quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's the highlights from week 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkdUIOmxNc

At 3:38 there's a near unforgivable check down
At 8:44 our terrible defense sacks Burrows to force a fourth down from deep in their territory and have given up just 24 points in the middle of the fourth quarter
At 8:58 is the play I talked about earlier. Dude just stands there and takes a sack from pressure he pointed out just seconds earlier.
At 9:34 our terrible defense stops Cincinnati again giving us another chance

From there we use our 1:48 to hit a mix of check downs and one nice pass up the middle to Conklin to get just into field goal range. Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking? Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking or CHANGING THE PLAY when the blitzer was coming and we didn't have the numbers to stop him? Probably.

Also you'll notice that Breeland was ass for the entire game as well.

Kirk has no forward lean, stipulated. Risk averse, check. Poor pocket presence, ya buddy. That said:

On the "near unforgivable check down," he gets rid of the ball just before he gets munched by the DE. Unless you know there was a receiver to hit downfield, the check down is the throw that's available. I forgive him.

On the sack, I wonder with no clarity if he has the latitude to change plays. Zimmer wants an aggressive QB who never throws an interception and seems unlikely to tolerate any freelancing of any kind. I can see where this would be fine with Kirk, who strikes me as someone who has never seen a rule he isn't dying to follow. Bear in mind he may have been adjusting the blocking when he's pointing the blitz out, and no one seemed ready to receive a pass who was in the screen.

On the tying FG, come on. He drives them nearly 60 yards with no timeouts and gets the game to OT. And it wasn't the Vikings defense he was going against.

I get the frustration, but remember: He's Zimmer's chosen QB. Spielman and Zygi signed off on both contracts. That is who they wanted, and they can all leave together (though Cousins has to be traded). The premise was that we'd have an elite defense and a stellar running game, so Kirk just has to be good in play action and not throw INTs. He's the only one who held up his end of the bargain, and did so while Nero, er, Spielman, failed to upgrade the interior OL when he has a QB whose biggest flaw is a total inability to handle pressure up the middle.

He is their QB, not their excuse.

Your reply is sensible and valid. That being said, allow me to retort.

On the checkdown, Kirk is not under any pressure. Yes the DE gets near him after he throws but he had ample time to throw and he still could have used his internal clock (yes - I know he doesn't have one) to know it was time to step up or scramble to his right to buy even more time. Even average QBs do this all the time. As it sits, that play would not even qualify as a hurry for the Bengal defense.

On the sack, let's just ignore the whole "didn't/couldn't/not-allowed to change the play" element which is still a really big deal; he still needs to throw that ball deep regardless of coverage or who's open. Aaron Rodgers does this all the time. You can get a completion, and incompletion, a penalty or an interception. All four of those are just fine on third down throwing deep. Taking a sack with the same look on your face as a deer in the middle of a country road at nigh is not.

The tying FG: Here's the play-by-play:

1st & 10 at MIN 5
(1:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to D.Cook to MIN 12 for 7 yards (V.Bell; R.Allen).

2nd & 3 at MIN 12
(1:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep middle to T.Conklin to MIN 39 for 27 yards (J.Bates).

1st & 10 at MIN 39
(1:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to K.Osborn.

2nd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:07 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to D.Cook pushed ob at MIN 39 for no gain (R.Allen).

3rd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:01 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to K.Osborn to MIN 45 for 6 yards (C.Awuzie; R.Allen).

4th & 4 at MIN 45
(0:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to K.Osborn to CIN 49 for 6 yards (M.Hilton).

1st & 10 at CIN 49
(0:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to A.Thielen to CIN 35 for 14 yards (E.Apple).

1st & 10 at CIN 35
(0:03 - 4th) K.Cousins spiked the ball to stop the clock.

(0:03 - 4th) Timeout #2 by CIN at 00:03.

2nd & 10 at CIN 35
(0:00 - 4th) G.Joseph 53 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-A.DePaola, Holder-J.Berry.

Look at all the completions for less than 10 yards that were in bounds. There are four pass plays that are completions that total 19 yards and ate up 65 or our 108 seconds. Weak.

