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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 5:15:50 PM   
Viking Rich

 

Posts: 3730
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Kirk is our QB. Sloter isn't coming back, Mannion is lacking, and Browning is a long shot. Our only hope is that Kirk is somehow chastened by this game; I'm supportive and hopeful, but now skeptical. If he could do better, wouldn't he have by now????

Exactly right. I think what we've seen is what he is. There isn't going to be a great change. Our only hope is the D plays lights out and the running game keeps shining on unfortunately. We are going to have to play boring ball and hope it's enough because Kirk doesn't have the it factor at all. He's just happy to be there.


Unfortunately, we are forever trapped in being good enough to miss out on franchise qb draft position... and can't seem to unearth a gem... and some of us would argue that we just ran a potential gem out of town... no joy in mudville

Well if we miss the playoffs then Zimmer and Spielman will probably be gone. We have a ton of talent and that would be inexcusable. The one good thing that would come out of that is maybe we wouldn't continue to throw out promising "prospects" going forward. I just don't for the life of me understand why he isn't at least the backup. Mannion is a nobody and always will be.


Zimmer

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Post #: 601
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 5:57:35 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking Rich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Kirk is our QB. Sloter isn't coming back, Mannion is lacking, and Browning is a long shot. Our only hope is that Kirk is somehow chastened by this game; I'm supportive and hopeful, but now skeptical. If he could do better, wouldn't he have by now????

Exactly right. I think what we've seen is what he is. There isn't going to be a great change. Our only hope is the D plays lights out and the running game keeps shining on unfortunately. We are going to have to play boring ball and hope it's enough because Kirk doesn't have the it factor at all. He's just happy to be there.


Unfortunately, we are forever trapped in being good enough to miss out on franchise qb draft position... and can't seem to unearth a gem... and some of us would argue that we just ran a potential gem out of town... no joy in mudville

Well if we miss the playoffs then Zimmer and Spielman will probably be gone. We have a ton of talent and that would be inexcusable. The one good thing that would come out of that is maybe we wouldn't continue to throw out promising "prospects" going forward. I just don't for the life of me understand why he isn't at least the backup. Mannion is a nobody and always will be.


Zimmer

Like was well said on the game day thread...

Zimmer cannot coexist with a type A attitude gunslinger mentality game changer QB...

He is a control freak and it just will not allow him to coach up this style player or allow one to develop in our system...

Case, Sloter, hell he would have had Favre removed from the building after a couple practices and a preseason game...


ZIMMER...
Post #: 602
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 6:08:39 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19069
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		I wouldn't say KC (and this isn't an apologist post by any means) was the reason we lost. He was a reason.

1. Zimmer, once again, didn't have them ready out of the gate. We were down 21-0 nothing for cripes sake
2. ST's were, once again…..a disaster
3. KC's had a terrible game


The whole team essentially sucked today. Or, at least, all 3 phases sucked at some point today.
Post #: 603
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 6:19:18 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

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Joined: 12/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I wouldn't say KC (and this isn't an apologist post by any means) was the reason we lost. He was a reason.

1. Zimmer, once again, didn't have them ready out of the gate. We were down 21-0 nothing for cripes sake
2. ST's were, once again…..a disaster
3. KC's had a terrible game


The whole team essentially sucked today. Or, at least, all 3 phases sucked at some point today.


While the D and special teams sucked at different points during the game, Cousins sucked the entire game. The Vikings held the Packers to 21 points. Even a slightly mediocre day by Cousins and the team wins. Keenum or Teddy B definitely win that game for us. Cousins is just not a good quarterback.

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Post #: 604
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 6:43:51 PM   
geoffrey greitzer

 

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Teddy did nothing today.
Cousins is Michael Scott (office)
Great point about Zimmer and type A qb's
He is clueless...u need a leader!!
Cousins will never be that guy
Post #: 605
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 6:44:03 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19069
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		Don't disagree. Was trying to point out that Zimmer still sucks at getting this team ready in bigger games and he just can't fix a ST's unit for his life.
Post #: 606
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 6:45:33 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		Anything less than a Super Bowl will be a failure with what we paid to bring Kirk to Minnesota...

In hindsight I believe most all will admit we would have been better off going with Keenum who got us to NFCCG and continue to develop Sloter, Especially with the DeFillippo Hire preceeding KC move...

With what was paid to Kirk Cousins we could have built a stellar OL and DeFillippo system would have thrived with a Keenum / Sloter type QB who did enough to win games along with a stellar D we would be no worse off than now... Potentially being in situation to get Nick Foles or something for this year or st worst seeing what we really had in Sloter... but not with this HC in charge...

Now we are counting the days till we are in cap hell and KC comes off our books and we have a regime change, basically hoping for best but knowing we are in cruise mode to see how far the bottom falls out?


