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RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 10:02:32 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Would you trade Harrison Smith and a second round pick (probably a late selection) for Jamal Adams and pay him the big bucks. A first round pick, he is young and proven. This is a young man's game. On the other hand, it would be nice to see Smith retire as a career Viking.

I am not sure paying two safeties (or even one) big money is all that smart. Safeties use to be the guys that delivered the bone crushing hits across the middle to force receivers to think twice about doing it again. The rules kind of take away their hammer.

Post #: 1801

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 10:12:58 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Would you trade Harrison Smith and a second round pick (probably a late selection) for Jamal Adams and pay him the big bucks. A first round pick, he is young and proven. This is a young man's game. On the other hand, it would be nice to see Smith retire as a career Viking.

I am not sure paying two safeties (or even one) big money is all that smart. Safeties use to be the guys that delivered the bone crushing hits across the middle to force receivers to think twice about doing it again. The rules kind of take away their hammer.

The argument against that is that every one of the corners are on their rookie contract, so it's good to solidify the back end long term before Harrison declines. Actually, I do believe Harrison played at a high level last year. I can see both sides of this question.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1802

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 10:22:10 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Would you trade Harrison Smith and a second round pick (probably a late selection) for Jamal Adams and pay him the big bucks. A first round pick, he is young and proven. This is a young man's game. On the other hand, it would be nice to see Smith retire as a career Viking.

I am not sure paying two safeties (or even one) big money is all that smart. Safeties use to be the guys that delivered the bone crushing hits across the middle to force receivers to think twice about doing it again. The rules kind of take away their hammer.

The argument against that is that every one of the corners are on their rookie contract, so it's good to solidify the back end long term before Harrison declines. Actually, I do believe Harrison played at a high level last year. I can see both sides of this question.

Yes maybe, I would suspect if your corners are getting burned its game over no matter what is behind them.

Post #: 1803

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 10:25:10 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17997
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1804

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 10:40:27 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1805

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 10:40:43 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897525-irv-smith-jr-is-nfls-best-sophomore-tight-end

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1806

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 1:09:10 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9709
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

over the last three years adams had 2 interceptions - smith 11....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1807

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 1:29:20 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

over the last three years adams had 2 interceptions - smith 11....

I recall he scored on a couple of them. You are right. He's a game changer.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1808

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 2:18:05 PM

David F.

Posts: 10892
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online

Harrison Smith is elite and at a point in his contract where an extension could be added to keep his cap hit manageable. We should be doing the same for Ant Harris. We would have four ELITE talents on defense in Hunter, Kendricks, Smith, and Harris with young corners and adequate talent everywhere else.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1809

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 2:56:00 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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I liked this article

https://vikingsterritory.com/2020/analysis/speculating-on-vikings-udfa-dan-chisena

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1810

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 3:16:38 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78720
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

Post #: 1811

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/25/2020 6:18:55 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15694
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los.

Post #: 1812

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 2:02:43 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9709
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

sacks over the last two seasons:

smith 4
Adams 10

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1813

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 2:15:30 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9709
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los.

i've always loved smith, but he did lose track of taysom hill for a couple of big plays that helped the saints to get back into the game...also, anthony harris missed a tackle that allowed hill to find some space....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1814

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 5:59:04 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

sacks over the last two seasons:

smith 4
Adams 10

Character matters and Adams seems to have issues and chemistry is critical, especially this year with a limited off-season.

On the other hand, I've read more than a couple of you say you would rather keep Harris than Smith, so I believe that you are with me when I feel that football is a young man's game. New England has routinely jettisoned some of it's better players and also we have learned that it is better to remove a player sooner than later.

Adams was a top ten lottery pick, so he has to be talented. I'm saying that you would have to consider it, but I don't know enough about Adams to pull the trigger. There is a part of me that wants to see Smith retire a Viking. He has been a loyal and steadfast player- one of the best and underrated for sure.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 6/26/2020 7:00:49 AM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1815

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 10:29:53 AM

David Levine

Posts: 78720
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

sacks over the last two seasons:

smith 4
Adams 10

You have any context for those numbers? They're meaningless in a vacuum.

Post #: 1816

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 11:58:05 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9709
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

sacks over the last two seasons:

smith 4
Adams 10

You have any context for those numbers? They're meaningless in a vacuum.

sorry, ma'am, all i've got is the vacuum...i'm the fuller brush man of stats...but, i'm not promoting anyone either...i see stats that i think the board would appreciate and i post them....

personally, i'd keep smith and draft a safety early next year - maybe dye is our next strong safety and we extend harris...harris is a physical free safety with great range, and one of the best playing...he doesn't get a lot of love, but he might be more valuable than adams....

i think that smith is planning on retiring soon - one or two more years, that's why we didn't extend him to lower our cap this offseason....

