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RE: NFL Draft 2021

 
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 2:37:45 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Kirk Cousins, hell, I don't know if he can be the type of QB that leads a team to a championship. I hate the amount of money these QB's are taking up in the cap, but I understand that it's about the market and what it bares. What I have done is look at where this team currently sits and if we are capable of making a run at a title. I believe we are better off, (right now), staying with an experienced QB that has some solid characteristics to help the team reach it's goal. He throws the football very well, his accuracy is solid and he can throw deep and intermediate routes with the best of them. His mobility is lacking, he's a bit of a nerd, but these are not reasons for changing that position at this time. The cost of moving on from him and drafting a top tier QB would have been huge and we would still be talking about the needs in the offensive line. Sure a mobile QB eliminates the need for a great offensive line, but look at KC, they realized that their mobile QB needs a better line if he is going to survive. Also, my evaluation of the Vikings offense tells me that our running game will also get better as our O-line improves. So having a capable/experienced QB that is an accurate passer and solid in the play action game, for me, is a much quicker way to get this team to a title.

Our defense will be significantly different this year. Everyone should know what players are coming back or coming in. This group will be light years better than what we experienced last year. Our offense will also have that going for it.

This was the way to go if you are wanting to win now. We have the team to do it, we just need a little luck and some solid coaching. Our special teams will be almost completely be rebuilt, another area where we will need some luck and coaching. It looks like there will be a solid group of athletes to choose from, but both the punter and kicker are still a question mark.

Lots of time to coach these guys up and get ready, the pieces look to be pretty impressive, I'm liking this team to be a contender in the NFC.

Good post Dana.

There are a few Cousins haters on the board that feel he carries little value but I think most are in the middle ... he can put up good numbers that help produce wins during the regular season but he may or may not perform at the same level in the playoffs when things tighten up. Depends on what we put around him.

What we put around him has significantly improved this offseason. On paper. There are still some important depth acquisitions that need to be made, we'll see how that goes.

For my money, I wish that we had invested in a young QB last year or the year before to help loosen the choke-hold he has on us moving forward from this point ... but we are where we are.


The Teddy injury put us in that problem but then we would have Teddy.....who isn't a franchise QB. Jets, Saints, Panthers, and now Denver have concurred that.

Denver and Washington have concurred that Case wasn't a franchise QB.....Arizona concurred on Bradford. Out of the 4 we did make the right choice.

We got ourselves into this mess when we traded for Bradford, who everyone knew couldn't stay healthy.


Basically a below average backup is what got us in the mess. Then we had to overpay. Spielman has done that many times.....luckily Cousins has stayed healthy but cap wise Cousins/Mannion has been cheap.

We only paid Mannion a 1 million last year.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 5/4/2021 2:39:14 PM >


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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 2:43:50 PM   
Dana Turner


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On paper, our defense looks like a top tier defense. On paper, our offense looks as good as it has in ten years. If Cousins can't win with what looks like the best team he's ever been on, well, we're screwed for a couple years and it will be time for someone else. I have doubts that that person is Mond, but you never know. Cap shmap, it is what it is, the players and coaches need to perform and make it happen, the pieces are there, so let it be done!
Post #: 2777
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 2:45:39 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner
On paper, our defense looks like a top tier defense. On paper, our offense looks as good as it has in ten years. If Cousins can't win with what looks like the best team he's ever been on, well, we're screwed for a couple years and it will be time for someone else. I have doubts that that person is Mond, but you never know. Cap shmap, it is what it is, the players and coaches need to perform and make it happen, the pieces are there, so let it be done!


Yep...lots of one year deals. (Barr, Alexander, Peterson, Smith, Hughes, Weatherly, Vigil, Woods)

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 5/4/2021 2:49:04 PM >


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Post #: 2778
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 2:57:09 PM   
Pager


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I agree the only number that matters is his 2022 Cap Hit - 45M.

There is an out, trading him. We would incur 10M cap hit, but rid ourselves of 35M. We could also pay a portion of the 35M to make him more tradable.

I don't necessarily think we need to move him and would prefer to keep him on that last year of a deal if it helps a young QB (Mond or a new draft pick). If the cap moves up (based on the new TV deal) from 185 to 200-210M, we are in pretty good shape next year.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:00:53 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.


I don't think that is true IF he is traded... you are not on the hook for the 35 mil salary IF he is traded.



Just saw this and beo is correct. 10M hit and 35M cap relief. We could pay 10M easily (if cap goes up to 200-210), save 25M, and be in the best shape we've been in cap wise since probably 2017 or 2018 (when we originally signed Cousins).

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Post #: 2780
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:16:05 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Here are some future HOF UDFAs still out there.