Then again, maybe today was an anomaly and something flips a light switch in Cousins and he plays lights out in a system tailored to be a game manager for the rest of his career in Minnesota...
Post #: 607
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 7:25:59 PM   
Dave Odle


Posts: 8145
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline 		The only thing is if you get rid of Zimmer, you risk the D going way backwards. No way he demotes to defensive coordinator, imo.

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Post #: 608
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 7:40:09 PM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Sad thing is another year of cousins and after that the defense will be getting too old and too expensive.

Likely looking at a total rebuild after next season.
Post #: 609
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 7:53:05 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline 		Turns out that Cousins is who we thought he was, a quarterback only good enough to beat bad teams, which means a mediocre record for the Vikings, at best. Fortunately, next years draft is stacked with qb prospects. We may be stuck with Cousins next year, but whoever our GM is, they have to grab a qb with their first pick in the draft.

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If the Cubs can win the World Series...
Post #: 610
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 7:53:53 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76802
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online 		The salary difference between Cousins and Keenum does NOT buy you a “stellar O-Line”...

Keenum would’ve been making 19M this year.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 9/15/2019 7:56:21 PM >
Post #: 611
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 7:56:51 PM   
Dave Odle


Posts: 8145
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Turns out that Cousins is who we thought he was, a quarterback only good enough to beat bad teams, which means a mediocre record for the Vikings, at best. Fortunately, next years draft is stacked with qb prospects. We may be stuck with Cousins next year, but whoever our GM is, they have to grab a qb with their first pick in the draft.


I agree. As much as it pains me to say, I agree.

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Post #: 612
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:29:58 PM   
Guest
 We have a very special running back, and a damn good rookie backup.

Defense turned it around after a very early reminder of last years poor start.

We appeared to be wearing them down, but couldn’t get out of our own way to close the deal. I’ll not pile on Cousins (Eventhough he deserves it)

Freakin Diggs still being immature to a fault taking off his helmet. (Come on dude)

However I gotta hang my hat on Cook, and Mattison, couple of bad asses.
  Post #: 613
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:33:37 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 44310
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

The salary difference between Cousins and Keenum does NOT buy you a “stellar O-Line”...

Keenum would’ve been making 19M this year.

It certainly doesn't. Unfortunately until after next season, Cousins' contract is going to be blamed for any short coming on the roster. When we signed him, it was going to cost us two of Barr, Kendricks, Diggs. We kept everybody we were supposed to lose and added Sheldon Richardson. Now we would all pros from tackle to tackle. Any position where we are thin is going to be blamed on Cousins' salary.

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Post #: 614
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:37:36 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2210
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

The salary difference between Cousins and Keenum does NOT buy you a “stellar O-Line”...

Keenum would’ve been making 19M this year.

It certainly doesn't. Unfortunately until after next season, Cousins' contract is going to be blamed for any short coming on the roster. When we signed him, it was going to cost us two of Barr, Kendricks, Diggs. We kept everybody we were supposed to lose and added Sheldon Richardson. Now we would all pros from tackle to tackle. Any position where we are thin is going to be blamed on Cousins' salary.


It was a two year gamble... like most sports bets on MN franchises it doesn't look like it's going to pay out.

But for all the gnashing of teeth...

Case wasn't getting us a ring
Teddy wasn't getting us a ring
Bradford wasn't getting us a ring
There wasn't a "for sure" path we missed.
Post #: 615
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:40:11 PM   
TJSweens


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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

The salary difference between Cousins and Keenum does NOT buy you a “stellar O-Line”...

Keenum would’ve been making 19M this year.

It certainly doesn't. Unfortunately until after next season, Cousins' contract is going to be blamed for any short coming on the roster. When we signed him, it was going to cost us two of Barr, Kendricks, Diggs. We kept everybody we were supposed to lose and added Sheldon Richardson. Now we would all pros from tackle to tackle. Any position where we are thin is going to be blamed on Cousins' salary.

And another thing, can we please stop the ridiculous "Keenum would have thrived here and led us to glory" argument? We caught lightning in a bottle for one year with Keenum. The clock struck midnight and Cinderella turned back into Case Keenum.

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Post #: 616
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:51:50 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline 		The sin, if it is one, goes back to not having a viable backup when Teddy went down or not taking our lumps. Instead, we trade a first and a fourth for Bradford and things unravel from there. He may be the original Cousins, if Kirk remains on his current path. I had no issue abandoning Keenum, but his Houdini act was largely responsible for the 13-3 season. Trouble is, he's not a good thrower.

