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RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 9:15:09 AM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It kind of makes me want the Vikings to draft a quarterback early.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/3/14/21180188/kirk-cousins-turned-down-multiple-extension-offers-minnesota-vikings

Yeah.

I wish some of the "Aw shucks" persona would show itself when it came to his salary. But, he has shown he is about making the most money he can, team be damned.

He took less to sign with the Vikings - had a higher offer from the JETS.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 176

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 9:54:26 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
With Linval Joseph let go, the #Vikings lose one of their tri-captains on defense. They still have holdover captain Anthony Barr and Mike Zimmer expects Everson Griffen to re-sign. But who will step up to be a third captain? Harrison Smith? Eric Kendricks? Danielle Hunter?

As much as I'd like to keep Grif he seems like a luxury we can't afford. 6-9ml or so is a lot of cabbage when your up against the cap.

Well atleast Griff is still effective at a critical position (unlike the average vets we have been hanging onto).

If we lose both him and Joseph we are not only rebuilding our interior run defense but having to add an outside 8+ sack player to go with Odenigbo’s 7 Sacks and help keep Hunter as effective.

Good points.

But Odenigbo + Weatherly + savings from not paying Griffen may be better given the current cap state of the team.

I won't dispute that ... also the long-term DL prospects of the team, if Weatherly improves quite a bit.

But ... I'm a little panicky about giving up DE pressure in general, given the state of the secondary.

I have no idea what this defense is going to look like ... I'm assuming they play this year.

We could turn right around and use Griff's salary on a DT. Maybe DT could be manned as well with current players but I don't know the status or talent level of guys like JJ, Holmes, etc. Holmes seems like a wasted 3rd round pick.

Post #: 177

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 9:57:16 AM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://thevikingage.com/2020/03/13/4-overpaid-minnesota-vikings-players-2020/

I found the order to be a bit out of whack but can't really argue with it.

Barr, Rudolph, Reiff are next years cuts.

They say Diggs is a bargain.... at $15 million per. Hmmm.

Post #: 178

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 10:03:58 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It kind of makes me want the Vikings to draft a quarterback early.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/3/14/21180188/kirk-cousins-turned-down-multiple-extension-offers-minnesota-vikings

Yeah.

I wish some of the "Aw shucks" persona would show itself when it came to his salary. But, he has shown he is about making the most money he can, team be damned.

If no extension by draft day, it adds another reason to draft a QB high:
- No guarantee of him staying (like the article says)
- At least trying to groom a QBOTF
- Opportunity to get a QB who can add another dimension, i.e. mobility.

Post #: 179

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 10:12:28 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://thevikingage.com/2020/03/13/4-overpaid-minnesota-vikings-players-2020/

I found the order to be a bit out of whack but can't really argue with it.

Barr, Rudolph, Reiff are next years cuts.

They say Diggs is a bargain.... at $15 million per. Hmmm.

His contested catch rate is #1 in the NFL I believe. I think he's also #1 (or close to it) in percentage of successful deep balls. I personally believe he has the best footwork for a WR in the game. Just because our coach's outdated philosophy of 'run the ball and stop the run' coupled with an immobile QB with a terrible O-line leaves #14 criminally under-utilized doesn't change his talent and potential.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 180

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 10:12:33 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12164
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
With Linval Joseph let go, the #Vikings lose one of their tri-captains on defense. They still have holdover captain Anthony Barr and Mike Zimmer expects Everson Griffen to re-sign. But who will step up to be a third captain? Harrison Smith? Eric Kendricks? Danielle Hunter?

As much as I'd like to keep Grif he seems like a luxury we can't afford. 6-9ml or so is a lot of cabbage when your up against the cap.

Well atleast Griff is still effective at a critical position (unlike the average vets we have been hanging onto).

If we lose both him and Joseph we are not only rebuilding our interior run defense but having to add an outside 8+ sack player to go with Odenigbo’s 7 Sacks and help keep Hunter as effective.

Good points.

But Odenigbo + Weatherly + savings from not paying Griffen may be better given the current cap state of the team.

I won't dispute that ... also the long-term DL prospects of the team, if Weatherly improves quite a bit.

But ... I'm a little panicky about giving up DE pressure in general, given the state of the secondary.

I have no idea what this defense is going to look like ... I'm assuming they play this year.

We could turn right around and use Griff's salary on a DT. Maybe DT could be manned as well with current players but I don't know the status or talent level of guys like JJ, Holmes, etc. Holmes seems like a wasted 3rd round pick.

I think Watts is a guy they are high on.

Need a NT.

1) Reader: Might be too expensive
2) Hargrave: possible
3) Poe
4) Mebane: cheap option

Post #: 181

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 12:19:28 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
With Linval Joseph let go, the #Vikings lose one of their tri-captains on defense. They still have holdover captain Anthony Barr and Mike Zimmer expects Everson Griffen to re-sign. But who will step up to be a third captain? Harrison Smith? Eric Kendricks? Danielle Hunter?

