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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 3:43:42 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17850
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Didn't hear Eflain's name much which is a good thing. He certainly needs to be more consistent but he has had a decent game or two this year.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3501

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 3:46:28 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17850
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The key that not many talk about is even on a poor day in KC and Cook being less effective, Thielen out, and Diggs literally shut down....We lost on a FG in regulation. Kirk on a bad day still gives us a shot.

Our worse game was were we lost by 10 at Chicago......We are in every game. I don't know if you remember the days when we didn't have a qb that could keep us in a game......No Thielen, Cook ineffective, and Diggs shutout but that is on Kirk when he is the one that kept us in the game?

Many of you better be careful what you wish for in regards to Spielman, Zimmer, and Cousins. I don't think you remember being blown out against good teams instead of losing on a coin flip.

Possibly adding that GIF of Freeman throwing the ball in to outer space would be fitting here.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3502

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 4:35:26 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The key that not many talk about is even on a poor day in KC and Cook being less effective, Thielen out, and Diggs literally shut down....We lost on a FG in regulation. Kirk on a bad day still gives us a shot.

Our worse game was were we lost by 10 at Chicago......We are in every game. I don't know if you remember the days when we didn't have a qb that could keep us in a game......No Thielen, Cook ineffective, and Diggs shutout but that is on Kirk when he is the one that kept us in the game?

Many of you better be careful what you wish for in regards to Spielman, Zimmer, and Cousins. I don't think you remember being blown out against good teams instead of losing on a coin flip.

You can't absolve Cousins last week. He flat out missed a lot of open throws. He gets way too much blame when we lose, but he was just plain not good last week.

Yeah he was as inaccurate as I’ve seen in the first half for sure, however he is evolving these last couple months by not throwing INT’s at the worst of times, or giving up another sack fumble after fumble (Knock on wood)

Cousins led us on the long TD drive in the 4th quarter to put us ahead again. He did enough to win the game while playing poorly yet not killing us on the road in a very Ponderesque way like earlier in Chicago and GB, and last year.

We need him to at least be efficient if he’s not on fire.

Post #: 3503

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 4:43:28 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76840
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The key that not many talk about is even on a poor day in KC and Cook being less effective, Thielen out, and Diggs literally shut down....We lost on a FG in regulation. Kirk on a bad day still gives us a shot.

Our worse game was were we lost by 10 at Chicago......We are in every game. I don't know if you remember the days when we didn't have a qb that could keep us in a game......No Thielen, Cook ineffective, and Diggs shutout but that is on Kirk when he is the one that kept us in the game?

Many of you better be careful what you wish for in regards to Spielman, Zimmer, and Cousins. I don't think you remember being blown out against good teams instead of losing on a coin flip.

You can't absolve Cousins last week. He flat out missed a lot of open throws. He gets way too much blame when we lose, but he was just plain not good last week.

Yeah he was as inaccurate as I’ve seen in the first half for sure, however he is evolving these last couple months by not throwing INT’s at the worst of times, or giving up another sack fumble after fumble (Knock on wood)

Cousins led us on the long TD drive in the 4th quarter to put us ahead again. He did enough to win the game while playing poorly yet not killing us on the road in a very Ponderesque way like earlier in Chicago and GB, and last year.

We need him to at least be efficient if he’s not on fire.

Yup. No INTs or fumbles (lost or otherwise) the past 4 games:

Game 01: 0 INT, 2 FMB
Game 02: 2 INT, 2 FMB
Game 03: 0 INT, 0 FMB
Game 04: 0 INT, 2 FMB
Game 05: 0 INT, 1 FMB
Game 06: 1 INT, 0 FMB
Game 07: 0 INT, 0 FMB
Game 08: 0 INT, 0 FMB
Game 09: 0 INT, 0 FMB
Game 10: 0 INT, 0 FMB

Post #: 3504

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 4:52:05 PM

drviking

Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

And his last INT hit Diggs in the facemask

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"Only one thing left to do..."

