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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/14/2018 5:47:49 PM   
stfrank

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terry Stoneberg

My 1 cent. (not worth 2).

When Turner left, and Shurmer took over, it was a breath of fresh air because I could no longer guess what the next play would be with any certainty, and neither could opposing defenses.

Then Shurmer went to NY and we got Flip. I hoped maybe we would see some of the creativity that Philly had last year. But after 1 half of the first game I thought, Turner is back at the helm. Not because Flip called the game like Turner, but because, like the Turner era, I was beginning to successfully guess what the next play call would be no matter what the situation. At the beginning of the season I thought perhaps Flip was just getting used to the tools at his disposal. I also didn't mind so much because we won more than we lost. But I got the horrible feeling that when we did well on offense it was because of the truly breathtaking skills of Theilen and Diggs and even Cook and Cousins to some extent, not to an OC creatively exploiting the strengths of all his players.

I'm going to be watching the Stefanski era with great interest because I'm hoping for a return to the unpredictability of the Shurmer era. After all, Shurmer wanted him as the Giants OC (very good sign to me).

FWIW, it seemed to me that Flip was unwilling or unable to bend his scheme to the skills of our players. I'm an old O-Line guy and unlike most of you I see a fair amount of skill in that group that has never been used as well as it was during the Shurmer era, especially in the running game. It's as though the way to get better is to strengthen the things at which you are weakest instead of perfecting the things that you do well. If you are not good at zone blocking don't use the game to practice your zone skills. (In fact don't even use the weekly practices to improve your weaknesses. Do that only in training camp.) If you've got a quy who excels in down blocking but is weak in handling a strong speed rusher in pass protection, don't put him on an island against Kalil Mack with a straight drop back.

I watched the Chiefs game last night with a couple of friends who are Chiefs fans and I couldn't help but notice, I believe there are a lot of weakness on that offense, but Andy Reid simply never calls any of the plays that would expose any of them. That Chief's offense is dynamite, but their defense will do them in...shades of the 98 Vikings.

Anyway if Stefanski turns it around, I won't be surprised. I'll be very, very happy.

Nailed it! Every time we lined up I could guess with pretty good certainty what they were running just by the formation and player grouping. If an NFL fan like me that doesn't watch any games other than the Vikings can see that, our opponents have to be just licking their chops for the ball to snap.
It will be interesting to see if Stefanski will play to our strengths rather than his system.
Post #: 776
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/14/2018 5:54:46 PM   
Todd M

 

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My problem with this guessing the next play thing is in the group of limited plays they're willing to go with. I've called them cast off plays in the past. A play that simply exists with little expectation of much. That they're fine with a number of these being called/game as a strategy. They'd rather control than attack.
Post #: 777
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/14/2018 6:43:41 PM   
drviking


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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/14/al-riveron-admits-bobby-wagner-blocked-field-goal-should-have-been-flagged/


Woohoo

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"Only one thing left to do..."
Post #: 778
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/14/2018 7:25:34 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

My problem with this guessing the next play thing is in the group of limited plays they're willing to go with. I've called them cast off plays in the past. A play that simply exists with little expectation of much. That they're fine with a number of these being called/game as a strategy. They'd rather control than attack.

I gotta agree totally Todd! Great posts from you Terry etc! I'm definitely interested in seeing the new Coordinator. It would be nice if we attacked with impunity instead of wasting so many downs wouldn't it? I'm not sure why but I get the feeling we finally play a somewhat complete game this weekend. I'm going Vikes 30 - 17. Admittedly I haven't been good at picking games this year but I did have a pretty good feeling about the Chargers pulling it off last night. I also felt we really didnt stand a chance against the Seahawks and we were in it till the end. It's way past time to play a good game!
Post #: 779
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/14/2018 9:50:54 PM   
kwheats

 

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I am going to my first game at Us Bank Stadium Sunday. I have a good feeling that we will respond with a positive team win. I will be in section 136 Vikings side of the field corner of the end zone.
Post #: 780
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 7:57:46 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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The only way this offense will be effective is if Cousins settles down. His decision making was awful Monday night.

I'm not sure this can be fixed in a short week. we shall see.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 781
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 8:28:00 AM   
joejitsu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kwheats

I am going to my first game at Us Bank Stadium Sunday. I have a good feeling that we will respond with a positive team win. I will be in section 136 Vikings side of the field corner of the end zone.


Lucky! One of these days, I am going to make it there to take in a game. It looks like a great stadium. Way better than soldier field!
Post #: 782
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 9:29:29 AM   
Ricky J


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Here we go:




This game is so huge. Three more games and hopefully more - then a long off season to talk about the what ifs ... Come on Vikes, let's extend this baby for awhile
Post #: 783
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 9:34:51 AM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: drviking

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/14/al-riveron-admits-bobby-wagner-blocked-field-goal-should-have-been-flagged/


Woohoo


Yeah, play like dog shit and still have a rightful opportunity to go ahead under 5 min to go against this seasons newest darlings.

What a season.

I'd love more than anything to right this ship and give us all an incredible ending!

