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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 6:37:29 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45692
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I checked out Morgan's draft profile to see if he might be athletic enough. Still not sure. Maybe.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2632153-david-morgan-ii-nfl-draft-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie.amp.html

Morgan is basically an O Lineman who has good hands for catching the ball. He is ridiculously slow for a TE at over 5 second 40. He was a great pick for us in the late 6th round IIRC, for his blocking ability and reliable hands. I'd never heard of him before we drafted him, but as soon as we did and I heard the reports I was confident that he would not only make the team, but be used regularly.

While slow, I think Morgan has bit of a knack for picking his way downfield after the catch.

I'd be happy with Smith and Morgan as the primary TEs.

Even if Morgan is slower than Rudy, he's a much better blocker and while we don't throw his way much, he has shown an ability to get open, to know where the marker is and he's actually got a bit more wiggle after the catch than Rudy.

Plus it would most likely make Smith the #1 TE receiving option instead of the #2 if Rudy stays. And I like Smith's ability to draw the defense farther down the field opening up the running and short passing game.

I also like the potential for Smith and Conklin as a TE combo. This of course assumes Conklin has upgraded his blocking skills. I think he has the potential improve as he was a converted basketball player and not fully committed to football until his second year of college. Good athlete at the position.

To me Conklin was very deficient in both blocking and receiving skills. The only reason he may be retained this year is if for some reason Rudolph is moved or as I expect we will primarily use 12 personnel making 4 TEs a greater need than before. I think we could survive without Rudy, but I think we would be taking a step backwards with our TEs which doesn't seem ideal with utilizing 12 personnel.
It has always been my contention that most of this board significantly underrates Rudy and I guess most of this board thinks I significantly overrate Rudy. Stats have been in Rudy's favor. Eye test according to many has not. If we move Rudy, it will be kind of fun to see how the backups and Smith can take the reigns. I won't lose any sleep over it.

It was interesting to me when Paul Allen said on the radio this morning that Conklin will definitely make the team this year. I do believe he will benefit from a year under his belt.

I found this article about Conklin just before last year's draft.

http://ramstalk.net/2018-nfl-draft-profile-central-michigan-te-tyler-conklin/

Conklin is considered to be pretty decent at catching the ball. A lot of the cons associated to Conklin could have to do with his relative inexperience. A lot of technique things that, if they can be cleaned up, could make him a pretty solid TE.

I don't want to hate on Conklin, but he is what he is. A small and slow move TE. If he makes the team either
A: We have traded Rudolph
B: We will be playing a lot of 12 personnel and need 4 TEs.

Conklin is neither small nor slow. Check out his 33 yard catch against Miami if you don't believe it.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 4226

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 6:55:59 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I checked out Morgan's draft profile to see if he might be athletic enough. Still not sure. Maybe.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2632153-david-morgan-ii-nfl-draft-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie.amp.html

Morgan is basically an O Lineman who has good hands for catching the ball. He is ridiculously slow for a TE at over 5 second 40. He was a great pick for us in the late 6th round IIRC, for his blocking ability and reliable hands. I'd never heard of him before we drafted him, but as soon as we did and I heard the reports I was confident that he would not only make the team, but be used regularly.

While slow, I think Morgan has bit of a knack for picking his way downfield after the catch.

I'd be happy with Smith and Morgan as the primary TEs.

Even if Morgan is slower than Rudy, he's a much better blocker and while we don't throw his way much, he has shown an ability to get open, to know where the marker is and he's actually got a bit more wiggle after the catch than Rudy.

Plus it would most likely make Smith the #1 TE receiving option instead of the #2 if Rudy stays. And I like Smith's ability to draw the defense farther down the field opening up the running and short passing game.

I also like the potential for Smith and Conklin as a TE combo. This of course assumes Conklin has upgraded his blocking skills. I think he has the potential improve as he was a converted basketball player and not fully committed to football until his second year of college. Good athlete at the position.

To me Conklin was very deficient in both blocking and receiving skills. The only reason he may be retained this year is if for some reason Rudolph is moved or as I expect we will primarily use 12 personnel making 4 TEs a greater need than before. I think we could survive without Rudy, but I think we would be taking a step backwards with our TEs which doesn't seem ideal with utilizing 12 personnel.
It has always been my contention that most of this board significantly underrates Rudy and I guess most of this board thinks I significantly overrate Rudy. Stats have been in Rudy's favor. Eye test according to many has not. If we move Rudy, it will be kind of fun to see how the backups and Smith can take the reigns. I won't lose any sleep over it.

It was interesting to me when Paul Allen said on the radio this morning that Conklin will definitely make the team this year. I do believe he will benefit from a year under his belt.

