch of guys who have been training just for the combine, this thing you don't where the guys are at conditioning wise. I'm a little surprised teams are on board with this. I don't know how the competition is organized, probably single elimination, in that case the eventual winner would be running 4 times.

I'm sure the guys in this competition are training for it. It "should" be safe.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4200