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RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 10:11:30 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

A lot of ? marks in the trenches for this team.

Are Pierce and Tomlinson going to be good?

Are two rookie OL going to be any good?

Chances are 50/50 unless you have really thick purple goggles simliar to what KG wears

I specifically noted that Darrisaw and Davis were unknowns that our season will hinge upon. Tomlinson and Pierce are knowns that I expect to be good.


I specifically saw 1st and 2nd team all-american selections for our 2 selections on the oline.

When they're coming to the Pros an All American selection and $5.99 can get you a small cup of coffee at Starbucks. Point being All American doesn't mean much.
Don't by any means take this to mean that I don't expect them to be good, but at this time we can't really count on them being good. I'm hopeful.


Yes that is true but I saw the leadership skills of both mentioned and a Vikings skit of just general Vikings knowledge and Darrisaw especially is one smart guy...


What general Vikings knowledge was Darrisaw so smart at? History? Stats? Trivia? Selecting Ron Yary for $100? Reciting head coach rants?

I won't even ask the logical follow-on about relevance.

Darrisaw and Barr can stretch out before games throwing insulting mensa darts at one another, trying to get fired up.


All American status may or may not translate...recent All Americans:

2017:
Orlando Brown Jr.* Offensive tackle Junior Oklahoma
Mike McGlinchey Offensive tackle Senior Notre Dame
Quenton Nelson* Offensive guard Senior Notre Dame
Cody O'Connell Offensive guard Senior Washington State
Billy Price* Center Senior Ohio State

2018:
Garrett Bradbury Center Senior NC State
Jonah Williams* Offensive Line Junior Alabama
Ben Powers Offensive Line Senior Oklahoma
Mitch Hyatt Offensive Line Senior Clemson
Beau Benzschawel Offensive Line Senior Wisconsin

2019:
https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2019-pff-all-american-team

2020:
Brady Christensen Offensive line Junior BYU
Wyatt Davis* Junior Ohio State
Liam Eichenberg Senior Notre Dame
Kenyon Green Sophomore Texas A&M
Alex Leatherwood* Senior Alabama

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 2401
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 10:22:50 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

A lot of ? marks in the trenches for this team.

Are Pierce and Tomlinson going to be good?

Are two rookie OL going to be any good?

Chances are 50/50 unless you have really thick purple goggles simliar to what KG wears

I specifically noted that Darrisaw and Davis were unknowns that our season will hinge upon. Tomlinson and Pierce are knowns that I expect to be good.


I specifically saw 1st and 2nd team all-american selections for our 2 selections on the oline.

When they're coming to the Pros an All American selection and $5.99 can get you a small cup of coffee at Starbucks. Point being All American doesn't mean much.
Don't by any means take this to mean that I don't expect them to be good, but at this time we can't really count on them being good. I'm hopeful.


Yes that is true but I saw the leadership skills of both mentioned and a Vikings skit of just general Vikings knowledge and Darrisaw especially is one smart guy...


What general Vikings knowledge was Darrisaw so smart at? History? Stats? Trivia? Selecting Ron Yary for $100? Reciting head coach rants?

I won't even ask the logical follow-on about relevance.

Darrisaw and Barr can stretch out before games throwing insulting mensa darts at one another, trying to get fired up.


All American status may or may not translate...recent All Americans:

2017:
Orlando Brown Jr.* Offensive tackle Junior Oklahoma
Mike McGlinchey Offensive tackle Senior Notre Dame
Quenton Nelson* Offensive guard Senior Notre Dame
Cody O'Connell Offensive guard Senior Washington State
Billy Price* Center Senior Ohio State

2018:
Garrett Bradbury Center Senior NC State
Jonah Williams* Offensive Line Junior Alabama
Ben Powers Offensive Line Senior Oklahoma
Mitch Hyatt Offensive Line Senior Clemson
Beau Benzschawel Offensive Line Senior Wisconsin

2019:
https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2019-pff-all-american-team

2020:
Brady Christensen Offensive line Junior BYU
Wyatt Davis* Junior Ohio State
Liam Eichenberg Senior Notre Dame
Kenyon Green Sophomore Texas A&M
Alex Leatherwood* Senior Alabama

Notice how the more highly regarded draft pick Christian Darrisaw was not an All American. Maybe 2nd team.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2402
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 11:45:09 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

As I understand it, Pierce is a wall but not a great pass rushing option. I thought I had read that Tomlinson had a solid pressure rate last year from the NT position. It might be better from 3T in 2021. I don't think he's 1 dimensional and will be an upgrade imo.

https://lwosports.com/2021/03/29/dalvin-tomlinson-brings-help-run-defense/


The article concludes, IMO rightly so, with: If Tomlinson can be a force in the passing game, his reps will likely increase on third downs and or passing situations. In New York, he was mainly sidelined when teams would spread the field with the threat of passing. Minnesota has gained a marque run-suffer, but the questions will loom on how effective Tomlinson will be in the passing game.

