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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 1:48:01 AM

Funkytown

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Joined: 5/29/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I seriously doubt Watson will be a Viking. Like 0% chance. We don't have "luxury" picks. We don't have cap space.

But we DO have bloated contracts.

And thank goodness. If we think Cousins is divisive, can you imagine?!?

It never really made sense regarding the roster/cost, cap space, nor "the culture" the Wilfs, KAM, and KOC have been preaching about.

I'm happy with the Cousins extension because A) it means we're still trying to be competitive and B) we're out on Watson.

Now let's see what the rest of the offseason brings!

Post #: 4676

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 2:40:01 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
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cousins' cap hits...we save $13.5mm this season -- still in the red -$1.6mm

'22…$31.5mm
'23…$36.25mm
'24....$12.5mm (void)
'25....$6.25mm (void)

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4677

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 2:48:03 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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.
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they'll get hunter's deal tweaked in a day or two and then work on some of the older guys....

i think that the wilfs think we can win now....

this is a kind of 'prove it' deal for cousins - if he can't win with o'connell, it's over, baby....

.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 3/14/2022 4:56:56 AM >

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4678

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 8:09:45 AM

The Happy Norseman

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Joined: 12/2/2016
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As disappointing as it is that we’re stuck with Cousins for two more years, the deal actually makes a lot of sense. First, it gives the team some cap relief this year. Second, O’Connell gets to see if he can do with Kirk what McVay did with Stafford, and third, O’Connell gets to see if Mond is the team’s QBOTF. 2022 is a bad year for QB’s. If Mond looks like he’s the future then great, he sits behind Cousins for 2 years then starts. If he’s not, the Vikings draft a qb in 2023, when the class is supposed to have some great prospects, that guy sits for a year then starts in 2024. Maybe by 2024 the rest of the team will be rebuilt and we’ll be a strong contender with a new winning QB under center.

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If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 4679

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 8:31:47 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
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our 2023 cap number is now $23mm under - it includes cousins, hunter, thielen, smith, cook, kendricks, and pierce....

if we cut these players after the 2022 season these are the cap savings:

thielen....$11mm
smith....$12mm
cook....$8mm
kendricks....$9.5mm
pierce....$9mm

our 2024 cap number is now $150mm under - it includes mond, thielen, smith, cook, our o-line boys - not jefferson....

.

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4680

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 8:33:56 AM

Tom Sykes

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Makes me wonder if we offered an even longer term deal, only to be rebuffed by his heavenly mandate. Maybe even a permanent deal …

‘Cousins has been signed through the End of Times …. with voidable years after to help the cap’

Post #: 4681

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 8:38:52 AM

Murph

Posts: 2026
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
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Kwesi is not an upgrade at GM. So disappointing.

Extend Cousins was the worst possible option. I'd rather have Zimmer and RS with a new QB than this.

We are not going the the Super Bowl in the next 2 years so I'll be watching Viking pre season Viking football for 2 seasons. Maybe we make the playoffs 1 out of the next 2 years with 7 teams making it.

Wake me up in 2024.

I can't remember ever being this down on the team.

< Message edited by Murph -- 3/14/2022 8:41:22 AM >

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 4682

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 8:41:44 AM

Bill Johanesen

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Notables from the current 2023 FA list include Mattison, Watts, DePaola, and maybe Udoh & Irv Smith.

Post #: 4683

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 8:48:50 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28543
Status: offline

What's their plan? The tear it down option is out. That in a way suggests they will keep the usual trade suspects.

Maybe the regime is concerned about their record. The prospect of a 3-14 first year was staring them in the face. They'd draft a QB but it's been shown that high first round QBs are a crap shoot.

Post #: 4684

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:00:02 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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.
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maybe o'connell can work a minor miracle with cousins and our offense is top five...could happen....

draft a wr and cb with our first two picks - maybe trade back #12 a little for another cb...two cb's, and a top wr....

we still draft a QB in 2023....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4685

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:03:13 AM

Bill Johanesen

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As theorized a while back, we'll sign at most 1-2 mid-level FAs and several low tier types. And we'll roll out Cousins for 2022.