I found this article about Conklin just before last year's draft.

http://ramstalk.net/2018-nfl-draft-profile-central-michigan-te-tyler-conklin/

Conklin is considered to be pretty decent at catching the ball. A lot of the cons associated to Conklin could have to do with his relative inexperience. A lot of technique things that, if they can be cleaned up, could make him a pretty solid TE.

I don't want to hate on Conklin, but he is what he is. A small and slow move TE. If he makes the team either
A: We have traded Rudolph
B: We will be playing a lot of 12 personnel and need 4 TEs.

Conklin is neither small nor slow. Check out his 33 yard catch against Miami if you don't believe it.

Conklin is 6'3 and ran a 4.8 at the combine.

He's got an inch on Smith but neither are good-sized TEs. Atleast Smith can move.

Post #: 4227

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 7:07:42 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78959
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

He posted a 38-inch vertical jump at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, which ranked second among all tight ends.

Conklin also impressed in other areas of the on-field skills testing. He tied for fourth among tight ends with a broad jump of 10 feet, ranked fifth with a 7.13-second 3-cone drill and ranked ninth in the 40-yard dash, clocking in at 4.8 seconds.

Other than the 40, Conklin's numbers actually smoked Irv Smith's.

40 Yard:
Smith: 4.63
Conklin: 4.8

Vertical Jump:
Smith: 32.5
Conklin: 38

Broad Jump:
Smith: 110.0
Conklin: 120.0

3 Cone Drill"
Smith: 7.32
Conklin: 7.13

Post #: 4228

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 7:10:23 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Conklin is neither small nor slow. Check out his 33 yard catch against Miami if you don't believe it.

I did check that out a few days ago. Nice play. I think that was his big day of the season. I remember him having two receptions.
EDIT: I looked it up. Yep 2 catches out of his 5 on the season and 53 of his 77 yards.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/13/2019 7:25:20 PM >

_____________________________

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So let it be done."

Post #: 4229

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 7:12:46 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

He posted a 38-inch vertical jump at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, which ranked second among all tight ends.

Conklin also impressed in other areas of the on-field skills testing. He tied for fourth among tight ends with a broad jump of 10 feet, ranked fifth with a 7.13-second 3-cone drill and ranked ninth in the 40-yard dash, clocking in at 4.8 seconds.

Other than the 40, Conklin's numbers actually smoked Irv Smith's.

40 Yard:
Smith: 4.63
Conklin: 4.8

Vertical Jump:
Smith: 32.5
Conklin: 38

Broad Jump:
Smith: 110.0
Conklin: 120.0

3 Cone Drill"
Smith: 7.32
Conklin: 7.13

I did remember him really skying to make a catch against Miami.
4.8 really ranked him 9th? How many TEs were tested?
You guys are making me warm up to him a bit. I always thought he was the consolation prize when Carolina sniped us on the one we wanted.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/13/2019 7:23:48 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4230

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 7:26:20 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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wrong thread

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So let it be done."

Post #: 4231

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 8:28:35 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

He posted a 38-inch vertical jump at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, which ranked second among all tight ends.

Conklin also impressed in other areas of the on-field skills testing. He tied for fourth among tight ends with a broad jump of 10 feet, ranked fifth with a 7.13-second 3-cone drill and ranked ninth in the 40-yard dash, clocking in at 4.8 seconds.

Other than the 40, Conklin's numbers actually smoked Irv Smith's.

40 Yard:
Smith: 4.63
Conklin: 4.8

Vertical Jump:
Smith: 32.5
Conklin: 38

Broad Jump:
Smith: 110.0
Conklin: 120.0

3 Cone Drill"
Smith: 7.32
Conklin: 7.13

They did ... although outside of his 40 time, weren't Smith's numbers just average? (btw Conklin's '9th ranked' 4.8 was last among the 9 TEs that ran).

So Conklin tests quicker and is more explosive ... is an inch taller and weighed 254 to Smith's 242.

Hikutini was 6'4 247 lbs but didn't participate in the combine drills because of a bowl game injury. He didn't start running until the week before his pro day but still ran 'a disappointing' 4.75. He's probably somewhere closer to Smith's respectable 4.63.

I hope they all push forward give us something more than our typical MO – one really slow starter, one blocking specialist, and a developer.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/13/2019 8:33:46 PM >

Post #: 4232

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:02:04 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78959
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

Post #: 4233

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:06:12 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78959
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Kyle Rudolph said Monday he'd like clarity soon about his future with the Vikings, just days after the team and Rudolph's camp stopped negotiating a possible extension.

