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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 7:31:37 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

I know what you mean Todd. For me, it's more like apathy has set in. I don't know if I will watch another NFL game this season and that doesn't bother me one bit.

Mediocrity has set in. We have an overpayed aging defense, an offensive line that didn't improve as the season went on, a head coach that doesn't understand the importance of good offense, and a late first rounder. This was probably our shot to do something. I'm not excited for next season.

Post #: 5751

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:10:34 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

No Shurmur. Going to Denver

Ouch. Was really hoping we could get him back.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5752

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:18:41 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Draft order finalized. I thought it might have been #26, so we lucked there.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/1/12/21063220/nfl-draft-order-vikings-spot-finalized

First order of business is trading down to collect some more 4th rounders......

And use those picks for kickers and punters.

Post #: 5753

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:25:28 AM

twinsfan

Posts: 63630
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline

I noticed the Packers got a few cookies yesterday.

1) Hail Mary by Seattle at the end of the first half - Incomplete with 1 second left. That second magically disappears. Half over.

2) Late in the game, Green Bay running back is clearly stopped short of the goal line upon replay. Not overturned. TD Packers.

3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over.

There were more, but my short-term memory is not the best.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me

Post #: 5754

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:28:51 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I noticed the Packers got a few cookies yesterday.

1) Hail Mary by Seattle at the end of the first half - Incomplete with 1 second left. That second magically disappears. Half over.

2) Late in the game, Green Bay running back is clearly stopped short of the goal line upon replay. Not overturned. TD Packers.

3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over.

There were more, but my short-term memory is not the best.

Noticed all those as well. Also seen a lot of head slapping and holding no calls by their oline.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5755

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:31:13 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

I noticed the Packers we’re willing to pass late in the game to keep possession.

Playing to win.

Post #: 5756

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:31:53 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over.

Was Graham and his face landed on the yellow line with the ball in his stomach area. That was clearly short yet NY did not overturn.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5757

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:33:48 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I noticed the Packers we’re willing to pass late in the game to keep possession.

Playing to win.

True. sea was stuffing the run so rather than 2 running plays and punt (Zimmer ball) they threw and kept the chains moving with some help from the zebras.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5758

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:37:03 AM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters:

Waynes
Griffin
Rudolph
Rhodes
Reiff

It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 5759

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:41:04 AM

twinsfan

Posts: 63630
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I noticed the Packers we’re willing to pass late in the game to keep possession.

Playing to win.

Yes, me too. But they were gifted a 1st down on a pass that was short of the marker.

_____________________________

“We are an unserious nation that's in serious $hit.”

-Me

Post #: 5760

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 8:44:55 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I noticed the Packers got a few cookies yesterday.

1) Hail Mary by Seattle at the end of the first half - Incomplete with 1 second left. That second magically disappears. Half over.

2) Late in the game, Green Bay running back is clearly stopped short of the goal line upon replay. Not overturned. TD Packers.

3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over.

There were more, but my short-term memory is not the best.

I noticed a few late hits and chippiness allowed by the GB defense also.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 5761

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 9:20:31 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters:

Waynes
Griffin
Rudolph
Rhodes
Reiff

It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one.

My understanding is that you'll only get compensatory picks for your free agents if they leave.

Griffin, Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff aren't free agents. If you cut them you won't get compensation. Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff have considerable dead cap #'s for next year so cutting them isn't a slam dunk.

Waynes, Mackenzie, Harris are 3 FA's whom could garner picks if we don't resign. I'd like to try and keep Mack and Harris if enough adjustments can be made.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 5762

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 9:23:26 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39282
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

First things first this offseason.

We need an OC that will actually adapt to what the other team is doing to them defensively. If they are selling out to stop the run. Pass the **** out of them, If they commit to stopping the pass...Run it up the gut 53 times until they stop you. Same on defense. It's time for Zimmer to relinquish play calling, he can still have input like good times to blitz etc. In any case they need to adapt. When they are running it up the gut play after play after play and getting 4,7,10 yards, IT"S TIME TO BRING SOMEBODY UP INTO THE BOX.

My biggest problem with the current coaching staff has been and will continue to be the slow or nonexistant way they adapt to what the other team is doing.

For the love of Christ get some coordinators that can adapt quickly on the fly.

NEXT. Spend the offseason purging the overpriced deadweights like Rhodes. Restructure some contracts to give us some salary cap room and get some REAL NFL OGs.

Draft. One of the picks had better be a QBOTF.

Find a way to keep Anthony Harris. That dude is a gamer.

Trade Diggs, If he's going to be a crying little bitch, trade him and use the picks for his replacement.

< Message edited by Trekgeekscott -- 1/13/2020 9:24:33 AM >

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 5763

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 9:52:33 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over.

Was Graham and his face landed on the yellow line with the ball in his stomach area. That was clearly short yet NY did not overturn.

Center holding on that play also.

Post #: 5764

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 9:54:18 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

Get an Offensive line!

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 5765

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:02:28 AM

kevinemmer

Posts: 4659
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Get an Offensive line!

Agreed

One of the problems with this staff is, they won't replace an under-performer (ELF!) during the season
with "promising" guys on the roster (Udoh, Samia).

We may have fixes on roster, but we can't be sure with this coaching staff.

Rhodes should have been on the pine long ago, replaced by Hill, Kearse, heck even Boyd.

But no.

Post #: 5766

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:04:22 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Get an Offensive line!