I am sitting and watching our FO carefully to see if they are Phil-satisfied with how things stand

or, whether they are willing to push this offseason's plunder towards the zenith of all human endeavor.


OG Jared Hocker, Texas A&M – 6'6 327 3 year starter; big powerful mauler and violent striker; more of a phone booth type but is effective with lateral positioning and pulling across the formation to secure his target.


WR Austin Watkins, Alabama-Birmingham – 6'1 1/2 201 one Zierlein's hidden gems / former Packer James Jones thinks he's Anquan Boldin II; big physical explosive out of breaks; fearless in traffic; partitions off nosey corners.


TE Artayvious Lynn, TCU 6'5 254 ... former basketball player with extremely long arms = big catch radius; hands are nice and sticky; plays with quick pluck-and-tuck; decent wiggle; decent blocking on the move.

This is the Anquon Boldin reference -- not the Iowa wide receiver.


Oh yeah, I mean that guy.
Post #: 2781
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:18:16 PM   
Dana Turner


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Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!

< Message edited by Dana Turner -- 5/4/2021 3:20:39 PM >
Post #: 2782
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:23:18 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).



I honestly wouldn't care if we then signed him to Bonilla contract that paid him for 20 years after he was no longer a Viking

At that point you are picking 32nd - so I think you keep drafting QBs like Mond and then you approach it from a pure business aspect. Does Cousins (at whatever new contract) or a young guy give you the best chance to win?

But you're not going to be able to trade up to 10 or higher to draft a top QB prospect.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/4/2021 3:24:58 PM >


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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:32:09 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!


I wouldn't trade him if we make the playoffs. Draft another QB in the 2nd or 3rd and let those two battle it out in 2023.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:32:14 PM   
Todd M

 

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Thankful for Dana's perspective.

I don't know what it says about a person but when it's a fresh year full of fresh hope and all you want to do is beat a dead horse over something you have no control over but man its annoying.
Post #: 2785
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:33:38 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M
Thankful for Dana's perspective.
I don't know what it says about a person but when it's a fresh year full of fresh hope and all you want to do is beat a dead horse over something you have no control over but man its annoying.


+1
I am just happy what they did with Reiffs & Rudolph's money....still amazed by that and I remember the Teddy days of 15-18 TDs which we thought were awesome compared to Ponder and then the Bradford/Case couple of years.

I think Cousins gives us a chance to win---be nice to keep a 30 TD guy happy for at least 2 more years.

Kirk Stats
2018 30 TD 10 INT 40 times sacked
2019 26 TD 6 INT 28 times sacked
2020 35 TD 13 INT 39 times sacked

Teddy stats:
2015 14 TDs 9 INT 39 times sacked
2014 14 TDs 12 INT 44 times sacked

Case stats:
2017 22 TDs 7 INTS 22 times sacked

Bradford stats
2016 Stats 20 TDs 5 Ints 37 times sacked

I think I like what Kirk does better....I don't even want to post Ponder stats.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 5/4/2021 4:02:06 PM >


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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:34:27 PM   
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!


To me that would be a Ravens/Joe Flacco situation.... do you spend big money to keep him... probably damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Post #: 2787
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 3:47:19 PM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Hypothetical question: If the Vikings win the superbowl this year, do we still want to trade Cousins? Sure, the guys that hate cousins will say we won for other reason, or in spite of him, but the question is a legit question, his trade value would be at it's peak, but then he would also be the only QB in Viking history to help this franchise win a title (modern day).

I say keep him, that would be my vote. I'm not a huge fan as I feel he is a bit of an odd geek type, but I've seen him make some very impressive throws and if we win the superbowl, he can stay!


I think it depends on how he plays. If he plays well, then sure. Let him play out his deal.

But if he "Dilfers" us to a SB (4 games, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 3 FUM, 48%, 148 yards/game), and we win in spite of him, then try to sucker another team into trading for the "Super Bowl winner"...
Post #: 2788
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:26:50 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.


Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.


Longshot... but wouldn't a trade get you out of it?

If I read over the cap correctly (and my track record is spotty at best), if the Vikings were to trade Cousins after June 1, they would carry $10M in dead cap for both 2021 and 2022. His new team of course, would be the ones actually paying him.

I hope I got that right. Otherwise Bill will come in and pistol whip me.



People need to quit with this $10 million thing, but no pistol whipping.

I don't know why Phil's link is to career earning. Dumb. It's about Cousins' CONTRACT: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/

Pretty easy to ascertain the cap hit AND dead cap in general. I don't know the ins and outs of each WRT the season start, June 1st, etc.