If we take our lumps in 2016, we're likely in a position to draft Mahomes or Watson in the next draft, or easily trade up to do so. Other than Teddy---still an unknown---Spielman has made two highly questionable decisions on QBs (Bradford and Cousins) and one good one on a backup (Case). The questionable ones my end up wasting a Super Bowl window.
Post #: 617
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:57:12 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2210
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

The sin, if it is one, goes back to not having a viable backup when Teddy went down or not taking our lumps. Instead, we trade a first and a fourth for Bradford and things unravel from there. He may be the original Cousins, if Kirk remains on his current path. I had no issue abandoning Keenum, but his Houdini act was largely responsible for the 13-3 season. Trouble is, he's not a good thrower.

If we take our lumps in 2016, we're likely in a position to draft Mahomes or Watson in the next draft, or easily trade up to do so. Other than Teddy---still an unknown---Spielman has made two highly questionable decisions on QBs (Bradford and Cousins) and one good one on a backup (Case). The questionable ones my end up wasting a Super Bowl window.


Pretty accurate assessment...
Post #: 618
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:57:18 PM   
Dave Odle


Posts: 8145
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Caddo Mills, TX
Status: offline 		Excellent points, guys. I don't think we "missed out" on anyone. We rolled the dice and it's not looking good. I think our QBOTF is in an upcoming draft.

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Post #: 619
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 8:58:27 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

We have a very special running back, and a damn good rookie backup.

Defense turned it around after a very early reminder of last years poor start.

We appeared to be wearing them down, but couldn’t get out of our own way to close the deal. I’ll not pile on Cousins (Eventhough he deserves it)

Freakin Diggs still being immature to a fault taking off his helmet. (Come on dude)

However I gotta hang my hat on Cook, and Mattison, couple of bad asses.


Me too, but we have to hope that Zimmer doesn't over react in that direction with regards to a balanced offense.
Post #: 620
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 9:10:12 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12059
Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

We have a very special running back, and a damn good rookie backup.

Defense turned it around after a very early reminder of last years poor start.

We appeared to be wearing them down, but couldn’t get out of our own way to close the deal. I’ll not pile on Cousins (Eventhough he deserves it)

Freakin Diggs still being immature to a fault taking off his helmet. (Come on dude)

However I gotta hang my hat on Cook, and Mattison, couple of bad asses.

With our Front 6 and an eventual backfield of Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, Hughes, Hill, Smith, Harris, Kearse, this defense should be lights out. We just need Cousins and the OLine to step up.

Frustrating that we aren't all alone on top of the North right now.
Post #: 621
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 9:32:07 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline 		https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/this_stat_shows_just_how_bad_kirk_cousins_has_been/s1_12680_30008363



Since the start of the 2017 season, Cousins boasts the lowest quarterback rating in the NFL when inside the opponents’ 10-yard line. He’s completing less than 45% of his passes and is averaging 1.6 yards per attempt.


Jim Trotter
✔
@JimTrotter_NFL
Pro Football Focus offered this as context for Cousins’ INT on 1st-&-goal from 8: “From the opponents’ 10-yard line and in, Cousins ranks 27th out of 27 qualifying QBs in passer rating (76.5) since 2017, completing 44.6 percent of his passes w/ lowest yards per attempt avg (1.6)

You could literally run the ball with a fullback and come out averaging more than 1.6 yards per attempt.

That’s not just sad, it’s absolutely atrocious.

For a Vikings team that seemingly has the pieces in place to contend for a Super Bowl appearance, it sure looks like Mr. Cousins will continue to hold it back.
Post #: 622
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 9:36:31 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17839
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		I think Rick made a huge mistake at qb (as usual). Keenum and Teddy I respected. Cousins is a piece of crap.

Furthermore, Cousins salary has/will cost us a couple good players salary wise. People will argue this but the numbers simply don't lie.

Even Keenum at 20ml per would have allowed us to ext Harris and Kearse. We still may be able to do so but other cuts will have to be made.

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 623
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 9:46:59 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		Cousins crapped the bed.
Zimmer's D wasn't properly prepped
Officials didn't call a fair game

If we take away even one of those we win the game but unfortunately they all happened. Running game looks great, Oline is 'ok', defense was lights out after they figured out that Devonte Adams is kind of a big deal. I'm just trying to toss out a few positives. Punting game was awesome!

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I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 624
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/15/2019 9:47:24 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 44310
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I think Rick made a huge mistake at qb (as usual). Keenum and Teddy I respected. Cousins is a piece of crap.

Furthermore, Cousins salary has/will cost us a couple good players salary wise. People will argue this but the numbers simply don't lie.

Even Keenum at 20ml per would have allowed us to ext Harris and Kearse. We still may be able to do so but other cuts will have to be made.

Cousins hasn't cost us anyone yet, but that won't stop you from saying he will.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 625
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