- hey doc!
Post #: 784
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 9:44:39 AM   
Ricky J


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I know this article was posted before (so, sorry) but I really didn't think you could run the ball "unsuccessfully" as much as Zimmer wants and still succeed.

I guess it shows you what I know.

The problem is Zimmer’s desires also made sense. Last season the Vikings ran the ball 31.3 times a game, second-most in the league only to Jacksonville. They weren’t particularly good at running—with a middling O-line and unimaginative Latavius Murray they averaged 3.9 yards per attempt, 23rd in the league—but to a coach like Zimmer, that’s not necessarily the point. It’s about controlling the game’s flow.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/11/john-defilippo-firing-offensive-coordinator-mike-zimmer-minnesota-vikings
Post #: 785
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 11:12:31 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Viking.com videos

Question: Do you expect to see more runs?

Matt Birk: ... maybe a couple more but you are who you are. This team is at it's best when you throw to set up the run.

Zim's coaching record with running (I'm sure many of you have seen it but here it is anyway):

20+ runs a game, record is 45-14
-20 runs a game, 0-16-1

The old "why run and try to win 13-10 in this new age NFL?" will come up.

When actually if we run well we can play action and get medium to deep shots with passing game.

Vikes 41 Dolphins 17

Wow! Don't make foolish forecasts like this just to attempt to prove you're a bigger Vikings fan than another. This is as close to insane as you possibly be.

Vikings 23 Dolphins 20

And this is a stretch predicting a Vikings victory.

Come on Brad-lite. Relax.

I'm thinking playing at home and new OC gives us a bump. Plus Miami will crash after miracle just like we did last year.
Post #: 786
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 1:10:18 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

The only way this offense will be effective is if Cousins settles down. His decision making was awful Monday night.

I'm not sure this can be fixed in a short week. we shall see.


Offensive line.
Post #: 787
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 6:17:44 PM   
marty


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Miami - Game 1 of an incredible 7 game winning streak for the Vikings.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 788
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2018 6:50:30 PM   
ambear

 

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Evening gents, haven't posted for some time though check in from time to time. Been a rough year, I usually work weekends thankfully, so I'm spared most of the humiliation that I know is coming. To me, getting humiliated is worse than losing. When I hear the opposing team knowing the play beforehand, then I lose my shit with this team. Hoping for the best and planning for the usual. I do hope everyone here has a safe and great holiday season. Hope does spring eternal and I'm always grateful for just one more game!!
Post #: 789
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 12:24:03 AM   
JT2

 

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It's the Dolphins. At home. Dolphins won a road game three months ago. This is the worst defense we will face all year. We have some issues, but we're not that bad. We destroy them.

Further prediction, after we crush them, many Viking fans will anoint Stefanski the best OC since.......DeFilippo
Post #: 790
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 9:04:53 AM   
Ricky J


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It’s not the X’s and the O’s, it’s the Jimmys and the Joes.

- Let's do this!
Post #: 791
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 9:33:15 AM   
Ricky J


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Pressure is staring right back at Vikings coach Mike Zimmer

DECEMBER 16, 2018 — 12:02AM

Mike Zimmer’s daughter revealed this week that the stress of coaching a faltering team has caused her father to lose 16 pounds.

Zimmer denied this. He said he’s lost 17.

If being Mike Zimmer is that difficult, imagine what it’s like to be Mike Zimmer’s offensive coordinator, or kicker.

Zimmer has experienced midseason breakups with two offensive coordinators in three years, with Norv Turner leaving in anger in 2016 and John DeFilippo being fired this week.

By early December of DeFilippo’s first season with the Vikings, Zimmer was publicly critiquing him. Zimmer has cut two kickers who were drafted by the Vikings in his five seasons as head coach.

After firing DeFilippo, Zimmer elevated longtime Vikings assistant Kevin Stefanski to the offensive coordinator job. When former offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur left to become head coach of the New York Giants after last season, Zimmer and Spielman hired DeFilippo and blocked Stefanski from leaving to become Shurmur’s offensive coordinator.

Publicly critiquing subordinates. Firing coaches. Cutting kickers. Blocking departures. Zimmer has the prerogative to make all of these decisions, and the responsibility to do what he believes is best for his team.

Is this approach what is best for his team?

Jeff Diamond, the former Vikings general manager and NFL executive of the year, sees Zimmer mimicking one of his mentors, legendary Giants coach Bill Parcells.

“I think it’s his upbringing in the coaching profession that influences that personality,’’ Diamond said. “He’s a Parcells disciple. That’s the way Parcells was. There would be players he would love and embrace. Lawrence Taylor, for example, even though Lawrence had his issues off the field. Parcells loved him, but he would butt heads with [quarterback] Phil Simms from time to time.’’

Diamond noted that Parcells and Zimmer were more likely to criticize offensive players, coaches and kickers than anyone involved with the defense. “You never hear him talking about his defensive coaches, just his offensive coaches,’’ Diamond said. “That’s the way it rolls here.’’

Diamond also said he thinks Zimmer is a quality coach who is likely to make the playoffs again this season.

Zimmer’s record with the Vikings is an impressive 45-31-1. He has made the playoffs twice in his first four seasons.

