RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season

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RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:01:52 AM

SoMnFan

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Getting younger, and freeing some space
While not really stepping down or backwards
What's not to like?

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Post #: 1251

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:03:03 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Good stuff guys
Agree on your takes
Coaster is a good word for him
Just enough to tease

His world just changed
You go THERE, and you go half-assed, and you DONE
Very few people can fulfill the Pens expectations.
He'll get scrutiny like he's never felt before.
And stay calm thru the initial success, because he will probably have it. It won't last tho.

He was a whiner for no reason either....you don't get to be 1st or 2nd line just because, production necessary.

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Post #: 1252

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:04:29 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Yeap. This pretty much sums it up (taken from your paste):

Guerin did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return for a winger who had been demoted to the fourth line and had been the subject of trade speculation dating to last season.

I agree that he "did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return" for Zucker. We got:

A. an underachieving guy that, if he sticks, won't be significant (he won't stick).
B. a much worse player than the proven 46
C. a first round pick (this is the best of the deal)

So, all in all, a salary dump and first rounder to make way for the Russian. Don't get me wrong. It was worth it but lets not roll out the parade carpet for this. Zucker was done in Minny and this was the 'haul' Billy could get.

You took an obvious typo and IMO a ridiculous take on the trade. Their #1 prospect and their FRP is indeed a haul.

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"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1253

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:04:41 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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Agree that getting rid of Zucker is a win in the big picture but lets not exaggerate what we got in return. It was a good as he could but this is blah. We got cap space and a pick. Nothing more, nothing less.

Post #: 1254

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:04:55 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Yeap. This pretty much sums it up (taken from your paste):

Guerin did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return for a winger who had been demoted to the fourth line and had been the subject of trade speculation dating to last season.

I agree that he "did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return" for Zucker. We got:

A. an underachieving guy that, if he sticks, won't be significant (he won't stick).
B. a much worse player than the proven 46
C. a first round pick (this is the best of the deal)

So, all in all, a salary dump and first rounder to make way for the Russian. Don't get me wrong. It was worth it but lets not roll out the parade carpet for this. Zucker was done in Minny and this was the 'haul' Billy could get.

I don't agree with your assessment of Addison. I don't expect to him to be Spurgeon, but I expect a hell of an upgrade from Dumbo / Brodin caliber defensemen. But yeah, the other component is strictly a salary dump and a 1st rounder.

I don't know how the NHL treats re-trading a player you just got, so I wonder if Guerin can pair Galchenyuk's expiring contract as a way to dump someone like Rask. Otherwise Galchenyuk and Mikko clear $10.4 million under the cap at the end of the season.

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Post #: 1255

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:06:15 AM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

Post #: 1256

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:07:42 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
Agree that getting rid of Zucker is a win in the big picture but lets not exaggerate what we got in return. It was a good as he could but this is blah. We got cap space and a pick. Nothing more, nothing less.

To get cap space and a #1 for someone that has worn out his welcome....sign me up. I would rather have mayhew or Sturm (both outplayed Zucker when he was hurt a few games) up than Zucker around. We can fill his production easily.

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1257

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:08:05 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

And a pretty decent looking defenseman prospect. I'm not predicting Bobby Orr here, but I am also not going to write off someone who could potentially be in our top 4 defensemen for a few years.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1258

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:08:23 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Yeap. This pretty much sums it up (taken from your paste):

Guerin did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return for a winger who had been demoted to the fourth line and had been the subject of trade speculation dating to last season.

I agree that he "did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return" for Zucker. We got:

A. an underachieving guy that, if he sticks, won't be significant (he won't stick).
B. a much worse player than the proven 46
C. a first round pick (this is the best of the deal)

So, all in all, a salary dump and first rounder to make way for the Russian. Don't get me wrong. It was worth it but lets not roll out the parade carpet for this. Zucker was done in Minny and this was the 'haul' Billy could get.

I don't agree with your assessment of Addison. I don't expect to him to be Spurgeon, but I expect a hell of an upgrade from Dumbo / Brodin caliber defensemen. But yeah, the other component is strictly a salary dump and a 1st rounder.

I don't know how the NHL treats re-trading a player you just got, so I wonder if Guerin can pair Galchenyuk's expiring contract as a way to dump someone like Rask. Otherwise Galchenyuk and Mikko clear $10.4 million under the cap at the end of the season.