I liked the signing in terms of getting a player coming off his first contract with possibilities to improve next to Pierce. But my opinion was also jaded by opponents absolutely shredding us rushing up the middle. So it's like, ok we addressed that with these two bigs starting, now what else do you have Tomlinson.

As for Pierce, can he be a poor mans Jerry Ball/Pat Williams?


Don't know how it translates but he was the Ravens top Dlinemane in 2018; not sure how it will translate after taking a year off.

Top dlineman? at sock puppetry? says who? the baltimore newtimes food critic?

looking at their 2019 depth chart, not much competition for ‘best of’ trophies. Their LBs get all the production.

Pierce chokes off the middle, occupies, absorbs. He’s like a lead turtle ... hydrant kind of a thing.

Tomlinson is more of a masher, a dislocator, a disruptor.

We won’t get pushed around, thats for sure. And we’ll do some pushing. Not sure after that.

Kendricks will get his, that’s also for sure.

Interesting to me that Hunter Pierce Tomlinson would be a killer 3-4 dline and Barr a proto 3-4 lb.

Its a shame Zimmer only uses Barr to check the enemy. He’s an occupier, an outflanker. We should be sending him in to decapitate people. Maybe he’s too pleasant for that



Pro Foot Ball Focus:
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/michael-pierce/11101?season=2018
https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/michael-pierce/11101?season=2019

I'm not sure why but responding to your posts always feels like driving into a major highway spaghetti exchange.

Your PFF links show that you can't measure Pierce's performance based on standard all-american pro-bowl stats. So they're useless.

What we do know is, Pierce is supposed to just stand there and take it like a man. And by reputation, he does that well.

Does PFF have a Best 'Big Fat Tick' measurement, organized by how well squatty human trenchers get under the pads of OL and drain their will to execute blocking schemes? Probably not.
Post #: 2403
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 5:03:53 PM   
David F.


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Got Breeland after all.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 2404
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 5:51:41 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Got Breeland after all.

That's pretty slick.

Makes wonder what the expectation was last year for fielding a secondary.
Post #: 2405
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 5:56:46 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.
Post #: 2406
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 7:54:00 PM   
Pager


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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.




And close to 20 first/second year players (plus next years 10+)? Nice to not have to rush everyone into the starting lineup/let them develop.

Will be curious to see Breeland's contract and see if there's any guaranteed money.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 2407
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/4/2021 10:15:12 PM   
David F.


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Get hunter back into the fold and acquire one more WR that can play meaningful snaps and we’re set for 2021.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 2408
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 3:21:50 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Get hunter back into the fold and acquire one more WR that can play meaningful snaps and we’re set for 2021.



i hate to admit this, but hunter has lost me...i used to think he was something really special, as a player and as a person...what's happening this offseason makes me wonder about what was actually going on last offseason....

i wouldn't be terribly troubled if we traded him for a full bounty and signed justin houston cheap....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 2409
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 3:31:25 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.



i would still try to sign trai turner, larry fitzgerald, and justin houston cheap....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 2410
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 7:05:07 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.

With the cap returning to normal and then some (206 i believe) their won't be any bargain deals on vets or at least not many.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 2411
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 8:51:36 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.




And close to 20 first/second year players (plus next years 10+)? Nice to not have to rush everyone into the starting lineup/let them develop.

Will be curious to see Breeland's contract and see if there's any guaranteed money.

The regime is definitely all in for 2021. It feels like we’ve signed more starters or at least starter competition, than camp bodies this offseason ... its been a strange. we’ve gotten a lot out of our paltry cap.

It really must have stung Zimmer to learn that he couldn’t automatically coach up a decent defense without some players. That and having a backseat to the offense as a team identity.
Post #: 2412
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 8:58:38 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.



i would still try to sign trai turner, larry fitzgerald, and justin houston cheap....

Now you are just being ‘Seven’ greedy.
Post #: 2413
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 9:19:21 AM   
Todd M

 

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I thought Fitz would be automatic if and when the Cards were done with him. I know he's long in the tooth but if he has anything left it should be automatic.
Post #: 2414
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 9:22:49 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Get hunter back into the fold and acquire one more WR that can play meaningful snaps and we’re set for 2021.



i hate to admit this, but hunter has lost me...i used to think he was something really special, as a player and as a person...what's happening this offseason makes me wonder about what was actually going on last offseason....

i wouldn't be terribly troubled if we traded him for a full bounty and signed justin houston cheap....


