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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2021 7:53:59 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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nm

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/29/2021 8:15:00 PM >
Post #: 2201
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2021 10:18:15 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

One indisputable stat is Kurt Cousins is a perennial top 10 fumbling QB: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=18


His lack of pocket presence is what keeps him from being a top 10 QB

Way too many unforced sacks and fumbles. Drive killers.


And according to that cherry picked stat, he is a better QB than both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.
Post #: 2202
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2021 10:22:29 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Do you remember the entirety of your baby time and know whether or not you were dropped on your head?

****


I remember mine and I was dropped a lot.


To the best of your memory?
Post #: 2203
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2021 10:29:11 PM   
TJSweens


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Post #: 2204
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2021 10:50:37 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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IMO Cousins is a POS and this team will absolutely never go anywhere with him.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 2205
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2021 10:55:06 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

IMO Cousins is a POS and this team will absolutely never go anywhere with him.


How does Point of Service apply in the NFL?
Post #: 2206
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 8:00:53 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

IMO Cousins is a POS and this team will absolutely never go anywhere with him.

He's far from perfect, but under the right circumstances (including a good defense), they can win with him.

https://youtu.be/har_80rizo0?t=226
Post #: 2207
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 8:44:59 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

One indisputable stat is Kurt Cousins is a perennial top 10 fumbling QB: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=18


His lack of pocket presence is what keeps him from being a top 10 QB

Way too many unforced sacks and fumbles. Drive killers.


And according to that cherry picked stat, he is a better QB than both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.


The topic was about turnovers, and fumbles were being talked around.

Or maybe your post was meant for someone else
Post #: 2208
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 8:48:31 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

One indisputable stat is Kurt Cousins is a perennial top 10 fumbling QB: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=18


His lack of pocket presence is what keeps him from being a top 10 QB

Way too many unforced sacks and fumbles. Drive killers.

Yep. Such drive killers that we finished 4th in the NFL in offense. Just imagine if the OL wasn't one of the worst in the league.

Fourth in Yards. Big deal.

5th in rushing yards, 14th in receiving yards. Combined for 4th in total yds.

You can have a boatload of yards but if that doesn't convert into scoring ...

Percentage of Drives ending in a score: 39.8 (ranked 18) ...
Points scored by team: 430 (ranked 11th )
There are so many variables that are more important than just plain ol' yards.

As far as KC taking care of the football ...

2020 INTs: 13 – Tied for 3rd (2 more INTs and KC would have tied the league leader)
2020 Fumbles: 9 – Tied for 3rd (2 more fumbles and KC would have tied the league leader)

As far as blaming everything on the OL ... its a feeble excuse.

According to PFF, the worst performing OLs last year were the Chargers (rookie Hebert 10INTs/4Fs in 15 Games ), Giants (Daniel Jones 10INTs/3Fs in 14 games [back-up Colt Mcoy had 1 INT]), Bengals (rookie Burrow had 5INTs in 10 games (backup Allen 4 INTS in 5 games) ...

Not only does KC NOT take care of the ball, he's a consistent TO machine over the course of his career.


You've blown his point of KC taking "very good care of the ball" clear out of the water.

Game-set-match. Checkmate if you will.

Not to mention pointing out we were 14th in receiving yards to checkmate the desperate "we were 4th in yards" proclamation.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/30/2021 8:52:45 AM >
Post #: 2209
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 9:09:11 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

One indisputable stat is Kurt Cousins is a perennial top 10 fumbling QB: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=18


His lack of pocket presence is what keeps him from being a top 10 QB

Way too many unforced sacks and fumbles. Drive killers.

Yep. Such drive killers that we finished 4th in the NFL in offense. Just imagine if the OL wasn't one of the worst in the league.

Fourth in Yards. Big deal.

5th in rushing yards, 14th in receiving yards. Combined for 4th in total yds.

You can have a boatload of yards but if that doesn't convert into scoring ...

Percentage of Drives ending in a score: 39.8 (ranked 18) ...
Points scored by team: 430 (ranked 11th )
There are so many variables that are more important than just plain ol' yards.

As far as KC taking care of the football ...

2020 INTs: 13 – Tied for 3rd (2 more INTs and KC would have tied the league leader)
2020 Fumbles: 9 – Tied for 3rd (2 more fumbles and KC would have tied the league leader)

As far as blaming everything on the OL ... its a feeble excuse.

According to PFF, the worst performing OLs last year were the Chargers (rookie Hebert 10INTs/4Fs in 15 Games ), Giants (Daniel Jones 10INTs/3Fs in 14 games [back-up Colt Mcoy had 1 INT]), Bengals (rookie Burrow had 5INTs in 10 games (backup Allen 4 INTS in 5 games) ...

Not only does KC NOT take care of the ball, he's a consistent TO machine over the course of his career.


You've blown his point of KC taking "very good care of the ball" clear out of the water.

Game-set-match. Checkmate if you will.

Not to mention pointing out we were 14th in receiving yards to checkmate the desperate "we were 4th in yards" proclamation.