As much as I'd like to keep Grif he seems like a luxury we can't afford. 6-9ml or so is a lot of cabbage when your up against the cap.

I think so too. I'm not even sure he is our starter anymore if we keep him. I would be inclined to use him as a spot pass rusher. I'm wondering if he would play for less since he got his pay when he had his mental health issues and missed games two seasons ago. Also, I am betting he feels some loyalty to the Purple since he has played for only one team throughout his career. If I was in his shoes I would prefer to finish out my career here. I mean, I'm sure he loves the coaches and the players plus he lives here.

He did that in last years renegotiation.

Post #: 182

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 12:20:39 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
With Linval Joseph let go, the #Vikings lose one of their tri-captains on defense. They still have holdover captain Anthony Barr and Mike Zimmer expects Everson Griffen to re-sign. But who will step up to be a third captain? Harrison Smith? Eric Kendricks? Danielle Hunter?

As much as I'd like to keep Grif he seems like a luxury we can't afford. 6-9ml or so is a lot of cabbage when your up against the cap.

Well atleast Griff is still effective at a critical position (unlike the average vets we have been hanging onto).

If we lose both him and Joseph we are not only rebuilding our interior run defense but having to add an outside 8+ sack player to go with Odenigbo’s 7 Sacks and help keep Hunter as effective.

Good points.

But Odenigbo + Weatherly + savings from not paying Griffen may be better given the current cap state of the team.

I won't dispute that ... also the long-term DL prospects of the team, if Weatherly improves quite a bit.

But ... I'm a little panicky about giving up DE pressure in general, given the state of the secondary.

I have no idea what this defense is going to look like ... I'm assuming they play this year.

Isn't Weatherly DE?

Post #: 183

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 12:23:57 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson@christomasson
With Linval Joseph let go, the #Vikings lose one of their tri-captains on defense. They still have holdover captain Anthony Barr and Mike Zimmer expects Everson Griffen to re-sign. But who will step up to be a third captain? Harrison Smith? Eric Kendricks? Danielle Hunter?

As much as I'd like to keep Grif he seems like a luxury we can't afford. 6-9ml or so is a lot of cabbage when your up against the cap.

Well atleast Griff is still effective at a critical position (unlike the average vets we have been hanging onto).

If we lose both him and Joseph we are not only rebuilding our interior run defense but having to add an outside 8+ sack player to go with Odenigbo’s 7 Sacks and help keep Hunter as effective.

Or does Griffen move into that "average vet" category in 2020.

Post #: 184

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 12:24:11 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://thevikingage.com/2020/03/13/4-overpaid-minnesota-vikings-players-2020/

I found the order to be a bit out of whack but can't really argue with it.

Barr, Rudolph, Reiff are next years cuts.

They say Diggs is a bargain.... at $15 million per. Hmmm.

His contested catch rate is #1 in the NFL I believe. I think he's also #1 (or close to it) in percentage of successful deep balls. I personally believe he has the best footwork for a WR in the game. Just because our coach's outdated philosophy of 'run the ball and stop the run' coupled with an immobile QB with a terrible O-line leaves #14 criminally under-utilized doesn't change his talent and potential.

Good stuff DF, I agree on Diggs. Stud, under contract for most of his prime. Even in a run first offense with terrible pass blocking oline, he can do it all. Contested catches, deep balls, short/intermediate routes.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 185

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 12:29:54 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
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2020 cap up $10M over 2019.

Post #: 186

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 12:31:16 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Ravens trade the 5th rounder we gave them for the kicker we cut and got Calais Campbell.

Post #: 187

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:18:01 PM

Pauldiercks1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If Reiff is still a starter, I have a problem with that. Not sure I can watch another season of him sucking.

When did you find a season of him sucking? I am unaware of such occurrence.

Ok I’m surprised there is support for him. I turned off games because I couldn’t watch him anymore. Didn’t like him since we got him. Just saying if Reiff is our LT we are not going too far with Cousins. Agree LG is worse but both pretty bad. I’m not sure moving O’’Neil solves much. But ok Just my opinion, I respect your knowledge of the game, but my opinion is if we don’t fix LT and LG we will be chanting the o line sucks again next year.

Post #: 188

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:22:43 PM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Ravens trade the 5th rounder we gave them for the kicker we cut and got Calais Campbell.

It was pick # 160, which was a very small price. He brings a hefty salary, but he's a stud.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 189

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:34:00 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9560
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2020 cap up $10M over 2019.

.
.

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
NFL salary cap set at $198.2 million is not great news for the Vikings since many thought it would be at $200 million.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 190

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:39:15 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Ravens trade the 5th rounder we gave them for the kicker we cut and got Calais Campbell.

It was pick # 160, which was a very small price. He brings a hefty salary, but he's a stud.

Also 33.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 191

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:42:20 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If Reiff is still a starter, I have a problem with that. Not sure I can watch another season of him sucking.

When did you find a season of him sucking? I am unaware of such occurrence.

