RE: Free Agency 2021

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: Free Agency 2021

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: Free Agency 2021

Page: << < prev 21 22 [23] 24 25 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:06:40 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 551

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:08:10 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Tell me how many of these guys you'd rather have than Cousins.

Upper-Tier Guys:
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Aaron Rodgers
Deshaun Watson
Russell Wilson

Dak Prescott has no business being in the upper tier and the rest of it just absurd. I put Cousins in the next tier after the elites. Most metrics for measuring QB performance outside of the Brad H eye test support that. In evaluating him against that tier, keep in mind that he operates behind the worst pass blocking of the bunch and hasn't had the same offensive coordinator two years in a row.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 552

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:12:18 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Tell me how many of these guys you'd rather have than Cousins.

Upper-Tier Guys:
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Aaron Rodgers
Deshaun Watson
Russell Wilson

Dak Prescott has no business being in the upper tier and the rest of it just absurd. I put Cousins in the next tier after the elites. Most metrics for measuring QB performance outside of the Brad H eye test support that. In evaluating him against that tier, keep in mind that he operates behind the worst pass blocking of the bunch and hasn't had the same offensive coordinator two years in a row.

Prescott would be at the bottom of that list for me. I could see him slipping into the next grouping. I've got no problems with that.

Mahomes, Watson and Wilson all operate behind bad offensive lines. That has little to do with it. Can they make plays when it matters? I'd take any of those guy 16 times a year over Cousins.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 553

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:13:44 PM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

I realize that FA just started, and that RS hates offensive linemen for some reason, but at the start of free agency I did not expect the Vikings offensive line depth chart to look like this:

(LT) Cleveland - Hill - Brandel
(LG) Hinton - Bailey
(C) Bradbury
(RG) Samia
(RT) O'Neill - Udoh

Perhaps the Vikings will be the first team to ever draft 10 offensive linemen in one draft?.....

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 554

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:14:02 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

After Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes (slam dunk they are all worth the money) I would take a $15 million dollar guy like Fitzpatrick or Mariotta and spend the rest on the surrounding cast.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 3/18/2021 12:18:05 PM >

Post #: 555

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:16:21 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 556

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:22:25 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Again, easy to say. How do you do it? I put down what happened in 2018 that is leading to 2021. Give us a scenario that works.

IMO the best scenario was SF trade and also draft a qb early this year.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 557

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:23:57 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Again, easy to say. How do you do it? I put down what happened in 2018 that is leading to 2021. Give us a scenario that works.

IMO the best scenario was SF trade and also draft a qb early this year.

Honestly, I don't know that there is a fix. I think we're pretty much screwed for at least another year.

I'd tell Cousins to take a pay cut or we are going to start Sean Mannion. If you can't beat out Mannion, you are on your last contract in the NFL in the eyes of GM's.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/18/2021 12:27:17 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 558

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:55:37 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Tell me how many of these guys you'd rather have than Cousins.

Upper-Tier Guys:
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Dak Prescott
Aaron Rodgers
Deshaun Watson
Russell Wilson

Dak Prescott has no business being in the upper tier and the rest of it just absurd. I put Cousins in the next tier after the elites. Most metrics for measuring QB performance outside of the Brad H eye test support that. In evaluating him against that tier, keep in mind that he operates behind the worst pass blocking of the bunch and hasn't had the same offensive coordinator two years in a row.

Prescott would be at the bottom of that list for me. I could see him slipping into the next grouping. I've got no problems with that.

Mahomes, Watson and Wilson all operate behind bad offensive lines. That has little to do with it. Can they make plays when it matters? I'd take any of those guy 16 times a year over Cousins.

And you would not do as well with most of them.

O-line and scheme has a lot to do with it. Mahomes is the only one that operates behind an epically bad line like Cousins. Mahomes is elite. Cousins is second tier. Like I said, if you are determined to ignore the metrics that measure QB performance and say 16 guys are easily better and that Cousins operates at the same tier as Mitch Trubisky, that's what your going to believe.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 559

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:59:34 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Funny thing is you were the only guy banging the Cousins drum before we got him.

Post #: 560

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 12:59:48 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

I haven't seen anyone post that the extension of Cousins was a good idea.

It's funny how Brad's argument changes to fit the narrative. Accounting is the only reason why you can list Wentz' salary as 15M, because all of the bonus stayed on the Eagles books when they traded him. He is a 30M QB.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 561

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:04:01 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Funny thing is you were the only guy banging the Cousins drum before we got him.

Funny thing is that Cousins was around the 8th highest average QB salary and was #8 in quarterback ranking last year. But, it's one of the 3 worst contracts in football. Again, if you want to ignore every metric used to evaluate QB you can say anyone is the most overpaid and mediocre at best.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 562

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:11:51 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Funny thing is you were the only guy banging the Cousins drum before we got him.

Funny thing is that Cousins was around the 8th highest average QB salary and was #8 in quarterback ranking last year. But, it's one of the 3 worst contracts in football. Again, if you want to ignore every metric used to evaluate QB you can say anyone is the most overpaid and mediocre at best.

