quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sean Borman
@SeanBormanNFL
·
11m
A look at Adam Thielen’s reworked contract and the net cap hit impact compared to his old deal, per OTC:

2022: $11.668M (saves $5.16M)
2023: $19.967M (higher by $2.01M)
2024: $21.655M (higher by $3.15M)
2025: $2.25M (void)

Dead Money and Cap savings
2023: 13.5/6.4
2024: 7/14.6
2025: 2.25/0

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sean Borman
@SeanBormanNFL
·
11m
A look at Adam Thielen’s reworked contract and the net cap hit impact compared to his old deal, per OTC:

2022: $11.668M (saves $5.16M)
2023: $19.967M (higher by $2.01M)
2024: $21.655M (higher by $3.15M)
2025: $2.25M (void)

Dead Money and Cap savings
2023: 13.5/6.4
2024: 7/14.6
2025: 2.25/0

so, if we flat out cut thielen the 2022 cap saving would have been about $6m, and we would no longer have a contract with him....


we are down to $4.5mm in cap space in 2023....

in 2023 we can cut these players and save:

Bradbury $13.2mm
o'neill $7mm
thielen $6.4mm
harrison smith $7.5mm
z-smith $10.8mm
cook $7.9mm
kendricks $9.7mm
hicks $5mm
cj ham $3mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We won't know the dead cap after 2023 until players are actually not on the roster, but I presume it could be around $20-30 million. Hope that timeframe isn't in our designated 'SB window' years cause 20 million could help.

Oh wait, Kwesi can just get Brzez to add more voidable years to any contract and create more dead cap! Then Mark Wilf can repeat how strategic we were! Those geniuses! Silly me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sean Borman
@SeanBormanNFL
·
11m
A look at Adam Thielen’s reworked contract and the net cap hit impact compared to his old deal, per OTC:

2022: $11.668M (saves $5.16M)
2023: $19.967M (higher by $2.01M)
2024: $21.655M (higher by $3.15M)
2025: $2.25M (void)

Dead Money and Cap savings
2023: 13.5/6.4
2024: 7/14.6
2025: 2.25/0

so, if we flat out cut thielen the 2022 cap saving would have been about $6m, and we would no longer have a contract with him....


we are down to $4.5mm in cap space in 2023....

in 2023 we can cut these players and save:

Bradbury $13.2mm
o'neill $7mm
thielen $6.4mm
harrison smith $7.5mm
z-smith $10.8mm
cook $7.9mm
kendricks $9.7mm
hicks $5mm
cj ham $3mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We won't know the dead cap after 2023 until players are actually not on the roster, but I presume it could be around $20-30 million. Hope that timeframe isn't in our designated 'SB window' years cause 20 million could help.

Oh wait, Kwesi can just get Brzez to add more voidable years to any contract and create more dead cap! Then Mark Wilf can repeat how strategic we were! Those geniuses! Silly me.

I keep thinking we should have tore it all down and cleared the deck. We would be the only team not maxing our credit cards and making balance transfers to clear a bit of room to make our minimum payments. I believe that would have set us up for a chance at major success. The experts would look back at what we did and say we were the innovators that weren't afraid to go against the grain and it paid off. But then again, 9-8 and 10-7 are technically winning seasons so we've got that to look forward to for at least one season. Ugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sean Borman
@SeanBormanNFL
·
11m
A look at Adam Thielen’s reworked contract and the net cap hit impact compared to his old deal, per OTC:

2022: $11.668M (saves $5.16M)
2023: $19.967M (higher by $2.01M)
2024: $21.655M (higher by $3.15M)
2025: $2.25M (void)

Dead Money and Cap savings
2023: 13.5/6.4
2024: 7/14.6
2025: 2.25/0

so, if we flat out cut thielen the 2022 cap saving would have been about $6m, and we would no longer have a contract with him....


we are down to $4.5mm in cap space in 2023....

in 2023 we can cut these players and save:

Bradbury $13.2mm
o'neill $7mm
thielen $6.4mm
harrison smith $7.5mm
z-smith $10.8mm
cook $7.9mm
kendricks $9.7mm
hicks $5mm
cj ham $3mm

Why make the difficult decision and cut them when we can simply "restructure" some more.

Anyway, cutting those players would be a wholesale rebuild... you even have O'Neill on that list.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We won't know the dead cap after 2023 until players are actually not on the roster, but I presume it could be around $20-30 million. Hope that timeframe isn't in our designated 'SB window' years cause 20 million could help.

Oh wait, Kwesi can just get Brzez to add more voidable years to any contract and create more dead cap! Then Mark Wilf can repeat how strategic we were! Those geniuses! Silly me.