Look at the amount of dead cap. Overthecap has some other fields.
Post #: 2789
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:31:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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By the way 8 OL Phil, here is my sports lineup you can keep track of:

Lakers - defending champs, and as I mentioned in the Wolves thread 1+ month ago the Nets should easily take it all if they are healthy.
Dodgers - defending champs.
Lewis Hamilton - defending champion AND a key win in this relatively early season.

So suck on that.
Post #: 2790
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:33:32 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.


Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.

What's the thing about Cousins being cut and just owed $10 million for next year. I swear I've heard that, but maybe I misunderstood it.


We would have had to cut him prior to last season to avoid the $35 million for 2022. Doing that would have still been a massive cap hit as his entire 2020 and 2021 salary would have hit all at once along with three doses of his prorated $10 million per year signing bonus.

So, we keep doubling down on stupidity.


Technically we were only stupid once - when we extended him. The extension always had the current year guaranteed with the next season guaranteed as long as he was on the roster at a certain date. Basically is was a fully guaranteed extension with the exception that each coming season triggered separately but always so early on that it was improbable to ever cut him. Now the final year has been triggered to be guaranteed so it's all set in stone.

On the plus side - Kirk now truly has nothing to lose and everything to gain. He has two seasons to try and bring a title to Minnesota. If he does it then he's instantly the most revered QB in Vikings franchise history. If he fails he simply joins a long list of others who also didn't get it done. Literally no pressure.


You've been on an absolute roll lately but disagree and say we were also stupid to be the first team (I think) to give out a 100% guaranteed contract. At least throw some incentives in there.
Post #: 2791
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:35:01 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27641
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.


Nope, dead cap also prevents the team from spending.
Post #: 2792
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:39:08 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

Kirk Cousins, hell, I don't know if he can be the type of QB that leads a team to a championship. I hate the amount of money these QB's are taking up in the cap, but I understand that it's about the market and what it bares. What I have done is look at where this team currently sits and if we are capable of making a run at a title. I believe we are better off, (right now), staying with an experienced QB that has some solid characteristics to help the team reach it's goal. He throws the football very well, his accuracy is solid and he can throw deep and intermediate routes with the best of them. His mobility is lacking, he's a bit of a nerd, but these are not reasons for changing that position at this time. The cost of moving on from him and drafting a top tier QB would have been huge and we would still be talking about the needs in the offensive line. Sure a mobile QB eliminates the need for a great offensive line, but look at KC, they realized that their mobile QB needs a better line if he is going to survive. Also, my evaluation of the Vikings offense tells me that our running game will also get better as our O-line improves. So having a capable/experienced QB that is an accurate passer and solid in the play action game, for me, is a much quicker way to get this team to a title.

Our defense will be significantly different this year. Everyone should know what players are coming back or coming in. This group will be light years better than what we experienced last year. Our offense will also have that going for it.

This was the way to go if you are wanting to win now. We have the team to do it, we just need a little luck and some solid coaching. Our special teams will be almost completely be rebuilt, another area where we will need some luck and coaching. It looks like there will be a solid group of athletes to choose from, but both the punter and kicker are still a question mark.

Lots of time to coach these guys up and get ready, the pieces look to be pretty impressive, I'm liking this team to be a contender in the NFC.

Good post Dana.

There are a few Cousins haters on the board that feel he carries little value but I think most are in the middle ... he can put up good numbers that help produce wins during the regular season but he may or may not perform at the same level in the playoffs when things tighten up. Depends on what we put around him.

What we put around him has significantly improved this offseason. On paper. There are still some important depth acquisitions that need to be made, we'll see how that goes.

For my money, I wish that we had invested in a young QB last year or the year before to help loosen the choke-hold he has on us moving forward from this point ... but we are where we are.


Each paragraph in your post is an accurate synopsis of key issues facing this team.
Post #: 2793
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:41:49 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Cousins is who he is.

You are not going to win because of him (Mahomes Rodgers Brady class)

You CAN win with him but everything has to be damn near perfect for a playoff run. Lots of teams in that boat but Vikings are paying a big time premium for that 2nd tier QB.


Bingo! People need to periodically refer to those fundamentals. Maybe they can send monthly email reminder to themselves.
Post #: 2794
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:49:20 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.

quote:

$45-million for Kirk Cousins. That is bordering on the Herschel Walker fiasco.


The cap hit isn't what he is making as they restructured him....again cap hit doesn't equal what he makes that year. The 40 million in 2020 and 35 in 2022 where because of the restructure to lower 20 & 21.

Drew Bress has a cap hit for 2021 even though he is retired as he signed an extension before he retired to help NO cap.

The cap is ALL that matters---who gives a shitt about Kirk's bank account? That subracted from the cap is how much is available for other players.


