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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 3:08:12 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline 		Courtney Cronin Twitter:

Kaare Vedvik was 5-8 on field goals in practice today. 4 outside, 4 inside after they moved practice inside. Missed the first two, including one from 33 yards that went way wide left.
Post #: 6976
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 4:40:04 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline 		Seems as though the odds are they'll go with Bailey given Vedvik's placekicking issues. If so, the trade for Vedvik will be one of the quickest to show poor value, even if he ends up punting and kicking off. At the time, I was in favor of the trade, given Bailey's struggles.
Post #: 6977
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 4:54:47 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Interesting comment here.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1165791322122440704

He has a number of videos with commentary. Too many to link individually.

I couldn't tell for sure if he was in or out. I know he would have been in if he had tapped the right toe instead of bringing his foot all the way down.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 6978
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 5:31:51 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Seems as though the odds are they'll go with Bailey given Vedvik's placekicking issues. If so, the trade for Vedvik will be one of the quickest to show poor value, even if he ends up punting and kicking off. At the time, I was in favor of the trade, given Bailey's struggles.


I still think it was a weird trade.

Dude was 10/16 on FGAs for his college career*. And Zim doesn't seem like a guy who would be swayed by YouTube videos...

I'm not even sure he's that good of a punter. He kicks them pretty far, but not very high and not with a lot of hang time.

*(For comparison, Matt Wile was 15/21 on FGAs as a Sr).
Post #: 6979
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 6:25:31 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		He's got a big leg. That can not be denied and that is an issue with Bailey. There very well might be better options available on the street in a few days. I don't know what they should do. If it was a college team he would be the kickoff and long field goal guy. This team is very deep and the cuts will be excruciating. The original appeal to me was the savings of a roster spot. Now it looks like it could be the opposite.

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6980
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 6:34:34 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77939
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		I never believed he'd save a roster spot - I figured he'd likely take Wile's job. There just is no such thing as a kicker/punter at the NFL level.

I think the last team that really tried it was the Falcons with the "Michael Koenen disaster" of more than a decade ago.
Post #: 6981
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 6:48:02 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Seems as though the odds are they'll go with Bailey given Vedvik's placekicking issues. If so, the trade for Vedvik will be one of the quickest to show poor value, even if he ends up punting and kicking off. At the time, I was in favor of the trade, given Bailey's struggles.


I still think it was a weird trade.

Dude was 10/16 on FGAs for his college career*. And Zim doesn't seem like a guy who would be swayed by YouTube videos...

I'm not even sure he's that good of a punter. He kicks them pretty far, but not very high and not with a lot of hang time.

*(For comparison, Matt Wile was 15/21 on FGAs as a Sr).

Yes, it was a weird trade. How often does an undrafted kicker with no regular season track record command a 5th round pick? The relatively high price had me thinking he was a sure thing (as much as that is possible), since Spielman can be pretty stingy with draft picks.

I was fine with Wile, seems better than Locke or Quigley. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Post #: 6982
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 6:50:16 PM   
odin


Posts: 2306
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		Any interest in Treadwell for Josh Dachshund? Seems like a natural swap of two busts. He doesn't play special teams AFAIK, however.


washington-trying-to-trade-josh-doctson-before-opener

< Message edited by odin -- 8/27/2019 6:57:39 PM >
Post #: 6983
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 6:51:56 PM   
odin


Posts: 2306
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		double post

< Message edited by odin -- 8/27/2019 6:53:22 PM >
Post #: 6984
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 9:19:51 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		We spoiled the effort of the Bears they said. Perhaps we saved them a sixth round draft pick. I don't know. I want to root for him that he can succeed, right now.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6985
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2019 9:34:52 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I've been waiting for this. I tweeted with Daniel House and he told me that it would come out today and here it is.

http://www.mnvikingscorner.com/2019/08/upon-further-review-vikings-vs-cardinals.html

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6986
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 8:10:21 AM   
odin


Posts: 2306
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline 		I was wondering about some of Zimmer's motives recently and came up with some questions.