I keep thinking we should have tore it all down and cleared the deck. We would be the only team not maxing our credit cards and making balance transfers to clear a bit of room to make our minimum payments. I believe that would have set us up for a chance at major success. The experts would look back at what we did and say we were the innovators that weren't afraid to go against the grain and it paid off. But then again, 9-8 and 10-7 are technically winning seasons so we've got that to look forward to for at least one season. Ugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sean Borman
@SeanBormanNFL
·
11m
A look at Adam Thielen’s reworked contract and the net cap hit impact compared to his old deal, per OTC:

2022: $11.668M (saves $5.16M)
2023: $19.967M (higher by $2.01M)
2024: $21.655M (higher by $3.15M)
2025: $2.25M (void)

Dead Money and Cap savings
2023: 13.5/6.4
2024: 7/14.6
2025: 2.25/0

so, if we flat out cut thielen the 2022 cap saving would have been about $6m, and we would no longer have a contract with him....


we are down to $4.5mm in cap space in 2023....

in 2023 we can cut these players and save:

Bradbury $13.2mm
o'neill $7mm
thielen $6.4mm
harrison smith $7.5mm
z-smith $10.8mm
cook $7.9mm
kendricks $9.7mm
hicks $5mm
cj ham $3mm

The average dead cap seems to be in the 15-18M range. We are above that but we sit with the 13th most cap room right now.

Next year we will be at a minimum of 17.7 cap space(bottom 10). We have 36 players signed. That is Top 10 for players signed for 2023.

Are we in dire straits? No. But, I think it shows that we need to hit on a QB this draft if we want to be in great shape(cap wise) in the near future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

We won't know the dead cap after 2023 until players are actually not on the roster, but I presume it could be around $20-30 million. Hope that timeframe isn't in our designated 'SB window' years cause 20 million could help.

Oh wait, Kwesi can just get Brzez to add more voidable years to any contract and create more dead cap! Then Mark Wilf can repeat how strategic we were! Those geniuses! Silly me.

I keep thinking we should have tore it all down and cleared the deck. We would be the only team not maxing our credit cards and making balance transfers to clear a bit of room to make our minimum payments. I believe that would have set us up for a chance at major success. The experts would look back at what we did and say we were the innovators that weren't afraid to go against the grain and it paid off. But then again, 9-8 and 10-7 are technically winning seasons so we've got that to look forward to for at least one season. Ugh.

I was all for the tear it down mode. I hope they are as smart as they think they are running it all back, but I doubt it. The Wilf's mandated this course of action I'm sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sean Borman
@SeanBormanNFL
·
11m
A look at Adam Thielen’s reworked contract and the net cap hit impact compared to his old deal, per OTC:

2022: $11.668M (saves $5.16M)
2023: $19.967M (higher by $2.01M)
2024: $21.655M (higher by $3.15M)
2025: $2.25M (void)

Dead Money and Cap savings
2023: 13.5/6.4
2024: 7/14.6
2025: 2.25/0

so, if we flat out cut thielen the 2022 cap saving would have been about $6m, and we would no longer have a contract with him....


we are down to $4.5mm in cap space in 2023....

in 2023 we can cut these players and save:

Bradbury $13.2mm
o'neill $7mm
thielen $6.4mm
harrison smith $7.5mm
z-smith $10.8mm
cook $7.9mm
kendricks $9.7mm
hicks $5mm
cj ham $3mm

The average dead cap seems to be in the 15-18M range. We are above that but we sit with the 13th most cap room right now.

Next year we will be at a minimum of 17.7 cap space(bottom 10). We have 36 players signed. That is Top 10 for players signed for 2023.

Are we in dire straits? No. But, I think it shows that we need to hit on a QB this draft if we want to be in great shape(cap wise) in the near future.

What will you think if they don't address, let alone hit on, a QB in this draft?

Further, what if the additions and holdovers are enough to keep us at, say, #15 in next year's draft out of reach of the supposed top QBs?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We didn’t upgrade Slot Cb? We didn’t upgrade with Hicks over Barr? I see upgrades on the interior oline? Zed isn’t an Upgrade?

I see at least 4 positions are improved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We didn’t upgrade Slot Cb? We didn’t upgrade with Hicks over Barr? I see upgrades on the interior oline? Zed isn’t an Upgrade?

I see at least 4 positions are improved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We didn’t upgrade Slot Cb? We didn’t upgrade with Hicks over Barr? I see upgrades on the interior oline? Zed isn’t an Upgrade?

I see at least 4 positions are improved.

Not to mention Hunter coming back. The Vikings currently have no holes on the defense, assuming Lynch, Watts, Twyman, or someone can man the 3-4 DE position that is still open. That doesn't mean everyone is good or that improvements can't/won't be made, but there are no more gaping chasms like we have at center on offense. So the offense is basically the same with a better scheme/philosophy and hopefully better coaching, and the defense is improved or at least the same everywhere except maybe safety.

"Competitive rebuild" is driving many crazy, but it seems the Wilfs want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs, which a worse team accomplished last year. I think the contracts and teambuilding is pointing at an inflection point in 2024, when there should be sufficient cap room along with turnover of personnel the next two years to give a opportunity to make a big leap. Obviously a QBOTF is a huge part of it, but Kwesi has positioned the next two years to satisfy the Wilfs and the year after that to make moves to raise a quantum or two.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We didn’t upgrade Slot Cb? We didn’t upgrade with Hicks over Barr? I see upgrades on the interior oline? Zed isn’t an Upgrade?