And Spielman's goodbye advice to Kwesi has been found:

Kwesi,
Good luck with everything. Being the GM in Minny is a pretty cush job. The press are a bunch of lightweights, and the fans might boo a bit but once the season is over they get all excited about the offseason. Here is my main piece of advice, you'll like it since you are a numbers guy. Two words: Dead Cap. I learned about that little treasure several years too late, and only just started using it. Just overspend and have Brzez push that cap out... way out. You can always tell people that cap will likely go up, and they never make the connection that it goes up for all 32 teams. Like I said, it's cush here. Take care, and let me know if you want pointers about randomly trading up and down in the draft. The magic there is you must always say we wanted to bring in more good players. It puts the onus on the coaches!
Rick

Post #: 4686

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:09:10 AM

Todd M

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If we're anything less than solid playoff contenders the next 2 years I will be majorly disappointed.

I don't hate the move. I'll like it fine as long as it's not for nothing.

I think the new atmosphere, attention to detail, and new eyes on things will see us at 10 wins +. Being able to challenge GB for the division and getting deeper into the playoffs than 1 and done will be what these guys hang their hat on.

I'm not all in but this will be a similar but hopefully better than the team I was all in on last year. I'm guardedly optimistic.

Post #: 4687

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:12:46 AM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
maybe o'connell can work a minor miracle with cousins and our offense is top five...could happen....

draft a wr and cb with our first two picks - maybe trade back #12 a little for another cb...two cb's, and a top wr....

we still draft a QB in 2023....

The Cousins deal is disappointing but not surprising, and I can see why the team did it. If Kwesi upgrades the oline with at least one legit FA guard, and ideally a FA center, then I'm going to feel better about our new GM.

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Post #: 4688

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:15:58 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If we're anything less than solid playoff contenders the next 2 years I will be majorly disappointed.

I don't hate the move. I'll like it fine as long as it's not for nothing.

I think the new atmosphere, attention to detail, and new eyes on things will see us at 10 wins +. Being able to challenge GB for the division and getting deeper into the playoffs than 1 and done will be what these guys hang their hat on.

I'm not all in but this will be a similar but hopefully better than the team I was all in on last year. I'm guardedly optimistic.

I'm with you...i see it as zimmer lost us 3-4 games last season - and made the games agonizing to watch....

take the reins off of the offense, and bring the defense into the middle of the pack and we're there....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 4689

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:21:21 AM

geoffrey greitzer

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I do not like it. Lowering cap...great...

no trade clause burns me. Please have a plan.

Mediocrity is killing me. Fight like Vikings.

Post #: 4690

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:30:19 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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.
.
also, we get to see what o'connell can do with cousins over a couple of years, plus we can still draft a qb next year...and then there's mond....

the options were to have at least a couple of years of reload, and then hope we draft a guy that excels...or go all out for watson....

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Post #: 4691

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:40:40 AM

Murph

Posts: 2026
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/14/report-multiple-teams-expressed-interest-in-trading-for-kirk-cousins/

If we don't make a Super Bowl in 2 years everyone should get fired again, including the average QB.

Big mistake not trading him and letting another team overpay for him.

Again, we will not win a Super Bowl with Cousins, which is all I care about. I don't care about a playoff run. I want Super Bowl runs and Kirk isn't wired for it.

I really hope I'm wrong.

< Message edited by Murph -- 3/14/2022 9:42:00 AM >

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 4692

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:47:29 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

As disappointing as it is that we’re stuck with Cousins for two more years, the deal actually makes a lot of sense. First, it gives the team some cap relief this year. Second, O’Connell gets to see if he can do with Kirk what McVay did with Stafford, and third, O’Connell gets to see if Mond is the team’s QBOTF. 2022 is a bad year for QB’s. If Mond looks like he’s the future then great, he sits behind Cousins for 2 years then starts. If he’s not, the Vikings draft a qb in 2023, when the class is supposed to have some great prospects, that guy sits for a year then starts in 2024. Maybe by 2024 the rest of the team will be rebuilt and we’ll be a strong contender with a new winning QB under center.

Agree, thought the same after I calmed down. If we could've got something in a trade I would have went that way, but I see why they did this. A lot of things to fix a we're still over the cap, so they better makes some good moves or keeping Kirk will be all for naught.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

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Post #: 4693

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:51:30 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
maybe o'connell can work a minor miracle with cousins and our offense is top five...could happen....

draft a wr and cb with our first two picks - maybe trade back #12 a little for another cb...two cb's, and a top wr....

we still draft a QB in 2023....