#8 quarterback ranking means absolutely nothing to me. He's one of the worst two-minute quarterbacks I've ever seen, completely incapable of making plays when it matters. A lot of guys have put up decent numbers and never won a damned thing. Cousins doesn't have that "IT" factor a quarterback needs to win the big one. He's not a leader of men. You can't quantify that with stats. Only with big wins.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/18/2021 1:16:22 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 563

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:16:56 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Funny thing is you were the only guy banging the Cousins drum before we got him.

Funny thing is that Cousins was around the 8th highest average QB salary and was #8 in quarterback ranking last year. But, it's one of the 3 worst contracts in football. Again, if you want to ignore every metric used to evaluate QB you can say anyone is the most overpaid and mediocre at best.

#8 quarterback ranking means absolutely nothing to me. He's one of the worst two-minute quarterbacks I've ever seen, completely incapable of making plays when it matters. A lot of guys have put up decent numbers and never won a damned thing. Cousins doesn't have that "IT" factor a quarterback needs to win the big one. He's not a leader of men.

Once again, the Brad eye test trumps all facts. I'm out. You're going to see whatever you are determined to see and you clearly need glasses.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 564

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:21:27 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

As I see it, the three worst contracts in the NFL this coming season are Goff, Ryan and Cousins.

I think that is a valid stance to take.

None of those guys would be my starting quarterback if I was an NFL general manager. No chance, no how. Glaciers move faster.

Funny thing is you were the only guy banging the Cousins drum before we got him.

Funny thing is that Cousins was around the 8th highest average QB salary and was #8 in quarterback ranking last year. But, it's one of the 3 worst contracts in football. Again, if you want to ignore every metric used to evaluate QB you can say anyone is the most overpaid and mediocre at best.

#8 quarterback ranking means absolutely nothing to me. He's one of the worst two-minute quarterbacks I've ever seen, completely incapable of making plays when it matters. A lot of guys have put up decent numbers and never won a damned thing. Cousins doesn't have that "IT" factor a quarterback needs to win the big one. He's not a leader of men.

Once again, the Brad eye test trumps all facts. I'm out. You're going to see whatever you are determined to see and you clearly need glasses.

I find it interesting you equate offensive stats to facts (as it relates to being a great quarterback). I equate big wins to being a great quarterback. I'll take big wins over stats any day of the week, and I don't think there's many in here that wouldn't.

Fantasy football has breed a ton of guys like yourself over the past three decades. Back in the real world, stats mean absolutely nothing if you can't produce them when it matters.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/18/2021 1:23:23 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 565

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:27:32 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

Never play fantasy football and don't pay attention to fantasy football sites. Offensive stats are not perfect, but they are clearly a thousand times less subjective than your criteria. You see what you are determined to see.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 566

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:34:20 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

Cousins had a 63.7 passer rating in the final two minutes of halves this past season. Anybody think that's good? $33-million good?

Ranks somewhere between 30-35 in the league amongst guys that started at least a handful of games.

How is that for facts?

https://www.footballdb.com/statistics/nfl/player-splits/passing/last-two-minutes-half/2020?sort=passrate

56.2% completion %. 5 TD's, 7 INT's.

He just went down to a $10-million quarterback with that research.

The only guy in the league that threw more than 50 passes in the final two minutes that was worse was Drew Lock. FACTS!

So, when it mattered, he ranked 29th among quarterbacks that threw more than 50 passes in the final two minutes of halves. Roethlisberger threw 49, and he was much higher in the ratings. So, 30th!

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/18/2021 1:55:01 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 567

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:53:50 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

Giants sign Rudolph.

2 yrs. $16M

Post #: 568

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 1:58:07 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Giants sign Rudolph.

2 yrs. $16M

I thought he'd do better than that. Jonnu Smith got a ton of money.

Post #: 569

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 2:07:54 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Giants sign Rudolph.

2 yrs. $16M

I thought he'd do better than that. Jonnu Smith got a ton of money.

Jonnu is young and more athletic (probably a better blocker too). Rudolph has great hands--that might be it.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/18/2021 2:09:11 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 570

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 2:18:55 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Giants sign Rudolph.

2 yrs. $16M

I thought he'd do better than that. Jonnu Smith got a ton of money.

Jonnu is young and more athletic (probably a better blocker too). Rudolph has great hands--that might be it.

Good points. Rudy was never a real threat to break one.

Post #: 571

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 2:22:56 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Trent Williams and the San Francisco 49ers have reached a six-year, $138.06 million deal that will make him the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history, his agency announced Wednesday morning. The deal has $55.1 million in guaranteed money, Williams' agency Elite Loyalty Sports tweeted.

Culpepper once had that $100 million contract, including incentives such as leading the team in special teams tackles.

Post #: 572

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 2:40:25 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

Do NOT reach for any of the guards at #14. Either trade down quite a bit and get one or draft Kwity Paye. 6' 4", 272 lbs. Natural DE but played DT too. Fast and explosive, see the 1:26 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MJcoVKnTIg

Yes we need guards, just don't waste draft assets by drafting foolishly. Especially when you can bolster a premium position like DE.

Post #: 573

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 3:04:46 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

Positions where we lack a viable starter:

G - draft focus
DE - draft focus

G - possible mid-tier vet
S - vet min
3WR - can probably fill between Beebe, vet min, and later draft pick. Maybe a feel-good June 1st cut that pretends to be insurance.

Post #: 574

RE: Free Agency 2021 - 3/18/2021 3:23:05 PM

bstinger