I see at least 4 positions are improved.

Not to mention Hunter coming back. The Vikings currently have no holes on the defense, assuming Lynch, Watts, Twyman, or someone can man the 3-4 DE position that is still open. That doesn't mean everyone is good or that improvements can't/won't be made, but there are no more gaping chasms like we have at center on offense. So the offense is basically the same with a better scheme/philosophy and hopefully better coaching, and the defense is improved or at least the same everywhere except maybe safety.

"Competitive rebuild" is driving many crazy, but it seems the Wilfs want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs, which a worse team accomplished last year. I think the contracts and teambuilding is pointing at an inflection point in 2024, when there should be sufficient cap room along with turnover of personnel the next two years to give a opportunity to make a big leap. Obviously a QBOTF is a huge part of it, but Kwesi has positioned the next two years to satisfy the Wilfs and the year after that to make moves to raise a quantum or two.

We had no business being in the playoffs last year. In no shape or form should last year be our baseline for challenging anything except new regime change.

No holes on defense? Hunter and Zad will make a real difference on our DL ... I still don't see much difference at DT, LB, CB, S over last years abysmal defense so we'll see how much of a difference.

I'm looking forward to the draft and the rest of the offseason. At the very least I hope we get one starter out of the draft and we make a few more solid value additions like Hicks. At CB, IOL, TE, for sure.

We shall see.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We didn’t upgrade Slot Cb? We didn’t upgrade with Hicks over Barr? I see upgrades on the interior oline? Zed isn’t an Upgrade?

I see at least 4 positions are improved.

Not to mention Hunter coming back. The Vikings currently have no holes on the defense, assuming Lynch, Watts, Twyman, or someone can man the 3-4 DE position that is still open. That doesn't mean everyone is good or that improvements can't/won't be made, but there are no more gaping chasms like we have at center on offense. So the offense is basically the same with a better scheme/philosophy and hopefully better coaching, and the defense is improved or at least the same everywhere except maybe safety.

"Competitive rebuild" is driving many crazy, but it seems the Wilfs want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs, which a worse team accomplished last year. I think the contracts and teambuilding is pointing at an inflection point in 2024, when there should be sufficient cap room along with turnover of personnel the next two years to give a opportunity to make a big leap. Obviously a QBOTF is a huge part of it, but Kwesi has positioned the next two years to satisfy the Wilfs and the year after that to make moves to raise a quantum or two.

We had no business being in the playoffs last year. In no shape or form should last year be our baseline for challenging anything except new regime change.

No holes on defense? Hunter and Zad will make a real difference on our DL ... I still don't see much difference at DT, LB, CB, S over last years abysmal defense so we'll see how much of a difference.

I'm looking forward to the draft and the rest of the offseason. At the very least I hope we get one starter out of the draft and we make a few more solid value additions like Hicks. At CB, IOL, TE, for sure.

We shall see.

Think front seven vs DL/LB. Think availability as a significant factor in quality of play. PP and new slot are at least as good as last year, and Dantzler is better than Breland. All could be improved upon for sure, but none is a hole. Bynum may or may not be as good as Woods, but there's also a decent chance he's better in his second year; he looked pretty good last year when called upon. Hicks, Kendricks, Hunter, and Smith are a formidable LB group in 3-4; potentially much closer to great than good. Harrison more available than Pierce, and as good. Tomlinson is solid. 3-4 DE is an easy position to fill for 15-20 snaps per game. On passing downs, Hunter and Smith move up to DE, one DL goes out/more are switched out, and the new slot comes in, who has graded out better than Alexander.

If you don't see how that is improved, you're not looking, or you don't want to see it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

We didn’t upgrade Slot Cb? We didn’t upgrade with Hicks over Barr? I see upgrades on the interior oline? Zed isn’t an Upgrade?

I see at least 4 positions are improved.

Not to mention Hunter coming back. The Vikings currently have no holes on the defense, assuming Lynch, Watts, Twyman, or someone can man the 3-4 DE position that is still open. That doesn't mean everyone is good or that improvements can't/won't be made, but there are no more gaping chasms like we have at center on offense. So the offense is basically the same with a better scheme/philosophy and hopefully better coaching, and the defense is improved or at least the same everywhere except maybe safety.

"Competitive rebuild" is driving many crazy, but it seems the Wilfs want to stay in the hunt for the playoffs, which a worse team accomplished last year. I think the contracts and teambuilding is pointing at an inflection point in 2024, when there should be sufficient cap room along with turnover of personnel the next two years to give a opportunity to make a big leap. Obviously a QBOTF is a huge part of it, but Kwesi has positioned the next two years to satisfy the Wilfs and the year after that to make moves to raise a quantum or two.