Post #: 3505

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:24:01 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Post #: 3506

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:30:02 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76840
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Mattison looked great, but his usage was pretty limited. How high of a score can you give to 8 carries for 52 yards, 1 reception for 2 yards, and only playing 14 snaps?

Post #: 3507

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:44:26 PM

Viking Rich

Posts: 3730
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

Vikings swept the NFC East this year.

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Sam Darnold's Gonna Shock Us All

Post #: 3508

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:44:26 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Mattison looked great, but his usage was pretty limited. How high of a score can you give to 8 carries for 52 yards, 1 reception for 2 yards, and only playing 14 snaps?

As someone who watched Mattison in college a lot I thought he would be decent for us even though I thought we could've waited a round more to take him. He looks amazing to me! He's working hard to be a great pro for us. I love our running backs these days. So much more dynamic and updated guys suited for today's game.

Post #: 3509

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:45:32 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking Rich

Vikings swept the NFC East this year.

That's a great thing!

Post #: 3510

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:48:38 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17850
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

I thought Barr had a good game. He was very active.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3511

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:53:34 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

Regarding the Vikings attempting a pitch to Dalvin Cook late in the game:

Why would you EVER pitch the ball outside on a run play on your fifteen yard line? Hand the damn ball off and get your two yards. That reminded me of the infamous Giants/Eagles in 1978 with Joe Pisarcik muffing a hand off with thirty seconds to go and the Eagles out of time outs. Shortly after that, teams started the victory kneel down with under two minutes to go in the game. Personally, I would like the NFL to eliminate the kneel down and require teams to at least try to make positive yardage on a play or the clock automatically stops. In fact, I think the clock should stop if the defense causes the opposing offense negative yards on a play with under two minutes to go. Kneeling down is like deliberately striking out in baseball. It makes no sense. Rather than kneel down, just let the clock run out if the opposing team is out of timeouts. No team has EVER fumbled a kneel down play to my knowledge and they probably never will.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3512

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 5:56:32 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking Rich

Vikings swept the NFC East this year.

There was a time not long ago when that probably never happened. There were a number of seasons when three teams from the NFC East made the playoffs, two teams as wild card plus the division champion. Any of the Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, and Redskins were perennial playoff caliber teams.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3513

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 6:01:07 PM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

The Vikings have to find a way to create turnovers on defense. The secondary rarely intercepts a pass and the "hail mary" INT are more gifts than anything. When was the last time you saw a Vikings player attempt to strip the ball from a RB or from a WR/TE after they made a catch? Doesn't this team practice this or believe in this strategy? Other teams do it all the time. Take two series from Dallas any time during the game and insert a turnover. That eliminates 25-50 yards or more of offense from Dallas side plus it give the Vikings offense a chance to score with possible good field position. I think that the lack of TO is the biggest weakness this defense has. They simply do not create enough game changing plays.

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.

Post #: 3514

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 6:09:34 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

J Johnson had one of the lowest PFF grades? Considering how we shut down the run game, I'm surprised by that. I don't know how often he was in on obvious passing downs.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 3515

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 6:55:06 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28251
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking Rich

Vikings swept the NFC East this year.

There was a time not long ago when that probably never happened. There were a number of seasons when three teams from the NFC East made the playoffs, two teams as wild card plus the division champion. Any of the Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, and Redskins were perennial playoff caliber teams.

I'm sure this is a very romantic idea for you, but it has happened 3 times in the last 30 years+, and 0 times in the last 13. Meantime it's happened twice in the Central, so big whoop.

Post #: 3516

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 7:29:47 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Mattison looked great, but his usage was pretty limited. How high of a score can you give to 8 carries for 52 yards, 1 reception for 2 yards, and only playing 14 snaps?

On the other hand, isn't there tremendous value in getting 9 yards per touch in limited action to facilitate having Dalvin on the field as much as possible but still giving rest? That's a weakness in the metric to me. I've heard my whole life about RBs needing to "get a lather" before they're effective. Usage is a weird metric, I know, but productivity is paramount in my book.

Did Anthony Barr really produce more?

