quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Irv Smith averaged over 16 yards per catch and scored 7 TD's last year. He is going to be dynamic for us, too. At least, that's the plan. I realize he's a very young rookie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Blocking notwithstanding, it's interesting that Morgan is the only player on field slower than Rudolph ... yet some posters want to get rid of Rudolph (because he's slow) and want Morgan to be more involved in the passing game.

OK.

I don't think it's a certainty that Morgan is slower than Rudolph. Rudy's last measured time in the 40 was from 2011. Morgan was quicker in the cone drills as well for whatever that counts for. At any rate no one is advocating for Morgan to replace Rudolph. Speaking just for myself I'd say that I'd like to see Smith/Conklin replace Rudolph as they are both faster than him and might actually break a tackle once in a while. I'd also like to see Morgan targeted once or twice per game to keep defenses honest.

I think it counts for a lot.

If you have 2 guys that aren't fast, I'll take the one with some more "wiggle" to his game. If we throw a 5 yard pass to either guy on 3rd and 7, I think Morgan has a better chance of getting the extra 2 yards.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Irv Smith averaged over 16 yards per catch and scored 7 TD's last year. He is going to be dynamic for us, too. At least, that's the plan. I realize he's a very young rookie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Irv Smith averaged over 16 yards per catch and scored 7 TD's last year. He is going to be dynamic for us, too. At least, that's the plan. I realize he's a very young rookie.

He lined up as both a FB and H Back, as well as lining up in multiple spots along the line of scrimmage in college. He could really help make our offense less predictable if we are able utilize him like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Blocking notwithstanding, it's interesting that Morgan is the only player on field slower than Rudolph ... yet some posters want to get rid of Rudolph (because he's slow) and want Morgan to be more involved in the passing game.

OK.

I don't think it's a certainty that Morgan is slower than Rudolph. Rudy's last measured time in the 40 was from 2011. Morgan was quicker in the cone drills as well for whatever that counts for. At any rate no one is advocating for Morgan to replace Rudolph. Speaking just for myself I'd say that I'd like to see Smith/Conklin replace Rudolph as they are both faster than him and might actually break a tackle once in a while. I'd also like to see Morgan targeted once or twice per game to keep defenses honest.

I think it counts for a lot.

If you have 2 guys that aren't fast, I'll take the one with some more "wiggle" to his game. If we throw a 5 yard pass to either guy on 3rd and 7, I think Morgan has a better chance of getting the extra 2 yards.

Especially since he's already done it. Morgan has looked good to me in limited viewing at getting separation in space close to the line, catching the ball, and occasionally actually doing something after the catch. Even if he's 80% of Rudy as a receiver (and I think he's better than that), he's way more than 120% better as a blocker, which we are looking to have our TE's doing at least 50% of the time in Zimmer's mind. Smith + Morgan give more versatility to the offense than Smith + Rudy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Irv Smith averaged over 16 yards per catch and scored 7 TD's last year. He is going to be dynamic for us, too. At least, that's the plan. I realize he's a very young rookie.

That would be great. but it is my understanding that Rookie TEs have a terrible track record of production. Rudolph is almost certain to be the more productive of the two starting TEs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

You all are welcome to continue debating but odds are at least 90% that Rudolph will be here all year and be by far the primary receiving TE. This is a good thing. It would be great if the other Three TEs who totaled 12 NFL receptions last year can be really productive also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Waynes is gonna cost at least 10M. Deferring salary is a dangerous game, it always catches up with you. And dead cap kills teams (look at how much bills were carrying in dead cap either last yr or yr before).

If you do give Waynes 10M, you'll have 3 on the D Line, 2 linebackers, and 3 out of 4 DBs all making more than 10M. That's not sustainable. Pls we gotta sign Harris if we cant to keep him Last yr as restricted FA.

If you resign MAC (my preference - slot corners make 7-9M). You still have Mac, Hughes, Hill, and Rhodes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Last I checked only 11 personal were allowed on the field.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Last I checked only 11 personal were allowed on the field.