Broken down talks, which coach Mike Zimmer and Rudolph acknowledged Monday during the inaugural Mike Zimmer Golf Classic in Eden Prairie, have put Rudolph square on the trading block. The Pro Bowl tight end is due $7.625 million, none guaranteed, in a contract season and the Vikings need salary cap space.

Rudolph, 29, reiterated his desire to stay with the Vikings but said a quick resolution would benefit both sides regardless of where he lands.

"Sooner rather than later," Rudolph said. "I don't want to be dealing with this come OTAs, training camp, minicamp. So, the sooner the better. I think that's for both parties. I think the Vikings want clarity; I think we want clarity. Yeah, sooner the better.

"Last week would've been great, too. Obviously, it's a difficult situation and a lot of complex things go into it. That takes time. It's not an easy cut — they like me, I like them, we want to stay here — it's just not how it works."

The Vikings and Rudolph's representatives tabled negotiations Friday on a new contract when financial gaps still weren't bridged.

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-kyle-rudolph-hopes-for-quick-resolution-to-contract-issue/509860632/

Post #: 4234

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:24:55 PM

Pager

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Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4235

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 9:38:05 PM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4236

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 10:24:48 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4237

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 10:37:06 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/13/2019 10:46:51 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4238

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 10:50:28 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

You miss a very obvious option. He gets cut and makes less.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4239

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 11:25:44 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

You miss a very obvious option. He gets cut and makes less.

No. First off the Vikings wouldn't cut him when they can trade him. Unless all the reports of teams making trade offers are lies. Makes zero sense. Even assuming he gets cut he signs for about the same as he is getting based on FA contracts for TEs. Rudolph holds all the cards in this standoff.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4240

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 11:32:48 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Cut him on the last day before the season starts.

Post #: 4241

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 11:38:29 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

I think we will find out soon what the Vikings will do. It sounds like they were trying to make the numbers work, but Rudolph didn't want a pay cut in exchange for more guaranteed money. He's been a model citizen on and off the field, so I wish him well, unless he becomes a Packers or Patriot.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 5/13/2019 11:39:52 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4242

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/13/2019 11:44:16 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

You miss a very obvious option. He gets cut and makes less.

No. First off the Vikings wouldn't cut him when they can trade him. Unless all the reports of teams making trade offers are lies. Makes zero sense. Even assuming he gets cut he signs for about the same as he is getting based on FA contracts for TEs. Rudolph holds all the cards in this standoff.

My god, you can misconstrue information. Show me one report of "teams making trade offers". All I've seen is teams have "interest". Teams also had interest in Waynes. One the teams connected to Ruddy, NE, just went out and signed another veteran TE.

You believe he signs for the same. I don't.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 4243

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:15:34 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

I suppose he could be cut and the re-signed later after he gets disappointing offers.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4244

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:17:22 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6039
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Cut him on the last day before the season starts.

V-e-r-y tacky. Wait till Christmas Eve.

Post #: 4245

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:29:19 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

You miss a very obvious option. He gets cut and makes less.

No. First off the Vikings wouldn't cut him when they can trade him. Unless all the reports of teams making trade offers are lies. Makes zero sense. Even assuming he gets cut he signs for about the same as he is getting based on FA contracts for TEs. Rudolph holds all the cards in this standoff.

My god, you can misconstrue information. Show me one report of "teams making trade offers". All I've seen is teams have "interest". Teams also had interest in Waynes. One the teams connected to Ruddy, NE, just went out and signed another veteran TE.

You believe he signs for the same. I don't.

I've seen the FA TE numbers. Based on that I think he can easily sign for the same. As for Patriots signing Ben Watson isn't he like 100 (38) years old and just came out of retirement. Honestly I don't think that would factor in much unless they gave him significant guaranteed money. There are more TE needy teams than the Patriots. The Cowboys and Raiders for example.

Just for the fun of it I checked Spotrac on Ben Watson. $3Million but no information or guaranteed or dead cap. If he can get that as I stated I just don't see how Rudolph at 29 can't get at least double that.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/14/2019 12:42:38 AM >

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Post #: 4246

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:39:57 AM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

You miss a very obvious option. He gets cut and makes less.

No. First off the Vikings wouldn't cut him when they can trade him. Unless all the reports of teams making trade offers are lies. Makes zero sense. Even assuming he gets cut he signs for about the same as he is getting based on FA contracts for TEs. Rudolph holds all the cards in this standoff.

My god, you can misconstrue information. Show me one report of "teams making trade offers". All I've seen is teams have "interest". Teams also had interest in Waynes. One the teams connected to Ruddy, NE, just went out and signed another veteran TE.

You believe he signs for the same. I don't.