Post #: 3517

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 7:32:28 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

I thought Barr had a good game. He was very active.

I liked his activity level, too, but he must have been assignment perfect to score that high but show up so little. It's really a comparison to Mattison, which admittedly might be apples to oranges, but I'm not claiming an all-encompassing index of performance like PFF is.

Post #: 3518

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 7:32:38 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76840
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Mattison looked great, but his usage was pretty limited. How high of a score can you give to 8 carries for 52 yards, 1 reception for 2 yards, and only playing 14 snaps?

On the other hand, isn't there tremendous value in getting 9 yards per touch in limited action to facilitate having Dalvin on the field as much as possible but still giving rest? That's a weakness in the metric to me. I've heard my whole life about RBs needing to "get a lather" before they're effective. Usage is a weird metric, I know, but productivity is paramount in my book.

Did Anthony Barr really produce more?

Technically 6 yards per touch...but its a valid point.

Post #: 3519

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 7:33:42 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Mattison looked great, but his usage was pretty limited. How high of a score can you give to 8 carries for 52 yards, 1 reception for 2 yards, and only playing 14 snaps?

On the other hand, isn't there tremendous value in getting 9 yards per touch in limited action to facilitate having Dalvin on the field as much as possible but still giving rest? That's a weakness in the metric to me. I've heard my whole life about RBs needing to "get a lather" before they're effective. Usage is a weird metric, I know, but productivity is paramount in my book.

Did Anthony Barr really produce more?

Technically 6 yards per touch...but its a valid point.

Sorry, I was standing on my head when I posted that.

Post #: 3520

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 8:26:53 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

I thought Barr had a good game. He was very active.

He was in on seven tackles- only one was an assist. That represents his best total for the season.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 3521

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/11/2019 8:50:22 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

This may be too long for most of you, but you could listen to it while you read the other posts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiemDQhWvnE&fbclid=IwAR2RgClQBHxYnLjR-9cJ-ikym2IZakyupbDA7921xCWCDaVanQUsiSOdVmo

One of the points was that Zeke did not convert any first downs. Prescott did convert a lot through the air, though.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 11/11/2019 8:54:00 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 3522

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/12/2019 7:22:06 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26412
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Top #Vikings grades from MIN@DAL (minimum 15 snaps):

Offense
Rudolph: 86.8
Cook: 76.0
Cousins: 72.6
Diggs: 72.3
Elflein: 67.7
Bradbury: 67.2 (zero pressures allowed)

Defense:
Griffen: 78.9 (7 pressures, 4 stops)
Hunter: 74.0 (10 pressures)
Harris: 72.0
Barr: 70.9
Odenigbo: 69.5

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Don't love PFF, don't hate PFF, but definitely don't trust PFF. Very hard to figure out how Mattison wasn't north of 70; equally hard to see how Barr was.

Mattison looked great, but his usage was pretty limited. How high of a score can you give to 8 carries for 52 yards, 1 reception for 2 yards, and only playing 14 snaps?

On the other hand, isn't there tremendous value in getting 9 yards per touch in limited action to facilitate having Dalvin on the field as much as possible but still giving rest? That's a weakness in the metric to me. I've heard my whole life about RBs needing to "get a lather" before they're effective. Usage is a weird metric, I know, but productivity is paramount in my book.

Did Anthony Barr really produce more?

Yes....how did the Dallas TEs and RBs look all game? Barr was roaming the middle with Kendricks and played almost every down.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/12/2019 7:37:35 AM >

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3523

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/12/2019 7:57:56 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17850
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

J Johnson had one of the lowest PFF grades? Considering how we shut down the run game, I'm surprised by that. I don't know how often he was in on obvious passing downs.

Jaleel played 43 snaps 60%

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3524

RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/12/2019 9:14:14 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1308
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

J Johnson had one of the lowest PFF grades? Considering how we shut down the run game, I'm surprised by that. I don't know how often he was in on obvious passing downs.

Jaleel played 43 snaps 60%

Armon Watts PFF grade of 77.3 on 7 snaps.

Post #: 3525