LOL, thank you. A link to his cash earnings! As you know on the politics thread, Phil is our resident guru on anything financial. Need a deep dive on impact of potential administration plans for capital gains taxes and how it could affect the market? Taxes in general? The market in general? Phil is your man. And good luck with that!
Post #: 2795
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:52:31 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76920
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.


Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.


Longshot... but wouldn't a trade get you out of it?

If I read over the cap correctly (and my track record is spotty at best), if the Vikings were to trade Cousins after June 1, they would carry $10M in dead cap for both 2021 and 2022. His new team of course, would be the ones actually paying him.

I hope I got that right. Otherwise Bill will come in and pistol whip me.



People need to quit with this $10 million thing, but no pistol whipping.

I don't know why Phil's link is to career earning. Dumb. It's about Cousins' CONTRACT: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/

Pretty easy to ascertain the cap hit AND dead cap in general. I don't know the ins and outs of each WRT the season start, June 1st, etc.

Look at the amount of dead cap. Overthecap has some other fields.


Dead Cap is if we cut him. If we trade him, we're not on the hook for his base salary (21M and 35M) anymore, just his remaining bonus money (20M if we trade him this year, 10M if we trade him next year).
Post #: 2796
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:52:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.

The cap hit is all that matters, because that's what determines how much is available to sign other players----as it is for any player's salary. If he is cut, the cap hit is $45M; injured, same; benched, same; MVP, same; Super Bowl winner, same.

The only way to change that is to extend him, which is how the cap hit ended up where it is now.

quote:

$45-million for Kirk Cousins. That is bordering on the Herschel Walker fiasco.


The cap hit isn't what he is making as they restructured him....again cap hit doesn't equal what he makes that year. The 40 million in 2020 and 35 in 2022 where because of the restructure to lower 20 & 21.

Drew Bress has a cap hit for 2021 even though he is retired as he signed an extension before he retired to help NO cap.

The cap is ALL that matters---who gives a shitt about Kirk's bank account? That subracted from the cap is how much is available for other players.


I don't care about his bank account...but complaining about his cap number? The issue is what the FO did. They signed him; they restructured him. The restructure wasn't the right call but him over Case, Teddy, and Sam was.

But that's what determines what's available for other players, which is all that matters. It's not Kirk's fault. Those other guys don't matter relative to the extension, which is what we're talking about.


OK, I won't butt in on this upcoming slaughter.

Post #: 2797
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 5:58:30 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27641
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: beo

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: David F.

Next year Cousins will make $45 million - and it's all guaranteed.


That actually is the cap hit from the restructure and signing bonus as part of the restructure.

Here is what you need to look at:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/cash-earnings/

2018 26
2019 28
2020 40 (30 million SB restructure/10 salary)
2021 21
2022 35

If the FO keeps restructuring the Cap Hit gets ugly...Saints have to pay Brees the next year or two for what they did.


Yes I should have said counts $45 million against the cap, and there's no getting out of it. Cousins is our starting QB for the next two seasons.


Longshot... but wouldn't a trade get you out of it?

If I read over the cap correctly (and my track record is spotty at best), if the Vikings were to trade Cousins after June 1, they would carry $10M in dead cap for both 2021 and 2022. His new team of course, would be the ones actually paying him.

I hope I got that right. Otherwise Bill will come in and pistol whip me.



People need to quit with this $10 million thing, but no pistol whipping.

I don't know why Phil's link is to career earning. Dumb. It's about Cousins' CONTRACT: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/

Pretty easy to ascertain the cap hit AND dead cap in general. I don't know the ins and outs of each WRT the season start, June 1st, etc.

Look at the amount of dead cap. Overthecap has some other fields.


Dead Cap is if we cut him. If we trade him, we're not on the hook for his base salary (21M and 35M) anymore, just his remaining bonus money (20M if we trade him this year, 10M if we trade him next year).


True, but trading him isn't entering my mind in the realm of possibilities. So yes there are the other 'options' at least on paper.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/4/2021 6:17:43 PM >
Post #: 2798
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 6:16:06 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27641
Status: offline
"but cap wise Cousins/Mannion has been cheap." Written here on 5/4/2021 by our resident financial guru.

Simply put, that doesn't mean a thing because you fail to see how the future years are completely tied in to the past. That was the purpose of the restructure!

Not to mention what he has earned with Minny isn't cheap but YMMV.

Go find out what our dead cap is if we cut Cousins AFTER June 1st, 2022 and report back.
Post #: 2799
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/4/2021 8:20:07 PM   
Murph


Posts: 1935
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline
I really liked the Mond pick but wonder if we should have been more aggressive pursuing Fields?

Keep him from the Bears too.

Time will tell.

Clip below from McAfee's show:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPPbSvvoti4

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".
Post #: 2800
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