That's what they all it when there are two tight ends in the formation. Maybe you knew that and I missed a joke.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_grouping_(gridiron_football)#Numerical_Naming

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Blocking notwithstanding, it's interesting that Morgan is the only player on field slower than Rudolph ... yet some posters want to get rid of Rudolph (because he's slow) and want Morgan to be more involved in the passing game.

OK.

I don't think it's a certainty that Morgan is slower than Rudolph. Rudy's last measured time in the 40 was from 2011. Morgan was quicker in the cone drills as well for whatever that counts for. At any rate no one is advocating for Morgan to replace Rudolph. Speaking just for myself I'd say that I'd like to see Smith/Conklin replace Rudolph as they are both faster than him and might actually break a tackle once in a while. I'd also like to see Morgan targeted once or twice per game to keep defenses honest.

I think it counts for a lot.

If you have 2 guys that aren't fast, I'll take the one with some more "wiggle" to his game. If we throw a 5 yard pass to either guy on 3rd and 7, I think Morgan has a better chance of getting the extra 2 yards.

Especially since he's already done it. Morgan has looked good to me in limited viewing at getting separation in space close to the line, catching the ball, and occasionally actually doing something after the catch. Even if he's 80% of Rudy as a receiver (and I think he's better than that), he's way more than 120% better as a blocker, which we are looking to have our TE's doing at least 50% of the time in Zimmer's mind. Smith + Morgan give more versatility to the offense than Smith + Rudy.

Morgan has caught 15 passes I think over his three seasons. Yep he's going to be a monster in receiving production.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Waynes is gonna cost at least 10M. Deferring salary is a dangerous game, it always catches up with you. And dead cap kills teams (look at how much bills were carrying in dead cap either last yr or yr before).

If you do give Waynes 10M, you'll have 3 on the D Line, 2 linebackers, and 3 out of 4 DBs all making more than 10M. That's not sustainable. Pls we gotta sign Harris if we cant to keep him Last yr as restricted FA.

If you resign MAC (my preference - slot corners make 7-9M). You still have Mac, Hughes, Hill, and Rhodes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Waynes is gonna cost at least 10M. Deferring salary is a dangerous game, it always catches up with you. And dead cap kills teams (look at how much bills were carrying in dead cap either last yr or yr before).

If you do give Waynes 10M, you'll have 3 on the D Line, 2 linebackers, and 3 out of 4 DBs all making more than 10M. That's not sustainable. Pls we gotta sign Harris if we cant to keep him Last yr as restricted FA.

If you resign MAC (my preference - slot corners make 7-9M). You still have Mac, Hughes, Hill, and Rhodes.

So dead cap Kill Bill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Blocking notwithstanding, it's interesting that Morgan is the only player on field slower than Rudolph ... yet some posters want to get rid of Rudolph (because he's slow) and want Morgan to be more involved in the passing game.

OK.

Nobody has advocated that dude. The discussion has been Morgan playing the same role he has now in 2 TE sets. You seem to forget that we drafted a TE in the second round. That's who people figure to get Rudolph's snaps.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Morgan is in to block and he's good at that. How many plays is he even in the game?

According to this article, the Vikings rushed nearly twice as much when Morgan played in the game. Football is still a team game and you can't just go by individual stats. Also, I do believe the team wants to be more committed to the running game this year to support Cousins better.

https://www.vikings.com/news/2018-vikings-position-recap-tight-ends

Yes Bruce, I understand that Morgan has always been a primary blocking TE and he is very good at it. However, 12 personnel requires both TEs to be receiving threats. Morgan has demonstrated no ability at this.

Blocking notwithstanding, it's interesting that Morgan is the only player on field slower than Rudolph ... yet some posters want to get rid of Rudolph (because he's slow) and want Morgan to be more involved in the passing game.

OK.

Nobody has advocated that dude. The discussion has been Morgan playing the same role he has now in 2 TE sets. You seem to forget that we drafted a TE in the second round. That's who people figure to get Rudolph's snaps.

I never said posters were calling for replacing Rudolph with Morgan.

I am saying it is comical that some posters are going on and on about dropping Rudy and how his lack of speed, his yards after catch, etc. is holding back the offense.

While pulling for 15-REC-Morgan (whose slower than some of our OL) to get more involved in the passing game.

And thanks for unnecessary draft update.