+1

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 2210
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 9:20:04 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

One indisputable stat is Kurt Cousins is a perennial top 10 fumbling QB: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=18


His lack of pocket presence is what keeps him from being a top 10 QB

Way too many unforced sacks and fumbles. Drive killers.

Yep. Such drive killers that we finished 4th in the NFL in offense. Just imagine if the OL wasn't one of the worst in the league.

Fourth in Yards. Big deal.

5th in rushing yards, 14th in receiving yards. Combined for 4th in total yds.

You can have a boatload of yards but if that doesn't convert into scoring ...

Percentage of Drives ending in a score: 39.8 (ranked 18) ...
Points scored by team: 430 (ranked 11th )
There are so many variables that are more important than just plain ol' yards.

As far as KC taking care of the football ...

2020 INTs: 13 – Tied for 3rd (2 more INTs and KC would have tied the league leader)
2020 Fumbles: 9 – Tied for 3rd (2 more fumbles and KC would have tied the league leader)

As far as blaming everything on the OL ... its a feeble excuse.

According to PFF, the worst performing OLs last year were the Chargers (rookie Hebert 10INTs/4Fs in 15 Games ), Giants (Daniel Jones 10INTs/3Fs in 14 games [back-up Colt Mcoy had 1 INT]), Bengals (rookie Burrow had 5INTs in 10 games (backup Allen 4 INTS in 5 games) ...

Not only does KC NOT take care of the ball, he's a consistent TO machine over the course of his career.


You've blown his point of KC taking "very good care of the ball" clear out of the water.

Game-set-match. Checkmate if you will.

Not to mention pointing out we were 14th in receiving yards to checkmate the desperate "we were 4th in yards" proclamation.

But you shouldn't ignore that rushing yards and receiving yards are inversely related on average. The rushing game wouldn't be as productive if the passing game didn't pose a threat and vice versa. Difficult to disentangle, I would say.
Post #: 2211
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 9:55:44 AM   
Brad H


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How does he do in the final two minutes? It's the only stat that matters. Cousins had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves last season. You can't be that bad and have any real expectations of a deep run in the playoffs.

The final two minutes is about leadership, charisma and moxy. He has very little of it.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 5/30/2021 9:58:25 AM >


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Post #: 2212
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 10:16:05 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

One indisputable stat is Kurt Cousins is a perennial top 10 fumbling QB: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/fumbles?season_id=18


His lack of pocket presence is what keeps him from being a top 10 QB

Way too many unforced sacks and fumbles. Drive killers.

Yep. Such drive killers that we finished 4th in the NFL in offense. Just imagine if the OL wasn't one of the worst in the league.

Fourth in Yards. Big deal.

5th in rushing yards, 14th in receiving yards. Combined for 4th in total yds.

You can have a boatload of yards but if that doesn't convert into scoring ...

Percentage of Drives ending in a score: 39.8 (ranked 18) ...
Points scored by team: 430 (ranked 11th )
There are so many variables that are more important than just plain ol' yards.

As far as KC taking care of the football ...

2020 INTs: 13 – Tied for 3rd (2 more INTs and KC would have tied the league leader)
2020 Fumbles: 9 – Tied for 3rd (2 more fumbles and KC would have tied the league leader)

As far as blaming everything on the OL ... its a feeble excuse.

According to PFF, the worst performing OLs last year were the Chargers (rookie Hebert 10INTs/4Fs in 15 Games ), Giants (Daniel Jones 10INTs/3Fs in 14 games [back-up Colt Mcoy had 1 INT]), Bengals (rookie Burrow had 5INTs in 10 games (backup Allen 4 INTS in 5 games) ...

Not only does KC NOT take care of the ball, he's a consistent TO machine over the course of his career.


You've blown his point of KC taking "very good care of the ball" clear out of the water.

Game-set-match. Checkmate if you will.

Not to mention pointing out we were 14th in receiving yards to checkmate the desperate "we were 4th in yards" proclamation.

But you shouldn't ignore that rushing yards and receiving yards are inversely related on average. The rushing game wouldn't be as productive if the passing game didn't pose a threat and vice versa. Difficult to disentangle, I would say.


True, but in 2020 we were 8th in the league in rushing attempts and only 27th in passing attempts. Iin 2019 we were 4th in rushing attempts and 30th in passing attempts. This diminishes any inverse relationship or average spread.

Because of that imbalance, KC benefits significantly with play action. what defenses are expecting as far as tendencies, etc.

And perhaps Cook does better than it appears because clearly the league knows we are going to run a lot.

All in all just generalized conclusions and there is no direct correlation.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/30/2021 10:17:10 AM >
Post #: 2213
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 10:39:51 AM   
TJSweens


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Post #: 2214
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 11:31:14 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Some people just don't get it at all. As I mentioned the best players are the ones with the most TOs. It's part of the job. The stat to look at is TDs/TO which is a good indication of efficiency. Based on TDs per Int Kirk is one of the best of all time. My guess is that he still does well based on TDs/TOs. Produce that stat and if he fares poorly I will reconsider.

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So let it be done."
Post #: 2215
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 11:40:54 AM  1 votes
Dana Turner


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FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.
Post #: 2216
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 11:45:31 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.