I've seen the FA TE numbers. Based on that I think he can easily sign for the same. As for Patriots signing Ben Watson isn't he like 100 years old and just came out of retirement. Honestly I don't think that would factor in much unless they gave him significant guaranteed money. There are more TE needy teams than the Patriots. The Cowboys and Raiders for example.

Just for the fun of it I checked Spotrac on Ben Watson. $2Million total $1.75 million dead cap. They are keeping him, but that gives then one NFL quality backup TE. Still need a starter.

Still waiting for a link that shows the Vikes have received trade offers.

Check to see what other TE moves NE has made this offseason. Not the only one. Beyond that, NE never pays market rate for guys like Rudy.

While your on Spotrac, research the numbers. Teams with more than 15M in cap. 3-5M for draft picks (not sure where everyone is with signing their picks), 8M for Rudy, and another 3-5M for in-cap season. Cowboys have a lot of mouths to feed in Dak, Elliot, and Cooper. That's close to 70M/yr right there. You're nuts if you think they'll pay almost 8M for him. Plus Witten is back.

Rudy will need multiple teams interested to get full market. I don't think that market materializes.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/14/2019 12:43:33 AM >

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Post #: 4247

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:47:49 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

Andrew Krammer@Andrew_Krammer
11m11 minutes ago
Kyle Rudolph sheds light on his contract status, saying he won’t take a pay cut to his $7.625M left on his deal. Wants resolution to impasse with #Vikings as soon as possible.

I don't think he's with the Vikes at 7.6M. I doubt he gets that if cut. His best outcome might be a trade if he wants to make that much this year. I'd be ok with a 1 year extension. Total 10M for this year and next with most of guaranteed.

I was looking forward to Ruddy in two TE formations with Smith. But it is a business. If he isn't willing to work with the team, time to move on.

You're suggesting he take 2.4 million for another year. That's basically asking him to bend over and grab his ankles.

Adding a year and increasing guarantees while reducing the AY is a common practice.

I get that but the additional year at less than 1/3 his current pay. Never going to happen. If he is garbage now sure. He actually has nothing guaranteed. $10 million is better than nothing. However he can force the Vikings to either play him or trade him. Collect his $7.625 million this year and sign for similar as an FA next year.

You miss a very obvious option. He gets cut and makes less.

No. First off the Vikings wouldn't cut him when they can trade him. Unless all the reports of teams making trade offers are lies. Makes zero sense. Even assuming he gets cut he signs for about the same as he is getting based on FA contracts for TEs. Rudolph holds all the cards in this standoff.

My god, you can misconstrue information. Show me one report of "teams making trade offers". All I've seen is teams have "interest". Teams also had interest in Waynes. One the teams connected to Ruddy, NE, just went out and signed another veteran TE.

You believe he signs for the same. I don't.

I've seen the FA TE numbers. Based on that I think he can easily sign for the same. As for Patriots signing Ben Watson isn't he like 100 years old and just came out of retirement. Honestly I don't think that would factor in much unless they gave him significant guaranteed money. There are more TE needy teams than the Patriots. The Cowboys and Raiders for example.

Just for the fun of it I checked Spotrac on Ben Watson. $2Million total $1.75 million dead cap. They are keeping him, but that gives then one NFL quality backup TE. Still need a starter.

Still waiting for a link that shows the Vikes have received trade offers.

Check to see what other TE moves NE has made this offseason. Not the only one. Beyond that, NE never pays market rate for guys like Rudy.

While your on Spotrac, research the numbers. Teams with more than 15M in cap. 3-5M for draft picks (not sure where everyone is with signing their picks), 8M for Rudy, and another 3-5M for in-cap season. Cowboys have a lot of mouths to feed in Dak, Elliot, and Cooper. You're nuts if you think they'll pay almost 8M for him. Plus Witten is back.

Rudy will need multiple teams interested to get full market. I don't think that market materializes.

I forgot about Witten (37) thanks for the reminder. I actually looked at the wrong/2018 numbers for Watson. He's getting $3 million for 2019, but no guaranteed or dead cap numbers available.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/14/2019 12:54:10 AM >

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Post #: 4248

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:52:30 AM

Pager

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NE also signed Austin Seferian-Jenkins. I don't think Rudy adds anything he and Watson can't already provide. And not at 8M/yr.

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Post #: 4249

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2019 12:54:55 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33802
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

NE also signed Austin Seferian-Jenkins. I don't think Rudy adds anything he and Watson can't already provide. And not at 8M/yr.

ASJ is terrible and signed for $867K no dead cap can just waive him bye bye. Watson is a dinosaur.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/14/2019 12:57:57 AM >

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Post #: 4250