Why would he apparently rather have a lamb than a lion at QB? Perhaps having someone he perceives as a "gunslinger" at the QB position, even as the #2, creates the fear that his defense (his main identity, rather than the team as a whole?) might get put in bad positions and make him look like less of a guru. If the team (hypothetically) scores 56 more points and also allows 28 more points over a season as a result of the gunslinger's willingness to take measured risks, would he be happy with that?

Does Zimmer wants the team to rally around him and he's too insecure to handle his team rallying around/ responding to Sloter? Is that why he seemingly undermines Sloter at nearly every opportunity and reinforces that HE is the HMIC? Or...does he perceive Cousins as being too mentally skittish to handle Sloter being #2 without the buffer of Mannion between them?

Has his (job) insecurity made him too short-term of a thinker? Look at NE, most everything they do is with the long-term health of the team in mind, over time this has a positive snowball effect.

Disturbingly, Zimmer is reminding me of Childress with his "programmatic non-fit" type of comments when Moss was dumped and also his "tough guy" approach.

From a psychometric/mental health perspective: Have you noticed that the team not only seems to like to draft players who genuinely love the game and are highly intelligent, but are also not over-the-top narcissistic/toxic? This is great overall for team chemistry, but sometimes a very talented strong leader will march to his own drummer and the team will rally around him in a positive way and it is something the coach needs to be secure enough to handle without cutting off his nose to spite his face.

< Message edited by odin -- 8/28/2019 8:14:24 AM >
Post #: 6987
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 9:23:54 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: odin

I was wondering about some of Zimmer's motives recently and came up with some questions.

Why would he apparently rather have a lamb than a lion at QB? Perhaps having someone he perceives as a "gunslinger" at the QB position, even as the #2, creates the fear that his defense (his main identity, rather than the team as a whole?) might get put in bad positions and make him look like less of a guru. If the team (hypothetically) scores 56 more points and also allows 28 more points over a season as a result of the gunslinger's willingness to take measured risks, would he be happy with that?

Does Zimmer wants the team to rally around him and he's too insecure to handle his team rallying around/ responding to Sloter? Is that why he seemingly undermines Sloter at nearly every opportunity and reinforces that HE is the HMIC? Or...does he perceive Cousins as being too mentally skittish to handle Sloter being #2 without the buffer of Mannion between them?

Has his (job) insecurity made him too short-term of a thinker? Look at NE, most everything they do is with the long-term health of the team in mind, over time this has a positive snowball effect.

Disturbingly, Zimmer is reminding me of Childress with his "programmatic non-fit" type of comments when Moss was dumped and also his "tough guy" approach.

From a psychometric/mental health perspective: Have you noticed that the team not only seems to like to draft players who genuinely love the game and are highly intelligent, but are also not over-the-top narcissistic/toxic? This is great overall for team chemistry, but sometimes a very talented strong leader will march to his own drummer and the team will rally around him in a positive way and it is something the coach needs to be secure enough to handle without cutting off his nose to spite his face.


I think the problem has been the resources spent on the defense versus Oline and improving the Offense. I think drafting C Bradbury, Mattison, and the TE Smith as well has using other draft resources Udoh, Samia, and signing Kline will pay off.

The problem when Zimmer first arrived is that they fixed the defense right away but he has still used too many resources on that side.....not sure if that is narcissistic or just what he knows best. By getting Kubiak in here to solve the oline issues and him having a voice in what to do on offense will help. Even though the resources were spent on defense they originally had to be almost near perfect and use the double A gap blitz, cb blitz, and be very aggressive which wore out the defense by the time playoffs happened. They should be able to save the defense more this year with a healthy Cook, drafting Mattison, Smith, and getting some oline pieces.

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6988
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 9:29:23 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		Zimmer has a mentality toward QBs that just makes him a bad HC... great DC but poor choice for total control guy who can micromanage all phases with tact and rational team friendly decisions that allows the team to grow and best players to develop and blossom to their potential....

