kgdabom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Brad H
quote:
Since I don't like being attacked I shouldn't attack others either. I acknowledge I attacked Brad. Some people claim I am misrepresenting his opinions. I don't see how I did. Here is his exact quote if it takes looting and rioting to make changes that may have otherwise never come to fruition, count me in. He supports looting and rioting for sure. Aren't burning and murder part of the riots. How can he say he supports the riots and then act like he isn't supporting those results of the riots. Now his exact words after count me in are I don't think anyone took joy in watching the events. It was upsetting. It was at times chaotic. I'm glad he didn't take joy in watching the events, but it still leaves him in support of the looting and rioting. Maybe he only supports the portion of the rioting that doesn't include burning and murder. I'm listening Brad if you care to explain.
Okay, so I am going to take a shot at this.
First off I am going to say a few things, because apparently I did not make my point clear enough in the original post for guys like kgdabom.
As a general rule, I do not support looting. As a general rule, I do not support rioting. Lets be clear on that. I don't sit back and wait for an opportunity to see someone looting or rioting. It's neither something I take great pride or joy in seeing. Is that clear?
At the same time, I do not support war. I don't wish it on anyone. But I understand at times that it is a necessary evil.
I also don't like process of getting Novocaine when I go to the dentist, but if it is going to dull the pain when at the dentist office you can use my cheek like a dart board.
Having said that, institutional racism has existed in this country for over 200 years. Despite countless attempts through nonviolent measures to try and alleviate or eliminate it, it still exists today nearly as much as it did 40 years ago. Denying that is akin to burying your head in the sand. The George Floyd incident was just another chapter of a book that has played out in this country for 200+ years. It is common place. It is evil. It is inexcusable.
In response to the George Floyd event, the people finally said enough is enough. Despite countless attempts through nonviolent measures to improve the societal norms, they took to the streets in a different manner. With most people protesting in a non-violent manner, some got carried away and burned buildings, looted businesses and unfortunately, some died. Most would agree that that is a fairly accurate description of what happened, would they not? For those that were in the politics thread of Talk Vikes, they know that I instantly called it a revolution. Some disagreed, but most didn't. As the protesting headed into week three, nobody was left to deny it.
The events lasted for quite some time, and took root throughout the nation and even around the world. What has come out of it has been some real change. Things that some thought would never change, have suddenly changed. Statues have fallen. Flags have been deemed racist in nature. The act of kneeling during the anthem was approved by the NBA. Soccer teams in Europe even kneeled during their own anthems. Choke holds by the police have been banned in many states. Some cities are looking at decreasing police funding and holding them more accountable. Historic professional teams have even changed their names. And on and on and on.
Is there anybody out there that thinks any of those things would have changed without the riots and protests? Because, with all due respect, I don't, and I think it's a little naive to think otherwise.
So, having said all that, I believe that the ends justify the means when it comes to this particular instance (< key statement underlined). It doesn't mean that I support looting. It doesn't mean that I support rioting. It doesn't mean that I support burning down businesses. When taken out of context to push an agenda, it may appear that way. But for those that know me best, they know exactly what I meant and have even so much as come in here to defend me.
What upsets me more than anything in this country is the lack of empathy towards the underrepresented. I've spent nearly my entire adult life getting to know the people of the city and their struggles. I've sat down and had dinner with them. I've had extended conversations. I've gone to events with them. In short, I've gotten to know them. So when something like the George Floyd incident happens, I feel their extended pain. It's this little thing called humanity. You may have heard of it.
So again I ask the question, was the looting and rioting worth it? Buildings were burned and businesses were lost, but good things came out of it. People's lives were altered. Unfortunately, a few people died. Many would say the very same thing about World War II. The ends justified the means. I would hope that we could get to a point in this country when it didn't have to come to that. Unfortunately, we are still a young country and have a lot of issues that have gone unaddressed due to a lack of humanity.
In short, the people of this country have had 240+ years to get it right. Which side of history do you want to stand on? I know which side I stand on, and I suffer no embarrassment in saying that the protests of 2020 were one of the bright spots in what was an otherwise shitty year. I feel sorry for those that lost their businesses. I take zero joy in those that lost their lives. But I do take a lot of pride in knowing that we saw a huge shift in the attitude towards institutional racism. It gives a glimmer of hope, in what was mostly a hopeless year. It once again proves that good things can come out of bad events. It's all a matter of perspective.
Now, for my critics, go ahead and grab one sentence or comment and blow it out of context to make it into something that supports your narrative. I feel no further need to defend myself. I've explained how I feel. It is here for everyone to see.
And for what it's worth, any one-liner responses or quick little jabs will get no response from me. If you wish to take a stance on the other side, make it thoughtful, respectful and thorough. Anything else is not worth my time.
Peace.
After reading that I still have the same belief about what you said. You said the ends justifies the means and it was an overall good thing that there was looting, rioting, burning and murder. Not that you per se are a fan of those things, but the results that came about made it worth it. I vehemently disagree. I don't believe those things had anything positive about them and even if they did it's still not worth it.
You talk about the 240 years of abuse. You fail to mention the incredible progress made over those 240 years. These riots in my opinion have set us back. The best progress was made under the peaceful protesting led by Martin Luther King Jr.
There is no systemic racism in our country. It is fully outlawed. Racism sure. Systemic. No way.
Team names being changed had nothing to do with the George Floyd Riots.
The NBA endorsing the kneeling is a negative.
I have yet to see that racism had anything to do with George Floyd dying. It may or may not have. Overaggressive police for sure were the cause of George Floyd's death. I'm not going to assume that the color of George's skin had anything to do with it.
As for your having dinner with the underrepresented in our society good for you. Those people are them to you. I have lived in the heart of the hood. Many of my best friends in my life Black, White and Native are from the hood. "Those people" are us to me. So what? Who cares?
Defunding or decreasing funding to the police is not a good thing.
Many times police die due to hesitating, like the one I mentioned who died here in Flagstaff. I'm not sure banning choke holds is the best idea.
So IMO all your support to the looting and rioting which included burning and murder did nothing positive, and has probably resulted in increased racism.
I however, believe that you believe those riots had good results.
< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/15/2020 1:07:05 PM >
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