To me it seems that Addison is the best asset of the trade. A 2nd round pick who has already shown great promise is IMO better than an unknown mid to late FRP.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1259

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:09:35 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

You keep missing the part about Addison being the Penguins #1 prospect. Seems more valuable than the pick to me.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1260

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:09:41 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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JMO guys but he was drafted #53 overall. Not overly excited. Not even 6 foot. You say you expect a hell of an upgrade over Dumba/Brodin but each one of them was a better prospect at that age.

Post #: 1261

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:10:21 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

You keep missing the part about Addison being the Penguins #1 prospect. Seems more valuable than the pick to me.

I'm not missing anything. You are over inflating to try and make a point.

Post #: 1262

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:11:16 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Yeap. This pretty much sums it up (taken from your paste):

Guerin did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return for a winger who had been demoted to the fourth line and had been the subject of trade speculation dating to last season.

I agree that he "did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return" for Zucker. We got:

A. an underachieving guy that, if he sticks, won't be significant (he won't stick).
B. a much worse player than the proven 46
C. a first round pick (this is the best of the deal)

So, all in all, a salary dump and first rounder to make way for the Russian. Don't get me wrong. It was worth it but lets not roll out the parade carpet for this. Zucker was done in Minny and this was the 'haul' Billy could get.

I don't agree with your assessment of Addison. I don't expect to him to be Spurgeon, but I expect a hell of an upgrade from Dumbo / Brodin caliber defensemen. But yeah, the other component is strictly a salary dump and a 1st rounder.

I don't know how the NHL treats re-trading a player you just got, so I wonder if Guerin can pair Galchenyuk's expiring contract as a way to dump someone like Rask. Otherwise Galchenyuk and Mikko clear $10.4 million under the cap at the end of the season.

To me it seems that Addison is the best asset of the trade. A 2nd round pick who has already shown great promise is IMO better than an unknown mid to late FRP.

I wouldn't go that far on Addison yet. He is still in juniors. The game changes drastically just going from juniors to the AHL. We have guys toiling in Iowa who were 50 goal scorers in juniors.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1263

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:12:56 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

You keep missing the part about Addison being the Penguins #1 prospect. Seems more valuable than the pick to me.

I'm not missing anything. You are over inflating to try and make a point.

When you completely disregard his value in the trade I think you are missing something. SRP this year that is looking very good is most likely more valuable than the upcoming FRP. Maybe it's a coin flip which asset is more valuable, but the prospect should not be ignored.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1264

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:14:29 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Yeap. This pretty much sums it up (taken from your paste):

Guerin did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return for a winger who had been demoted to the fourth line and had been the subject of trade speculation dating to last season.

I agree that he "did not an outstanding job of getting a significant return" for Zucker. We got:

A. an underachieving guy that, if he sticks, won't be significant (he won't stick).
B. a much worse player than the proven 46
C. a first round pick (this is the best of the deal)

So, all in all, a salary dump and first rounder to make way for the Russian. Don't get me wrong. It was worth it but lets not roll out the parade carpet for this. Zucker was done in Minny and this was the 'haul' Billy could get.

I don't agree with your assessment of Addison. I don't expect to him to be Spurgeon, but I expect a hell of an upgrade from Dumbo / Brodin caliber defensemen. But yeah, the other component is strictly a salary dump and a 1st rounder.

I don't know how the NHL treats re-trading a player you just got, so I wonder if Guerin can pair Galchenyuk's expiring contract as a way to dump someone like Rask. Otherwise Galchenyuk and Mikko clear $10.4 million under the cap at the end of the season.

To me it seems that Addison is the best asset of the trade. A 2nd round pick who has already shown great promise is IMO better than an unknown mid to late FRP.

I wouldn't go that far on Addison yet. He is still in juniors. The game changes drastically just going from juniors to the AHL. We have guys toiling in Iowa who were 50 goal scorers in juniors.

Maybe I'm going too far. Maybe not. I think it's debatable which asset is more valuable.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 2/11/2020 10:22:24 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1265

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:15:20 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

JMO guys but he was drafted #53 overall. Not overly excited. Not even 6 foot. You say you expect a hell of an upgrade over Dumba/Brodin but each one of them was a better prospect at that age.

In Dumba's case, that's because sheer stupidity is never factored in prospect eveluations. In Brodin, the Wild made the classic mistake of looking at the skating and puck moving ability of a Swedish defenseman and assuming that there is an untapped offensive game to be found.