_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2217
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 5:16:14 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.

As usual, a thoughtful post.

As with every other QB, until they improve on or disprove what seem to be their major flaw(s) ... its easy for those flaws - like performance under pressure - to overshadow their strengths.

I think KC deserves the reputation he has for not being good under pressure, even though I have seen a handful of games where he has done everything he could possibly do (under pressure), we just didn't get the win. Those outcomes were not his fault.

For that reason, I think it is wrong to assume that he is incapable of winning a big game or even stringing together a SB run. The arm talent is right there with some of the other QBs that have won it all.

However, the confidence issue is troublesome, he does fall apart at times with multiple TOs. Also, to my eye, as good as he is at taking advantage of what the defense gives him ... he seems not good at overcoming adversity, a bad bounce, a penalty ... a shift in momentum.

And since IMO SB runs are as much about momentum and confidence as skill, my expectations for him are very guarded.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/30/2021 5:29:28 PM >
Post #: 2218
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 5:25:43 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.



FYI you are posting ditto emoji for a 'Cousins has strengths and weaknesses' post that absolutely annihilates your own narrow, one-sided view.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/30/2021 5:30:10 PM >
Post #: 2219
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 8:46:53 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.



FYI you are posting ditto emoji for a 'Cousins has strengths and weaknesses' post that absolutely annihilates your own narrow, one-sided view.

Cousins has thousands of weaknesses. Just none significant enough for me to consider him any less than a top 10 QB. Once a person gets that through his head he realizes that we are fortunate to have him.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/30/2021 9:09:14 PM >


_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2220
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 9:42:59 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.



FYI you are posting ditto emoji for a 'Cousins has strengths and weaknesses' post that absolutely annihilates your own narrow, one-sided view.

Cousins has thousands of weaknesses. Just none significant enough for me to consider him any less than a top 10 QB. Once a person gets that through his head he realizes that we are fortunate to have him.

Good.

You are backing down from Top 5 QB who does everything right.

Welcome back to reality.
Post #: 2221
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 10:41:28 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

FWIW, Here's my take on the Cousins discussion.

I believe there is enough evidence to slot him in the right category. He has a solid arm, is an accurate passer in all three of the phases that get graded. He is solid in play action and has proven he can throw accurately on the move. He is a better than average QB at reading coverage's and is intelligent enough to have a full understanding of the playbook and game plans.

What he is not: He does not have the movement skills that are in vogue in today's NFL, his ability to scramble is poor, it appears he does not "sense" the rush around him very well. I believe it is a positive that he's willing to stand in the pocket in the face of the rush to deliver a throw, but it is also not too smart and his penchant to hold the ball ends up costing more than it's worth. I believe that the good/great QB's all must do a tremendous amount of self scouting to understand what the league (read, defensive coordinators) believes are his tells/tendencies, I'm not sure he's good at that. It appears he makes the same mistakes when bated, I'd like to see more growth in this department at this stage of his career. I also believe in a room full of alpha males, you can't be the biggest nerd in the room and expect the guys to truly follow you.

I believe he is a good enough QB to lead a good team to a title. As long as you understand that he won't carry the team and drag them across the finish line. His good traits out-weigh his bad traits, but his bad traits are not going away, he is who he is. We have never seen him with a solid functional offensive line, I believe the Vikings now have the ability to put a solid line out on the field and we will see a better cousins than we have seen so far. Will it be noticeably better, well, not if you are looking for flashy elevated play. It will probably just look way more efficient and that will make Zimmer a happy man.

Cousins is a top ten QB in this league, with a few flaws. Lucky for us, some of those flaws get marginalized with a solid O-line. Our skill players on offense are as good as the other top offenses in the league, with a good offensive line I believe we can see better play from Cousins, really see the best he has and we can go from there.



FYI you are posting ditto emoji for a 'Cousins has strengths and weaknesses' post that absolutely annihilates your own narrow, one-sided view.

Cousins has thousands of weaknesses. Just none significant enough for me to consider him any less than a top 10 QB. Once a person gets that through his head he realizes that we are fortunate to have him.

Good.

You are backing down from Top 5 QB who does everything right.

Welcome back to reality.

I think my statement was he does most QB things well or something like that. He may be top 5. I can say top 10 with no reservations whatsoever.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2222
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 11:03:06 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40694
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Well if Cousins has thousands of weaknesses I think he's a POS that won't lead us anywhere either.
Post #: 2223
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 11:05:16 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40694
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Kirk Cousins 9243 weaknesses.
Post #: 2224
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2021 11:11:31 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
Cousins is in the 11-15 range in terms of QBs.

QBs I 100% put ahead of him:

Rodgers
Brady
Watson
Mahomes
Dak
Josh Allen
Russel Wilson

QBs I 80% sure put ahead of him:

Tannehill
Lamar Jackson
Justin Herbert
Rapeyburger

QBs I 60% sure put ahead of him:

Derek Carr
Matt Ryan
Kyler Murray

Drew Brees would have been in the 100% category but not in 2020.

< Message edited by David F. -- 5/30/2021 11:13:53 PM >


_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 2225
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