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 6/26/2020 11:59:37 AM >

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1817

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 12:22:28 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78720
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

i think that smith is planning on retiring soon - one or two more years, that's why we didn't extend him to lower our cap this offseason....

Has he alluded to that?

He's 31 and has been very healthy. The only game he's missed the past 3 years is when we rested our starters in a meaningless finale against the Bears.

Post #: 1818

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 12:34:56 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9709
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

i think that smith is planning on retiring soon - one or two more years, that's why we didn't extend him to lower our cap this offseason....

Has he alluded to that?

He's 31 and has been very healthy. The only game he's missed the past 3 years is when we rested our starters in a meaningless finale against the Bears.

it's just an intuitive sense that i get...after 2020 he will have made over $50m playing football...he's got his health and plenty of money...he'll always be in the vikings' family - maybe make the ring of honor....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1819

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 1:56:53 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

The team may have trouble paying him. We'll see.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1820

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 1:58:22 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los.

i've always loved smith, but he did lose track of taysom hill for a couple of big plays that helped the saints to get back into the game...also, anthony harris missed a tackle that allowed hill to find some space....

Harris also whiffed on the tackle that led to Kansas City's 96 yard TD run. A huge dagger in the game we lost by 1 score.

Doesn't Adams have two years left on his rookie deal? Earliest a team could talk extension would be next year. So it's not 10M to 15M. It'd be 15M vs 20M (next two years). I'm at work so I didn't look up the exact numbers.

I'm not advocating the trade - there's also scheme to consider. How would Adams do under Zimmer? I think he'd be even more productive.

Regardless as Bruce pointed out. We will have to get younger at Safety very soon with Harris' and Smith's age. I also trust Zimmer on draft/development. He's taken Sandejo and made him decent. Harris and made him a stud. Kearse into something.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 1821

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 2:42:41 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9709
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not sure Adams is an upgrade over Smith when you consider 10ml per with Smith vs Adams 15ml per demands.

Smith is also a beloved player here. trading him wouldn't be real popular. But I can see the value in the youth movement.

I agree. Smith is a better pass defender which is critical with all the young corners. Adams is younger and probably more of a physical force in defending the run. Smith has a superior record of being durable.

If Smith is the better pass defender, I want nothing to do with Adams.

IMO, Smith is at his best near the LOS. He's a monster in the run game and at blitzing. I don't think he's a great cover safety. He gets most of his INTs from tipped passes and wild overthrows.

Harris is our ballhawk. That dude can cover.

I agree. We have a perfect mix of strong and free safety right now with Harris and Smith. They will look even better if our corners can keep some of the pressure off them at the los.

i've always loved smith, but he did lose track of taysom hill for a couple of big plays that helped the saints to get back into the game...also, anthony harris missed a tackle that allowed hill to find some space....

Harris also whiffed on the tackle that led to Kansas City's 96 yard TD run. A huge dagger in the game we lost by 1 score.

Doesn't Adams have two years left on his rookie deal? Earliest a team could talk extension would be next year. So it's not 10M to 15M. It'd be 15M vs 20M (next two years). I'm at work so I didn't look up the exact numbers.

I'm not advocating the trade - there's also scheme to consider. How would Adams do under Zimmer? I think he'd be even more productive.

Regardless as Bruce pointed out. We will have to get younger at Safety very soon with Harris' and Smith's age. I also trust Zimmer on draft/development. He's taken Sandejo and made him decent. Harris and made him a stud. Kearse into something.

adams has one more year and then the 5th year option, but he wants a new deal now - that's his issue with the jets....

there might be some credibility to the Vikes making a deal for desmond king, cb (chargers)...jaleel johnson played with him in Iowa and they've been tweeting/hinting that something might be in the works....

i don't think that we've got a lot of confidence in hughes and hill and we're looking for a proven, but young vet...it'll be interesting to see how things shake out at cornerback over the next two years....

https://thevikingage.com/2020/06/26/minnesota-vikings-rumors-interest-desmond-king/

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1822

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 7:42:58 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

King is a stud at nickel. The problem with the proposed trade is that this is a limited off-season and continuity along the offensive line is at a premium. Are we going to put a rookie second rounder on Cousins blind side to start the season with no OTA's and minicamps?

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1823

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 7:55:54 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

Draft pick signings Minus Vikings NFL 74 out of 240
Vikings 0-15.

Vikings seem to believe that signing draft picks is optional.
In fairness there are still a lot of teams who have signed nobody, but the Vikings have the most picks to sign.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 6/26/2020 8:19:19 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1824

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/26/2020 8:20:07 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

King is a stud at nickel. The problem with the proposed trade is that this is a limited off-season and continuity along the offensive line is at a premium. Are we going to put a rookie second rounder on Cousins blind side to start the season with no OTA's and minicamps?

Reiff out King in huh? I get the consternation. On the other hand the value seems pretty decent.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 6/26/2020 8:22:25 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 1825