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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 10:51:38 AM   
beo

 

Posts: 2363
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.


Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
5m
Vikings fans won’t recognize the offense this year
Quote Tweet
Derrik Klassen
@QBKlass
· 1h
tidbit from the Vikings chapter I'm working on:

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.
Show this thread


Am I getting this stat?
Does it mean outside of Kirk/Mac... QBs only threw 2ish NON PLAY ACTION passes a game on average?
Could that be right?
Post #: 5101
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 11:07:21 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline 		I found this scouting report of Brian on YouTube. This guy is IMO very knowledgeable and he loves Brian. The first thing that stands out to me is that Brian looks tiny as a LB. The second thing that stands out is he is really fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltB-lt1h7sU

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 5102
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 11:08:02 AM   
GopherFan34

 

Posts: 537
Joined: 4/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.


Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
5m
Vikings fans won’t recognize the offense this year
Quote Tweet
Derrik Klassen
@QBKlass
· 1h
tidbit from the Vikings chapter I'm working on:

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.
Show this thread


Am I getting this stat?
Does it mean outside of Kirk/Mac... QBs only threw 2ish NON PLAY ACTION passes a game on average?
Could that be right?


Most teams throw from the shot gun formation right?
Post #: 5103
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 11:09:44 AM   
GopherFan34

 

Posts: 537
Joined: 4/25/2009
Status: offline 		A lot of college teams never put their QB under center.
Post #: 5104
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 11:55:49 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.


Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
5m
Vikings fans won’t recognize the offense this year
Quote Tweet
Derrik Klassen
@QBKlass
· 1h
tidbit from the Vikings chapter I'm working on:

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.
Show this thread


Am I getting this stat?
Does it mean outside of Kirk/Mac... QBs only threw 2ish NON PLAY ACTION passes a game on average?
Could that be right?

From under center.
Post #: 5105
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 1:46:41 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline 		Chris Simms and I think the other guy is Mike Florio (help me out if I'm wrong) Discussing the Richard Sherman interview with Lewis Cine. The Bucs promised to draft Lewis Cine at 27 and didn't keep that promise. The Vikings seemed to know that the Bucs would have taken him at 33 so declined the Pukers offer for 32. This Kwesi guy might be pretty smart after all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wdaPvdG6V0

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 5106
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 1:48:29 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.


Paul Charchian
@PaulCharchian
·
5m
Vikings fans won’t recognize the offense this year
Quote Tweet
Derrik Klassen
@QBKlass
· 1h
tidbit from the Vikings chapter I'm working on:

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.
Show this thread


Am I getting this stat?
Does it mean outside of Kirk/Mac... QBs only threw 2ish NON PLAY ACTION passes a game on average?
Could that be right?

From under center.



yes, but i think that just lining up under center is the first action of the 'play fake', that is play-action....

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5107
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 2:01:49 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Seeing a lot of hints that Cook will be used more in the pass game this year. After seeing him go out as a receiver (highlights) when at FSU it does make sense.

Maybe there will be more formations of 2 RB w/o Ham? You start mixing and matching the speed the team has in the backfield of Kene, Chandler, and of course Cook and things could be quite fun.



a couple of years ago, i ran into a tweet cj ham's wife wrote encouraging people to vote for ham as a pro bowl player...i was touched, and so for the first time in my life, i voted for an NFL player to make the pro bowl....

that said, we can save $2m in '22, and $3m in '23 by cutting ham this season...it would help sign a tretter or hicks or richardson, and right now, i'd vote for that....

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Post #: 5108
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 2:53:54 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 13951
Status: offline 		I was never a fan of the power I formation…

During the past decade or longer, nothing screamed “here comes a hand off “ more than that under center snap to the Qb, with a fullback and halfback stack, Wr, slot receiver and TE alignment.

Get the F out of that dinosaur offensive set!!

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**** you all.
Post #: 5109
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 3:10:55 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...
Post #: 5110
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 4:28:06 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 5111
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 4:43:49 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline 		.
.
i was just looking at an unofficial depth chart of our defense...virtually all of the outside linebackers seem to be ex-defensive ends, not converted lb edge rusher types...and then there are inside linebackers and what i would call interior d-linemen, but more types than I'm used to....

players listed as 'left defensive end' that were defensive tackles before, and then there are nose tackles and just defensive tackles listed...it looks like we could keep 10+ d-linemen on the 53-man roster....

as a general observation, it seems that we're going to have to carry more 'defensive linemen' than usual because there are more specialists...i might be wrong, but it seems that these players aren't great special team players either....

true linebackers, we'll only carry about four, or five at the most...i.e. kendricks, hicks, lynch, asamoah - maybe one other - we recently added udfa william kwenkeu who looks like a hicks type of physical linebacker...players like dye and surratt i think get cut because they're not physical, or edge rusher types....

i wonder if o'connell makes some early cuts/changes to the roster for better 'player fits' for the new defensive system...we have carryovers from last year's roster that don't have an obvious role with the present vikings' system....

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5112
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 4:52:16 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play while lining up under center....





.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 5/20/2022 4:55:52 PM >

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5113
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 4:56:23 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play....

and that may be why when he does a play action play he is more successful than average. Opponents can't just assume it's a fake.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 5114
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 5:00:22 PM   
marty


Posts: 13041
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online 		Cook as a WR often, if healthy, he can become the Vikings' Deebo.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5115
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 5:02:59 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I was never a fan of the power I formation…

During the past decade or longer, nothing screamed “here comes a hand off “ more than that under center snap to the Qb, with a fullback and halfback stack, Wr, slot receiver and TE alignment.