It really is that simple. All the other pieces of the team range from elite to below average. The below average and average pieces can be worked with but a poor Oline will and did sink this team. For reference - my opinion on the pieces of the team are:

D ends - Elite
Interior line - average
LB - above average (Kendricks is elite, Barr is below average, Wilson is average)
CBs - below average (this is a great mystery to me - can they really all be bad? Is it a poor scheme? Maybe they are all bad?)
Safeties - Elite
QB - Excellent
TEs - Average
WRs - Excellent to elite
RBs - Excellent to elite
Special teams - Above average

In any given offseason over the last four to five years I've seen posters suggest drafting OL in the first three picks and I think a lot of the time the poster was dead serious. The team responded by sometimes picking one OL in the first few rounds. In reality - it should have been OL in two of the first three picks for many drafts in a row.

Can the team find the wisdom to do this now and going forward? Is it too late?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5767

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:05:37 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Get an Offensive line!

Agreed

One of the problems with this staff is, they won't replace an under-performer (ELF!) during the season
with "promising" guys on the roster (Udoh, Samia).

We may have fixes on roster, but we can't be sure with this coaching staff.

Rhodes should have been on the pine long ago, replaced by Hill, Kearse, heck even Boyd.

But no.

Zimmer doesn't allow competition for starting spots. It's his biggest flaw in his coaching.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5768

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:05:43 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

Zimmer talked to Parcells about how to get over the hump......

Also said we have OL guys who have basically redshirted, but overall hopes that the OL "becomes even more of a strength."

Wants OC with same system, same playcalls, same motions, same schemes.....

Internal hire---book it.

Post #: 5769

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:09:42 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

I know what you mean Todd. For me, it's more like apathy has set in. I don't know if I will watch another NFL game this season and that doesn't bother me one bit.

Mediocrity has set in. We have an overpayed aging defense, an offensive line that didn't improve as the season went on, a head coach that doesn't understand the importance of good offense, and a late first rounder. This was probably our shot to do something. I'm not excited for next season.

I'm excited. The moves will all but make themselves. There is no gray area.

1) No more hoping that Elflein gets it. He needs to be replaced. You don't give up on an athlete like Bradbury

2) Udoh and O'Neill bring athleticism to the Tackle spot that we haven't had in awhile.

3) The way our DTs got run over all but paves the way for drafting someone to help Stephen, Watts and Holmes. Linval gone.

4) Harris will be retained.

5) CB needs to be addressed. Rhodes gone.

6) Speed WR should be a priority. We don't need some polished route runner. Just a guy who can keep the defense honest.

7) This is tricky but we need to not hire Yes Men for the Coordinator spots.

8) No need to draft LB and RB

Post #: 5770

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:14:01 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Zimmer talked to Parcells about how to get over the hump......

Also said we have OL guys who have basically redshirted, but overall hopes that the OL "becomes even more of a strength."

Wants OC with same system, same playcalls, same motions, same schemes.....

Internal hire---book it.

So Zimmer still wants to play Parcells ball 25 years too late. Exciting!

Post #: 5771

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:22:30 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters:

Waynes
Griffin
Rudolph
Rhodes
Reiff

It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one.

My understanding is that you'll only get compensatory picks for your free agents if they leave.

Griffin, Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff aren't free agents. If you cut them you won't get compensation. Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff have considerable dead cap #'s for next year so cutting them isn't a slam dunk.

Waynes, Mackenzie, Harris are 3 FA's whom could garner picks if we don't resign. I'd like to try and keep Mack and Harris if enough adjustments can be made.

I think Rhodes, Reiff and Joseph cap numbers for next year are significantly bigger than the dead cap #s we would have to take. No brainer cuts.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 1/13/2020 10:24:19 AM >

Post #: 5772

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:24:01 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

End of season PFF rankings for our CBs:

Macenzie Alexander: 67
Trae Waynes: 73
Holton Hill: 85
Mike Hughs: 129
Boyd: 169
Rhodes: 187

There are a total of 214 CBs ranked.

Can they all really be that bad? We don't even have one guy in the top 64? This is strange.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5773

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:27:23 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Zimmer talked to Parcells about how to get over the hump......

Also said we have OL guys who have basically redshirted, but overall hopes that the OL "becomes even more of a strength."

Wants OC with same system, same playcalls, same motions, same schemes.....

Internal hire---book it.

So Zimmer still wants to play Parcells ball 25 years too late. Exciting!

What kind of ball is Tennessee playing? And what kind of ball did SF bury us with?

Post #: 5774

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2020 10:30:28 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters:

Waynes
Griffin
Rudolph
Rhodes
Reiff

It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one.

My understanding is that you'll only get compensatory picks for your free agents if they leave.

Griffin, Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff aren't free agents. If you cut them you won't get compensation. Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff have considerable dead cap #'s for next year so cutting them isn't a slam dunk.

Waynes, Mackenzie, Harris are 3 FA's whom could garner picks if we don't resign. I'd like to try and keep Mack and Harris if enough adjustments can be made.

I think Rhodes, Reiff and Joseph cap numbers for next year are significantly bigger than the dead cap #s we would have to take. No brainer cuts.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/cap/

To determine the cap savings for a cut player you take the cap hit and subtract the dead money. Notable cap savings:

Linval: $10.5 million
Griffen: $13.1 million
Rhodes: $8.1 million
Reiff: $8.8 million

I'd love to keep Griffen by extending him for three seasons and making his cap hit this year more in the $5-6 million range.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5775