Look, I am not predicting stardom here. I'm just saying the kid has roughly the same odds as a yet unknown prospect who will be taken with a late first round pick.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1266

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:17:36 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

You keep missing the part about Addison being the Penguins #1 prospect. Seems more valuable than the pick to me.

I'm not missing anything. You are over inflating to try and make a point.

When you completely disregard his value in the trade I think you are missing something. SRP this year that is looking very good is most likely more valuable than the upcoming FRP. Maybe it's a coin flip which asset is more valuable, but the prospect should not be ignored.

His draft status means jack shit to me. He is small and was a -18 in +/- last year IN THE MINORS. What, other than what Zugland wrote makes you even think this was a win? To be fair, it could be. I just think you are overreacting. Look at the numbers and let time tell.

Post #: 1267

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:18:43 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

JMO guys but he was drafted #53 overall. Not overly excited. Not even 6 foot. You say you expect a hell of an upgrade over Dumba/Brodin but each one of them was a better prospect at that age.

In Dumba's case, that's because sheer stupidity is never factored in prospect eveluations. In Brodin, the Wild made the classic mistake of looking at the skating and puck moving ability of a Swedish defenseman and assuming that there is an untapped offensive game to be found.

Look, I am not predicting stardom here. I'm just saying the kid has roughly the same odds as a yet unknown prospect who will be taken with a late first round pick.

Take out "Swedish" in that whole post and you are talking about our new guy. And, for the record, I agree 100%.

Post #: 1268

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:19:17 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

What I've been saying. Salary dump and a pick.

You keep missing the part about Addison being the Penguins #1 prospect. Seems more valuable than the pick to me.

I'm not missing anything. You are over inflating to try and make a point.

When you completely disregard his value in the trade I think you are missing something. SRP this year that is looking very good is most likely more valuable than the upcoming FRP. Maybe it's a coin flip which asset is more valuable, but the prospect should not be ignored.

His draft status means jack shit to me. He is small and was a -18 in +/- last year IN THE MINORS. What, other than what Zugland wrote makes you even think this was a win? To be fair, it could be. I just think you are overreacting. Look at the numbers and let time tell.

I'm taking the report that he is the Penguins #1 prospect at face value. If that is not true it changes things.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1269

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:23:22 AM

kgdabom

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Sweens, Jeff, and whoever wants to chime in. Perhaps you can help me figure it out. Who is currently the Wild's best prospect? I would guess this Kaprizov guy. Is he more valuable than the Penguins upcoming #1 draft pick? Take him out of the equation though because he is a unique case. Who is our 2nd best prospect. How would he compare in value to the Penguins upcoming 1st round pick?

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 2/11/2020 10:24:31 AM >

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"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1270

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:33:50 AM

TJSweens

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Let's be clear about something. Despite what Zulgad says, Addison was not the Penguins top prospect. That would be LW, Samuel Poulin. Pierre-Olivier Joseph was rated higher among defensemen.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1271

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:37:05 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Let's be clear about something. Despite what Zulgad says, Addison was not the Penguins top prospect. That would be LW, Samuel Poulin. Pierre-Olivier Joseph was rated higher among defensemen.

Then that does change things a bit. So Zulgud was unaware of this, embellishing, or is there room for an honest disagreement about this?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1272

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:41:50 AM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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I see the #1 prospect claim for Addison actually came from Scott Wheeler. Zulgud was just quoting him. Is Scott Wheeler a reputable source?

Scott Wheeler of The Athletic ranked Addison as the Penguins’ top prospect before the trade.

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"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1273

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:42:05 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Let's be clear about something. Despite what Zulgad says, Addison was not the Penguins top prospect. That would be LW, Samuel Poulin. Pierre-Olivier Joseph was rated higher among defensemen.

Then that does change things a bit. So Zulgud was unaware of this, embellishing, or is there room for an honest disagreement about this?

Remember who the 1st and 2nd rated Sports Radio Program is in the area.....SkorNorth probably doesn't love the Zuckerisms, Carly Zucker, Jason Zucker, we love the Zucker crap.

Zucker was demoted to the 4th line. To get from under his contract is huge, not to mention a #1, salary relief, and free up a spot for the Russian kid. The prospect and Galyenchuck are a bonus to this deal.

Hell Sturm and Mayhew (Sam Anas prob deserves a little cup of coffee too) are just as good as Zucker.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 2/11/2020 10:49:40 AM >

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SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1274

RE: Wild 2019/2020 Season - 2/11/2020 10:44:05 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

SD

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1275

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