He should be isolated from the offensive side of the games decisions completely and assistant coaches and O coordinators who tried that approach were shown the door (Norv, Flipp) Zimmer has no biz making evaluations of QBs skill sets or commenting to the media on their game as he has in past seasons, he undermines his own team chemistry with players with his old cronnie hard nosed ways and has no clue.

His style and coaching works great for lunch pail type D players who buy in and are his pet players in schemes and strengths he understands... The rest of the phases he just needs to stay out of and let his positional coaches deal with...

He is a killer of psyche in players with high pressure roles, especially KICKERS and QBs with his ways... When you have kickers constantly super up tight on our team and under preforming and QBs wound so tight they are screaming at their top receivers and not trusting others its a mess....
Post #: 6989
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 9:36:23 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Zimmer has a mentality toward QBs that just makes him a bad HC... great DC but poor choice for total control guy who can micromanage all phases with tact and rational team friendly decisions that allows the team to grow and best players to develop and blossom to their potential....

He should be isolated from the offensive side of the games decisions completely and assistant coaches and O coordinators who tried that approach were shown the door (Norv, Flipp) Zimmer has no biz making evaluations of QBs skill sets or commenting to the media on their game as he has in past seasons, he undermines his own team chemistry with players with his old cronnie hard nosed ways and has no clue.

His style and coaching works great for lunch pail type D players who buy in and are his pet players in schemes and strengths he understands... The rest of the phases he just needs to stay out of and let his positional coaches deal with...

He is a killer of psyche in players with high pressure roles, especially KICKERS and QBs with his ways... When you have kickers constantly super up tight on our team and under preforming and QBs wound so tight they are screaming at their top receivers and not trusting others its a mess....


I totally disagree. Teddy and Case Keenum performed at their best under Zimmer. Cousins is in his 2nd season so that is a wait and see. How many OC have we gone thru since Zimmer was here? Our best OC is now the NYG coach and Zimmer let him do what he wanted as I assume he will with Stepanski and Kubiak.

Yes Zimmer rattled Carlson and Walsh hasn't been able to stick with anyone since. We need to get the right kicker in here.

There is a lot of screaming every game that you don't see when you winning.....let the season play out a bit.

Zimmer isn't perfect but he has always brought former HC when possible to fix weaknesses (Sporano, Norv, Kubiak, Shurmur) so I don't think he can be considered a know it all or narcisstic when you look at that.

I don't think he has old crony ways---he just had to put more resources into the offense this past offseason and he did and/or listened to Kubiak and Spielman in that regard.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/28/2019 9:47:04 AM >

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Post #: 6990
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 9:44:05 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45021
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Zimmer has a mentality toward QBs that just makes him a bad HC... great DC but poor choice for total control guy who can micromanage all phases with tact and rational team friendly decisions that allows the team to grow and best players to develop and blossom to their potential....

He should be isolated from the offensive side of the games decisions completely and assistant coaches and O coordinators who tried that approach were shown the door (Norv, Flipp) Zimmer has no biz making evaluations of QBs skill sets or commenting to the media on their game as he has in past seasons, he undermines his own team chemistry with players with his old cronnie hard nosed ways and has no clue.

His style and coaching works great for lunch pail type D players who buy in and are his pet players in schemes and strengths he understands... The rest of the phases he just needs to stay out of and let his positional coaches deal with...

He is a killer of psyche in players with high pressure roles, especially KICKERS and QBs with his ways... When you have kickers constantly super up tight on our team and under preforming and QBs wound so tight they are screaming at their top receivers and not trusting others its a mess....


I totally disagree. Teddy and Case Keenum performed at their best under Zimmer. Cousins is in his 2nd season so that is a wait and see. How many OC have we gone thru since Zimmer was here? Our best OC is now the NYG coach and Zimmer let him do what he wanted as I assume he will with Stepanski and Kubiak.

Yes Zimmer rattled Carlson and Walsh hasn't been able to stick with anyone since. We need to get the right kicker in here.

There is a lot of screaming every game that you don't see when you winning.....let the season play out a bit.