If we keep Thielen a WR is not a priority for the first few rounds. CB's and DE's a C or G depending on we get in FA are the top priorities.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 4694

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:53:49 AM

Todd M

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How interested were the other teams. Them saying no to tire kicking with low ball offers incl how much of the contract they wanted us to eat doesn't bother me.

Post #: 4695

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 9:58:39 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/14/report-multiple-teams-expressed-interest-in-trading-for-kirk-cousins/

If we don't make a Super Bowl in 2 years everyone should get fired again, including the average QB.

Big mistake not trading him and letting another team overpay for him.

Again, we will not win a Super Bowl with Cousins, which is all I care about. I don't care about a playoff run. I want Super Bowl runs and Kirk isn't wired for it.

I really hope I'm wrong.

I'm sure other teams made the same call that we did for Watson ... so they could check off the 'due diligence' box.

Maybe see how amateur the new GM is ... We offered Rick two 7th rounders but he didn't go for it, we'll make it a 6th if you throw in 25M of his salary?

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 3/14/2022 10:01:20 AM >

Post #: 4696

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 10:04:06 AM 1 votes

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

Kwesi is not an upgrade at GM. So disappointing.

Extend Cousins was the worst possible option. I'd rather have Zimmer and RS with a new QB than this.

We are not going the the Super Bowl in the next 2 years so I'll be watching Viking pre season Viking football for 2 seasons. Maybe we make the playoffs 1 out of the next 2 years with 7 teams making it.

Wake me up in 2024.

I can't remember ever being this down on the team.

Bye

Post #: 4697

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 10:05:37 AM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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Kwesi-Kevin RosterTear-Down Plan (aka BFF agreement #1):

Sign Cousins to the most extremely long contract that his God will allow.

Add Irv Smith back into the offense. Draft defense.

GO!!!

Post #: 4698

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 10:07:07 AM

The Happy Norseman

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Joined: 12/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

As disappointing as it is that we’re stuck with Cousins for two more years, the deal actually makes a lot of sense. First, it gives the team some cap relief this year. Second, O’Connell gets to see if he can do with Kirk what McVay did with Stafford, and third, O’Connell gets to see if Mond is the team’s QBOTF. 2022 is a bad year for QB’s. If Mond looks like he’s the future then great, he sits behind Cousins for 2 years then starts. If he’s not, the Vikings draft a qb in 2023, when the class is supposed to have some great prospects, that guy sits for a year then starts in 2024. Maybe by 2024 the rest of the team will be rebuilt and we’ll be a strong contender with a new winning QB under center.

Agree, thought the same after I calmed down. If we could've got something in a trade I would have went that way, but I see why they did this. A lot of things to fix a we're still over the cap, so they better makes some good moves or keeping Kirk will be all for naught.

Lot's of wheeling and dealing to do. If Kwesi converts Hunter's roster bonus to a signing bonus, that saves the team $13mil this year. Dump Pierce and the team saves another $6.5mil. With Kirk's new deal those pretty obvious moves would put the team $18 mil below the cap. That seems like low hanging fruit. I think these next few days will give us a better sense of Kwesi's abilities than the Cousins deal.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 4699

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2022 10:11:06 AM

Daniel Lee Young

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Two more years of outstanding completion percentages, throws short of the sticks on third down, settle for field goals, not reading the field outside the designated first read zone, the rare throw deep, the even rarer throw on first down, or second and short, the throw away on third down or fourth down when game is on the line, because god forbid a contested throw or interception.

No audibles out of bad plays.. running on first and ten into the teeth of a run blitz, the pocket awareness and mobility of a sloth on tranquilizers, missing wide open receivers.. by a few feet or just off the fingertips..the games that risk a stroke or heart attack, instead of being able to sit back and watch a defense choke out an inferior opponent and the offense pile on points like ‘98..

KOC better be the reincarnation of Denny Green, with better results, or we start over again in 2027, when, hopefully, I’m Fn 70 years old and still have some hope left.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 3/14/2022 10:16:29 AM >

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**** you all.

Post #: 4700