He won 13 games last year with a backup quarterback and a backup running back. He is a renowned defensive teacher and strategist, and was popular with fans and reporters as a coordinator in his three previous NFL stops.

He also seemed to tighten up during the second half of the playoff game against the Saints in January, allowing New Orleans to stage a dramatic comeback that was erased by the Minneapolis Miracle. The next week, his defense was shredded by the Philadelphia Eagles.

I’ve been interviewing people about Zimmer for five years, and this week I spoke with a few who have worked with him. Even off the record, they say little more than what we’ve heard frequently on the record.

When the Vikings acquired former Bengals safety George Iloka this summer, Iloka said: “Zim is Zim. You will always know where you stand, because he will always let you know.’’

Zimmer has been tough on offensive coordinators and kickers. He was reserved in his praise of Case Keenum last season. He has been notably loyal to special teams coach Mike Priefer, despite the failures of multiple kickers and punters.

Zimmer is entitled to that approach but should beware of the perils of modern coaching. Even good coaches get fired if they don’t win big, or if they are not deemed the right person to lead a franchise to a championship.

Zimmer can salvage this season and perhaps calm his stomach with a playoff berth and a playoff victory. Anything less, and the Wilfs may wonder how such a well-funded and talented team has earned just one playoff victory since 2009.

- Jim Souhan
Post #: 792
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 9:42:18 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It's the Dolphins. At home. Dolphins won a road game three months ago. This is the worst defense we will face all year. We have some issues, but we're not that bad. We destroy them.

Further prediction, after we crush them, many Viking fans will anoint Stefanski the best OC since.......DeFilippo


They have a better record than we do. I don't understand some of the optimism going into this game. The Dolphins are probably looking at this game and licking their chops too.
Post #: 793
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 10:05:57 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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I doubt Stefanski had any time to install new plays nor many scheme changes.

However, I'm sure it will bring some unpredictable play calling which can't hurt.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 794
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 10:36:06 AM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It's the Dolphins. At home. Dolphins won a road game three months ago. This is the worst defense we will face all year. We have some issues, but we're not that bad. We destroy them.

Further prediction, after we crush them, many Viking fans will anoint Stefanski the best OC since.......DeFilippo



Good stuff.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 795
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 11:29:31 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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This regime's narrative so far: they are 2-2 making the playoffs. We win today, we keep alive the possibility of 3 playoff berths in 5 years. With two division titles and a NFC Championship game.

That's not my standard or anybody else's in here ... but that's probably how the regime will evaluate themselves as an organization (lowest bar=job security).

The fans narrative pre-game today is more like, a playoff game record of 1-2, a dismal performance against the eagles, falling short against the Seahawks, and the bad performance vs high expectations of 2016/2018. (there is much more, I'm just talking generalities)

Miss the playoffs, the bad narrative gets much worse and is taken out of the hands of the HC and GM.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 12/16/2018 11:31:39 AM >
Post #: 796
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 11:34:07 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I doubt Stefanski had any time to install new plays nor many scheme changes.

However, I'm sure it will bring some unpredictable play calling which can't hurt.

I'm hoping – from reports – that he is taking input from his offensive weapons. I am praying that input outweighs the input from Zimmer.
Post #: 797
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 12:20:45 PM   
marty


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Zimmer has been tough on offensive coordinators and kickers. He was reserved in his praise of Case Keenum last season. He has been notably loyal to special teams coach Mike Priefer, despite the failures of multiple kickers and punters.

So Zimmer must see special teams as just a defensive unit ? If that is the case, someone should tell him it's just as much or more of an OFFENSIVE unit [pun intended], so that Priefer can be sent packing.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 798
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 2:50:29 PM   
bohumm

 

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From: Altadena, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Viking.com videos

Question: Do you expect to see more runs?

Matt Birk: ... maybe a couple more but you are who you are. This team is at it's best when you throw to set up the run.

Zim's coaching record with running (I'm sure many of you have seen it but here it is anyway):

20+ runs a game, record is 45-14
-20 runs a game, 0-16-1

The old "why run and try to win 13-10 in this new age NFL?" will come up.

When actually if we run well we can play action and get medium to deep shots with passing game.

Vikes 41 Dolphins 17

With 7:49 left, Mark calls for the four-corners offense.....
Post #: 799
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/16/2018 3:04:40 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Viking.com videos

Question: Do you expect to see more runs?

Matt Birk: ... maybe a couple more but you are who you are. This team is at it's best when you throw to set up the run.

Zim's coaching record with running (I'm sure many of you have seen it but here it is anyway):

20+ runs a game, record is 45-14
-20 runs a game, 0-16-1

The old "why run and try to win 13-10 in this new age NFL?" will come up.

When actually if we run well we can play action and get medium to deep shots with passing game.

Vikes 41 Dolphins 17

Wow! Don't make foolish forecasts like this just to attempt to prove you're a bigger Vikings fan than another. This is as close to insane as you possibly be.

Vikings 23 Dolphins 20

And this is a stretch predicting a Vikings victory.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Foolish indeed.
Post #: 800
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