Ok I’m surprised there is support for him. I turned off games because I couldn’t watch him anymore. Didn’t like him since we got him. Just saying if Reiff is our LT we are not going too far with Cousins. Agree LG is worse but both pretty bad. I’m not sure moving O’’Neil solves much. But ok Just my opinion, I respect your knowledge of the game, but my opinion is if we don’t fix LT and LG we will be chanting the o line sucks again next year.

Reif was similar to Griff, imo. Decent against lesser competition but disappeared vs strong competition or in Reiff's case - gave up bunches in pressures/sacks. Which made him average and slightly overpaid.

Moving Oneil is an upgrade if we have options at RT, either inhouse or draft.

LG has to be upgraded - otherwise the line will not get better.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 192

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:44:45 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

2020 cap up $10M over 2019.

.
.

Chris Tomasson@christomasson
NFL salary cap set at $198.2 million is not great news for the Vikings since many thought it would be at $200 million.

Yeah that $1.8 million is a real kick in the teeth

"many" is probably a fabrication anyway.

Post #: 193

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 1:53:07 PM

Bill Johanesen

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After FA and the draft, it's reasonable to expect we will add a starter (rookie or otherwise) at CB, G, and DT. Anything beyond that is gravy, and probably delusional fan-based hoopla.

1 FA, two draftees: FA "splash" with mid-upper tier G, DT in the first, CB in the second.

In the secondary we'll sign flawed, needs-a-change-of-scenery vets and draft boom-bust types. The numbers will depend on who is left among Waynes, Mac, and Harris (if any).

Oh, and for six weeks we'll have the obligatory "big safety" who has some sort of tie to Zimmer.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/15/2020 1:59:41 PM >

Post #: 194

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 2:01:17 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

From some article:

In 2019 we had 7 defensive players making $10+ million.

No other team had more than 4.

League average was 2.6.

*******************

After the cuts we are still tied for the lead at 4 based on that 2019 stat (Barr, Kendricks, Smith, Hunter).

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/15/2020 2:03:30 PM >

Post #: 195

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 2:12:11 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If Reiff is still a starter, I have a problem with that. Not sure I can watch another season of him sucking.

When did you find a season of him sucking? I am unaware of such occurrence.

Ok I’m surprised there is support for him. I turned off games because I couldn’t watch him anymore. Didn’t like him since we got him. Just saying if Reiff is our LT we are not going too far with Cousins. Agree LG is worse but both pretty bad. I’m not sure moving O’’Neil solves much. But ok Just my opinion, I respect your knowledge of the game, but my opinion is if we don’t fix LT and LG we will be chanting the o line sucks again next year.

I think Reiff has been getting dinged up more and more the last two seasons (which in itself is an issue) – but I think he has played 'just okay' to solid at times. Obviously you improve the position if you can but above average LTs are hard to come by.

I remember reading, before we signed him, that his best year (in Detroit) was at RT ... I thought his ability to flip sides gave him added value. If we have any confidence at all that O'Neill can play LT, I would definitely try Reiff at RT before LG.

LG is key. Which would help Reiff or whoever is at LT as well.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 3/15/2020 2:13:27 PM >

Post #: 196

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 2:14:42 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

From some article:

In 2019 we had 7 defensive players making $10+ million.

No other team had more than 4.

League average was 2.6.

*******************

After the cuts we are still tied for the lead at 4 based on that 2019 stat (Barr, Kendricks, Smith, Hunter).

Interesting tidbit.

Yet our defense was only slightly better than league avg

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 197

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 2:26:47 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

If Reiff is still a starter, I have a problem with that. Not sure I can watch another season of him sucking.

When did you find a season of him sucking? I am unaware of such occurrence.

Ok I’m surprised there is support for him. I turned off games because I couldn’t watch him anymore. Didn’t like him since we got him. Just saying if Reiff is our LT we are not going too far with Cousins. Agree LG is worse but both pretty bad. I’m not sure moving O’’Neil solves much. But ok Just my opinion, I respect your knowledge of the game, but my opinion is if we don’t fix LT and LG we will be chanting the o line sucks again next year.

I think Reiff has been getting dinged up more and more the last two seasons (which in itself is an issue) – but I think he has played 'just okay' to solid at times. Obviously you improve the position if you can but above average LTs are hard to come by.

I remember reading, before we signed him, that his best year (in Detroit) was at RT ... I thought his ability to flip sides gave him added value. If we have any confidence at all that O'Neill can play LT, I would definitely try Reiff at RT before LG.

LG is key. Which would help Reiff or whoever is at LT as well.

Reiff had one of his worse PFF grade at RT, and the Lions moved on from him after 1 year at RT.

I agree, Reiff to LG is a horrible idea.

< Message edited by Pager -- 3/15/2020 2:33:35 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 198

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 2:50:14 PM

Tom Sykes

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The Lions did move on from Reiff (signing Wagner I think) which says a lot, although not sure PFF qualifies much of anything for OL.

Post #: 199

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 3/15/2020 5:32:07 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

We have less money available for free agency than we thought. It is what it is.

https://twitter.com/SeanBormanNFL/status/1239294321687441409?s=19

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 200