Teddy and Case are pretty poor indicators of Zimmer being a HC who helps QB's succeed.
Teddy's best year was a QB rating of 88.7
Keenum had a year where an endless series of blind gambles worked out until the horseshoe fell out of his ass in the playoffs and he has reverted to form ever since.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 6991
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 10:04:21 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		Zimmer is no Bill B... sorry...

Zimmers teams are wildly inconsistant... great starts to seasons and then fall apart, huge one year and flop the next... injuries sure, but overall in hindsight many wins were in spite of Zimmers coaching or lack of...
Post #: 6992
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 10:31:51 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Too much negativity here for the eve of what could be the most special season ever. I'm a Zimmer guy. I love him as the coach. The team is all in to win this season. So am I.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6993
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 10:44:51 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...

I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...

The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....
Post #: 6994
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 10:53:46 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39282
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I'm all over this one.

One note from Vikings walk-throughs today: It was just the team's projected starters and players unlikely to play in the fourth preseason game. Bisi Johnson was in that group. So if it wasn't clear before, expect Johnson to make the team's 53-man roster.

(Chad Graff on Twitter)


He might be winning the WR3 job over Beebe

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Post #: 6995
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 11:08:46 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...

I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...

The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....


Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.

RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6996
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 11:37:52 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...

I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...

The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....


Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.

RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

That's what some fans just dont get... WE have no impetus on multi billion dollar entertainment businesses that are eager to suck the money out of our pockets... I choose not to buy into what the WWE or "Pro Wrestling" is selling and Im very skeptical of the NFL products...

I have no ability or interest in fix anything or even lament the fact of it ills like so many of you... I take whats spoon fed to me and if it tastes like sh!t I quit consuming so much of it and await a change in ingredients...
Post #: 6997
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 11:42:30 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45021
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...

I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...

The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....


Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.

RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

I didn't get that from his post at all. He said some key pieces are in place and listed some variables that we have to see how they play out. The O system and the O line are in fact new and unproven. Cousins does have questions to answer. The kicking game has been well chronicled. Pointing these out is not writing off the season.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 6998
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 11:47:22 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

The team is all in to win every year, this is what gets fans to buy in and spend their money...

I will agree that some key pieces are in place, but huge variables in all with yet again new O system and O line as well as a QB with unlimited upside in skill set yet a propensity to play down when the lights shine brightest...

The kicking game is a microcosm of team whole under Zimmmer and will define his legacy....


Who would you rather have coach this team? Who would you rather have at QB? What other GM do you want? Which kicker would you rather have here? If you are going to throw the negative spaghetti against the wall you better have ways to fix what you feel ills the team.

RAGnarok we haven't played one game yet and you are already done for this year.

I didn't get that from his post at all. He said some key pieces are in place and listed some variables that we have to see how they play out. The O system and the O line are in fact new and unproven. Cousins does have questions to answer. The kicking game has been well chronicled. Pointing these out is not writing off the season.


I should have quoted his earlier post....read that and get back to me.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 6999
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/28/2019 11:48:00 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Zimmer has a mentality toward QBs that just makes him a bad HC... great DC but poor choice for total control guy who can micromanage all phases with tact and rational team friendly decisions that allows the team to grow and best players to develop and blossom to their potential....

He should be isolated from the offensive side of the games decisions completely and assistant coaches and O coordinators who tried that approach were shown the door (Norv, Flipp) Zimmer has no biz making evaluations of QBs skill sets or commenting to the media on their game as he has in past seasons, he undermines his own team chemistry with players with his old cronnie hard nosed ways and has no clue.

His style and coaching works great for lunch pail type D players who buy in and are his pet players in schemes and strengths he understands... The rest of the phases he just needs to stay out of and let his positional coaches deal with...

He is a killer of psyche in players with high pressure roles, especially KICKERS and QBs with his ways... When you have kickers constantly super up tight on our team and under preforming and QBs wound so tight they are screaming at their top receivers and not trusting others its a mess....


This one.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 7000
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