Get the F out of that dinosaur offensive set!!



with a spread offense, the rb has more options if the original gap isn't there - he could even make a yard or two while being tackled...how we expected cook to run through a wall of human mass 7' thick is beyond me....

i hope this changes with o'connell...it should....

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5116
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 5:13:18 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play....

and that may be why when he does a play action play he is more successful than average. Opponents can't just assume it's a fake.


all things being equal, i think under center play action is a good thing, but with today's pass-happy offenses quarterbacks are much more comfortable in shotgun....

cousins is a good under-center-play-action quarterback...i think that o'connell uses that, but with more 11 personnel packages...at least i hope he does....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5117
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 8:14:27 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Seeing a lot of hints that Cook will be used more in the pass game this year. After seeing him go out as a receiver (highlights) when at FSU it does make sense.

Maybe there will be more formations of 2 RB w/o Ham? You start mixing and matching the speed the team has in the backfield of Kene, Chandler, and of course Cook and things could be quite fun.

Speed kills, especially when you can create mismatches. That is the name of the game. Get a big guy against a little guy or a fast guy against a slow guy and exploit it. Zimmer and company never really caught on to that. I'm sure these guys know it well.

_____________________________

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--twinsfan
Post #: 5118
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 10:29:13 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play....

and that may be why when he does a play action play he is more successful than average. Opponents can't just assume it's a fake.


all things being equal, i think under center play action is a good thing, but with today's pass-happy offenses quarterbacks are much more comfortable in shotgun....

cousins is a good under-center-play-action quarterback...i think that o'connell uses that, but with more 11 personnel packages...at least i hope he does....

My understanding is we will going more 2 back 1 TE than 1 back 2 TE formations.
Post #: 5119
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2022 10:32:51 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		What I've heard is more 1 back, 1 TE, 3 WR.

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"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 5120
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2022 3:04:13 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play....

and that may be why when he does a play action play he is more successful than average. Opponents can't just assume it's a fake.


all things being equal, i think under center play action is a good thing, but with today's pass-happy offenses quarterbacks are much more comfortable in shotgun....

cousins is a good under-center-play-action quarterback...i think that o'connell uses that, but with more 11 personnel packages...at least i hope he does....

My understanding is we will going more 2 back 1 TE than 1 back 2 TE formations.



that would be 2wr's...for now, we've kept ham, but i think that o'connell is planning to open things up more than we have in the past....

3wr's, 1te, and 1rb....

i have not heard him say anything about it, but considering the rams as a model, i think that most looks will be 11Personnel....

i'd rather spend fullback money on something else...like a center or d-line....

in ota's so far it's been cleveland -- bradbury -- reed/davis (not wyatt)

as i mentioned upstream, there are some players on the roster now that i don't think translate to the systems we're planning on using, but what do i know?....

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5121
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2022 11:51:01 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play....

and that may be why when he does a play action play he is more successful than average. Opponents can't just assume it's a fake.


all things being equal, i think under center play action is a good thing, but with today's pass-happy offenses quarterbacks are much more comfortable in shotgun....

cousins is a good under-center-play-action quarterback...i think that o'connell uses that, but with more 11 personnel packages...at least i hope he does....

My understanding is we will going more 2 back 1 TE than 1 back 2 TE formations.



that would be 2wr's...for now, we've kept ham, but i think that o'connell is planning to open things up more than we have in the past....



Nope, what I read was that we won't be running many 2 TE formations, instead a similar formation would substitute FB for 2nd TE. More options out of the backfield?
Post #: 5122
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2022 11:54:01 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

What I've heard is more 1 back, 1 TE, 3 WR.


It may be 1 back, 1 TE, 3 WR > 2 back, 1 TE, 2 WR > 1 back, 2 TE, 2 WR
Post #: 5123
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2022 12:28:22 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5871
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kirk Cousins registered 93 pass plays from under center w/o play-action last year. Mac Jones was next at 55, and no other player had more than 36.

I'm waiting for the social media intelligence community to break this down and tell us exactly what it all really means ...

It's an average of 5 plays per game where he lines up under center and it isn't a fake run. Mac Jones did it about 3 times a game and nobody else more than 2. If Cousins was under center 20 times a game the D should know 3 out of four times it is going to be a fake run that ends up a pass. If Mac lined up under center 20 times 6 times out of 7 those would be a fake run that turns out to be a pass. Etc........


there is really no information in the numbers provided about 'actual running' plays...just that cousins, more than others, forgoes the physical acts required to fulfill what is considered a play-action play....

and that may be why when he does a play action play he is more successful than average. Opponents can't just assume it's a fake.


all things being equal, i think under center play action is a good thing, but with today's pass-happy offenses quarterbacks are much more comfortable in shotgun....

cousins is a good under-center-play-action quarterback...i think that o'connell uses that, but with more 11 personnel packages...at least i hope he does....

My understanding is we will going more 2 back 1 TE than 1 back 2 TE formations.



that would be 2wr's...for now, we've kept ham, but i think that o'connell is planning to open things up more than we have in the past....



Nope, what I read was that we won't be running many 2 TE formations, instead a similar formation would substitute FB for 2nd TE. More options out of the backfield?

Good idea, with only one TE on the roster. (33 RECs his first two seasons and didn't play last year)

Any combination of RB + WR + FB + other > 2 TE + anything.
Post #: 5124
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2022 12:44:03 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9550
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

What I've heard is more 1 back, 1 TE, 3 WR.


It may be 1 back, 1 TE, 3 WR > 2 back, 1 TE, 2 WR > 1 back, 2 TE, 2 WR



11 personnel means 1 te, and 1 rb - which would mean 3 wr's...this is what i expect a lot of....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5125
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