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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 9:10:44 AM   
Lars


Posts: 11407
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline 		Too much talent to be wasted with has-been players and coaches.

I would fire Zimmer after the game Thursday, fire Spielman now, and let the new coach and GM clean house.

That was an embarrassment. Dude is a defensive guru?!?! No. What a ****ing joke.

The PIT game is gonna be SF 2.0. They will run for 200+ yards on MN.

_____________________________

<this space for rent>
Post #: 1551
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 9:20:59 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		I would prefer Speilman not draft the next QB.

“Ponder is the most NFL ready QB in draft”
Post #: 1552
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 9:22:50 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40145
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online 		If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.
Post #: 1553
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 9:50:58 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10842
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.


One day things will change.
When? When will they change?
- Probably when you least expect it.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 1554
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 9:57:27 AM   
Karl Juhnke


Posts: 12883
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online 		Wouldn’t be surprised if Spielman starts quietly lobbying behind the scenes to dump Zimmer in order to protect his own job. “It’s a talented bunch of guys Ziggy they’re just being mishandled and held back from achieving all they can.”

Then it’s just a matter of whether the Wilfs believe him or not. I’d say it’s 90% Zimmer is gone at end of season and possibly as soon as Friday. Maybe 50/50 that Spielman is gone with him.
Post #: 1555
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 10:19:19 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online 		Judging NFL Week 13 overreactions: Another MVP for Tom Brady? Could Mike Zimmer be fired soon?

Mike Zimmer is in his final weeks as Vikings coach
Minnesota's up-and-down season hit a new low Sunday, as Zimmer's Vikings became the first team this season to lose to the Lions. The game was loaded with questionable decisions. Zimmer's defense was way too lenient with the Lions even before allowing a 14-play, game-winning drive in the final 1:50.

The 5-7 Vikings are only a couple of weeks removed from an impressive victory over the Packers, and they've had some painful near misses this season, but there's no excusing this latest loss, and questions about whether Zimmer is on the hot seat as his eighth season in Minnesota enters its final stretch are certainly warranted.

The verdict: NOT AN OVERREACTION. To be clear: I am not saying Zimmer is going to be fired, either now or after the season. The NFC playoff race is a jumble, and the Vikings could potentially be a couple of good weeks away from being right back in the picture. It's too soon to know for sure what the team will do once the season ends.

But it's certainly realistic to think they would make a change. With quarterback Kirk Cousins entering the final year of his contract, it's possible there could be a lot of changes in Minnesota. Sunday's loss to the Lions was a microcosm of a season that tilts toward disappointing, and if the Vikings don't finish with a flourish, it's entirely possible the Zimmer era could end.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/32798158/judging-nfl-week-13-overreactions-another-mvp-tom-brady-mike-zimmer-fired-soon
Post #: 1556
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 10:50:51 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5819
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.


One day things will change.
When? When will they change?
- Probably when you least expect it.

So .. this year huh?
Post #: 1557
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 11:31:27 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10842
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.


One day things will change.
When? When will they change?
- Probably when you least expect it.

So .. this year huh?


Just need to find that last golden ticket.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 1558
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 1:03:41 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Wouldn’t be surprised if Spielman starts quietly lobbying behind the scenes to dump Zimmer in order to protect his own job. “It’s a talented bunch of guys Ziggy they’re just being mishandled and held back from achieving all they can.”

Then it’s just a matter of whether the Wilfs believe him or not. I’d say it’s 90% Zimmer is gone at end of season and possibly as soon as Friday. Maybe 50/50 that Spielman is gone with him.

I think Speilman is a pretty stand up guy. Doubt he would go this route.

Time for Wilfs to cut the cord. Speilman will easily find another job(scout or whatever) and Zimmer should probably start doing the Capers or Guenther thing(or just retire).
Post #: 1559
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 1:21:57 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Wouldn’t be surprised if Spielman starts quietly lobbying behind the scenes to dump Zimmer in order to protect his own job. “It’s a talented bunch of guys Ziggy they’re just being mishandled and held back from achieving all they can.”

Then it’s just a matter of whether the Wilfs believe him or not. I’d say it’s 90% Zimmer is gone at end of season and possibly as soon as Friday. Maybe 50/50 that Spielman is gone with him.

I think Speilman is a pretty stand up guy. Doubt he would go this route.

Time for Wilfs to cut the cord. Speilman will easily find another job(scout or whatever) and Zimmer should probably start doing the Capers or Guenther thing(or just retire).


If the Lions start over, he might be first in line for that job. From last December:

Saying "it's really good to be home," former Detroit Lions All-Pro linebacker Chris Spielman left the broadcast booth Tuesday and joined the franchise as a special assistant to owner Sheila Ford Hamp and team president Rod Wood in a move that gives the team a familiar face atop the organization.

Spielman, who had been working for FOX as a color analyst, will report to Wood and will serve as an adviser to both him and Hamp while working with both the business and football sides of the franchise.

He will be involved in every interview for the team's vacant general manager and head coaching positions, although Wood said those hired ultimately will not report to Spielman.
Post #: 1560
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 1:29:41 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9419
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline 		.
.
why would he change(?), at least not until he breaks his own record....


Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
The Vikings 2 minute defense is closing in on historic lows w/ an NFL worst in points allowed in final 2 mins of any half w/ 101.

The most points allowed in the final 2 minutes of a half in the last 20 seasons is 107 – a record set by Minnesota in 2020.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1561
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 2:10:34 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10842
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 1562
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 2:40:40 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.
Post #: 1563
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 2:42:22 PM  1 votes
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online 		Here is the graphic from yesterday's game:

Post #: 1564
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 3:59:22 PM   
Karl Juhnke


Posts: 12883
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.
Post #: 1565
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:10:12 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.


Or, you know, lead the team to more than 6 points in the first half.

Maybe lead the team to a TD before the 6 minute mark of the 3rd?
Post #: 1566
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:24:10 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.

So you would need to know the league-wide data for QBs of middling teams with horrible offensive lines that can't hold up against an all-out rush when they're behind, and you'd also have to come up with a better way of accounting for games like yesterday, and AZ, and Cin, and Dallas, where he did what he was supposed to do in the fourth quarter to win and the defense blew it.

Kirk isn't amazing, or even good, at bringing teams back to win. But this kind of bullshit is a typical cherry-picking of a narrowly defined measure to make someone look really good or really bad when it suits the media's purposes.
Post #: 1567
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:32:58 PM   
Karl Juhnke


Posts: 12883
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.


Or, you know, lead the team to more than 6 points in the first half.

Maybe lead the team to a TD before the 6 minute mark of the 3rd?


True but this specific post was about 4th quarter comebacks. Cousins led a dandy one and the defense pissed it away.
Post #: 1568
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:43:02 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.

Even Jared Goff runs a better two-minute offense. With an underwhelming roster, Goff led the hapless Lions right down the field. Running a two-minute offense is a must in 2021 and Cousins is terrible at it.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/6/2021 4:44:29 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 1569
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:47:11 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		That wasn’t Goff being good. That was Zimmer being senile.
Post #: 1570
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:49:15 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.

So you would need to know the league-wide data for QBs of middling teams with horrible offensive lines that can't hold up against an all-out rush when they're behind, and you'd also have to come up with a better way of accounting for games like yesterday, and AZ, and Cin, and Dallas, where he did what he was supposed to do in the fourth quarter to win and the defense blew it.

Kirk isn't amazing, or even good, at bringing teams back to win. But this kind of bullshit is a typical cherry-picking of a narrowly defined measure to make someone look really good or really bad when it suits the media's purposes.

I would say this is what keeps Kirk from being an upper echelon QB. He doesn't change plays when it seems like he should. Just goes with what is called.

Should we have had more points in the 1st half? I say yes. The fake pitch, roll out was just a gimme play(a layup) every time we ran it. Easy pickings. Did we ever run it in the red zone? I don't think so. Brady would have kept calling it until they stopped it.
Post #: 1571
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 4:52:53 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 22855
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

That wasn’t Goff being good. That was Zimmer being senile.

Agreed. I would have blitzed one of the worst quarterbacks in the league at avoiding the rush on every play. He played right into Goff's hand. Really bad coaching.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 1572
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 5:11:33 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5819
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.


Or, you know, lead the team to more than 6 points in the first half.

Maybe lead the team to a TD before the 6 minute mark of the 3rd?


True but this specific post was about 4th quarter comebacks. Cousins led a dandy one and the defense pissed it away.

Its the same excuse as using Cook's fumble and Joseph's miss ... as if the only points that matter in a game come from the final or next to final drives.

He didn't get it done. Against the worst team in football. End of story.
Post #: 1573
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 5:29:04 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online 		Even when he’s not directly responsible for losses, he’s not completely blameless. The Vikings didn’t lose Sunday’s game because of the offense. But against one of the worst defenses in the league, the Vikings didn’t score a touchdown for the first 39 minutes of the game. They didn’t have a single drive last longer than five minutes, consistently forcing the Minnesota defense back onto the field.

https://theathletic.com/3001264/2021/12/06/kirk-cousins-needs-to-turn-around-vikings-ship-or-his-future-with-the-team-could-become-hazy/
Post #: 1574
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2021 5:31:52 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77426
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online 		That meant the Vikings just needed to stop Goff and the Lions from going 75 yards in 1 minute and 50 seconds with no timeouts in front of a half-empty stadium for a fan base whose optimism has been drained by years of the Lions finding ways to crumble in these moments. They’d already failed on a fourth down at their own 28, which basically gifted the Vikings a late lead, and hadn’t converted on a single third down all afternoon.

Yet the Vikings sat back in prevent defense, rarely blitzing a quarterback who’s terrible against the blitz, content to give up passes in 7- and 8-yard chunks until the 14th play of the drive ended the game.

“They were just playing off and soft, and we have a play that we’ve been running probably since training camp for that exact (scenario),” Goff said of his throw that beat the Vikings. “It’s for that exact situation.”

https://theathletic.com/2999497/2021/12/05/vikings-loss-to-the-lions-is-the-kind-that-can-lead-to-significant-changes/
Post #: 1575
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