Make no mistake, we need Hunter. He is integral to the success of the defense.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 2415
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 10:21:38 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Get hunter back into the fold and acquire one more WR that can play meaningful snaps and we’re set for 2021.



i hate to admit this, but hunter has lost me...i used to think he was something really special, as a player and as a person...what's happening this offseason makes me wonder about what was actually going on last offseason....

i wouldn't be terribly troubled if we traded him for a full bounty and signed justin houston cheap....


Make no mistake, we need Hunter. He is integral to the success of the defense.

Thing is we don't even know if he's still any good. Incentive based extension would be OK, but he has to perform to get any additional money.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2416
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 11:27:56 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.

With the cap returning to normal and then some (206 i believe) their won't be any bargain deals on vets or at least not many.


Here we go.

The cap is UNKNOWN at this point. It will not be set until FEBRUARY. Further, the cap FLOOR has NOT been set. All that is known is that the cap CEILING is $208.
Post #: 2417
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 11:29:19 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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So what do we know about Breeland?

Just from five minutes of searching, it seems he is kind of up and down. Success might depend on how he fits scheme wise, but it would SEEM to make sense the regime wouldn't sign him if they deemed him a poor fit.

We'll see what happens with Dantzler but hopefully he gets reps and they continue to develop him. Gladney is a ?

We could have Patterson, Breeland, and MacAlex as the starting corners. Wild.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 6/5/2021 11:37:11 AM >
Post #: 2418
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 11:47:16 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.



i would still try to sign trai turner, larry fitzgerald, and justin houston cheap....



You hit the areas we need to attend to.

Can't see BeebeBisi being the plan, nor counting on ISM.
Post #: 2419
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 11:52:54 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Get hunter back into the fold and acquire one more WR that can play meaningful snaps and we’re set for 2021.



i hate to admit this, but hunter has lost me...i use to think he was something really special, as a player and as a person...what's happening this offseason makes me wonder about what was actually going on last offseason....

i wouldn't be terribly troubled if we traded him for a full bounty and signed justin houston cheap....


Make no mistake, we need Hunter. He is integral to the success of the defense.


i know we'd be better with him on our team, but I believe that we've lost each other...it's probably our fault, he watched how we treated griffen and realized that he was too emotionally invested in a business/team that is cut-throat for players - get what you can because you'll get screwed at the end....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 2420
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 12:50:35 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

So what do we know about Breeland?

Just from five minutes of searching, it seems he is kind of up and down. Success might depend on how he fits scheme wise, but it would SEEM to make sense the regime wouldn't sign him if they deemed him a poor fit.

We'll see what happens with Dantzler but hopefully he gets reps and they continue to develop him. Gladney is a ?

We could have Patterson, Breeland, and MacAlex as the starting corners. Wild.

I know circumstances were what they were, Purge City.

But it sure seems to me that Zimmer vastly overestimated what he could do last year with the raw materials.

It's like Spielman reviewed the roster after the season, told Zimmer to wait in the car, while he and Brezinski started running around the supermarket frantically and indiscriminately tossing CBs into the basket.

I had it all wrong ... the cb splurge is not being pushed by Zimmer ... its being pushed on Zimmer.
Post #: 2421
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 1:21:17 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.



i would still try to sign trai turner, larry fitzgerald, and justin houston cheap....



You hit the areas we need to attend to.

Can't see BeebeBisi being the plan, nor counting on ISM.

Totally agree on this.
Post #: 2422
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 5:15:57 PM   
kevinemmer


Posts: 4659
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From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
We need Dede Westbrook and a solid vet Guard/Center
and we’d be remarkably well rounded from dismal end of last season.
Oh yeah, one more thing; a new HC.
Post #: 2423
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 6:55:26 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12178
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

What's the expectation for fielding a team in 2022?

Gadzooks we have a lot of short-timers.



i would still try to sign trai turner, larry fitzgerald, and justin houston cheap....



You hit the areas we need to attend to.

Can't see BeebeBisi being the plan, nor counting on ISM.

Totally agree on this.

Speilman and Brez. Get creative and trade for Julio.
Post #: 2424
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/5/2021 11:03:35 PM   
Todd M

 

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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Let's realize the team we have and how many 3 rec sets we run before we drool over a big 3rd receiver.

We're fine for 3/4/5 with what we have.
Post #: 2425
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