There is nothing weak about driving a team 60 yards, including a crucial 4th down conversion, to tie the game. The goal is to get the points, not to be aesthetically pleasing.

A touchdown is both aesthetically pleasing and also wins the game. We were at our own 39 yard line with 1:30 remaining and Check Down Charlie checked down like the Checkdowniest Charlie that ever checked down. The big boys with balls try to win games not just do the minimum to keep alive.

The goal posts move again. Before the season all we heard was that Cousins couldn't get it done at the end of games. Now he is producing in the last 2 minutes and that isn't good enough either. The smart QB takes what the defense gives him in that scenario. That’s what he did. I would love a TD in that scenario too, bit the defense was taking away deep and the side lines and giving the middle.

I neither set nor moved the goal posts. If that's the best Cousins could do with nearly two minutes then his best is simply not good enough. I've watched lesser QBs with lesser teams move the ball with ease in the final two minutes. Cincinnati is the 19th ranked D in yards and 26th ranked D in points. Gotta get more than 19 yards in 65 of the 107 seconds.

Wasnt this the first game of the year and one of Cousin's worst games? #cherrypick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Is there any QB that hasn't failed this year? The top dogs all have 3 or more losses.

Cousins isn't the problem this year. Not saying he hasn't been in the past.

The defense and Head Coaching clock management are the reason we are 6-7 and not 9-4.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Is there any QB that hasn't failed this year? The top dogs all have 3 or more losses.

Cousins isn't the problem this year. Not saying he hasn't been in the past.

The defense and Head Coaching clock management are the reason we are 6-7 and not 9-4.

No one is presenting an argument that defense and head coaching clock management is doing a good job. Just what exactly should we all talk about in here? It's a long season you know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Eric Thompson
@eric_j_thompson
·
9h
Ready for this?

Cam Dantzler: 27th of 120
Patrick Peterson: 72nd of 120
Bashaud Breeland: 117th of 120
Mackensie Alexander: 119th of 120
...
...
...
...are you sure you want to see this?
...
...
...
...OK...don't say I didn't warn you...
...
...
...
...
Mike Hughes: 5th of 120

I was watching highlights the other night and Hughes made some great plays.

I thought it was a mistake trading him being he was finally healthy. Dumb move.

One has to wonder though why our CB's continually stink? What is Zimmer asking them to do that puts them in terrible position constantly?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Eric Thompson
@eric_j_thompson
·
9h
Ready for this?

Cam Dantzler: 27th of 120
Patrick Peterson: 72nd of 120
Bashaud Breeland: 117th of 120
Mackensie Alexander: 119th of 120
...
...
...
...are you sure you want to see this?
...
...
...
...OK...don't say I didn't warn you...
...
...
...
...
Mike Hughes: 5th of 120

I was watching highlights the other night and Hughes made some great plays.

I thought it was a mistake trading him being he was finally healthy. Dumb move.

One has to wonder though why our CB's continually stink? What is Zimmer asking them to do that puts them in terrible position constantly?

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Eric Thompson
@eric_j_thompson
·
9h
Ready for this?

Cam Dantzler: 27th of 120
Patrick Peterson: 72nd of 120
Bashaud Breeland: 117th of 120
Mackensie Alexander: 119th of 120
...
...
...
...are you sure you want to see this?
...
...
...
...OK...don't say I didn't warn you...
...
...
...
...
Mike Hughes: 5th of 120

I was watching highlights the other night and Hughes made some great plays.

I thought it was a mistake trading him being he was finally healthy. Dumb move.

One has to wonder though why our CB's continually stink? What is Zimmer asking them to do that puts them in terrible position constantly?

I don't think he cost hardly anything either... I certainly wasn't sold on him but didn't like them giving him away...

I thought they must really be sold on Gladney/Dantzler.

Not so much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Is there any QB that hasn't failed this year? The top dogs all have 3 or more losses.

Cousins isn't the problem this year. Not saying he hasn't been in the past.

The defense and Head Coaching clock management are the reason we are 6-7 and not 9-4.

No one is presenting an argument that defense and head coaching clock management is doing a good job. Just what exactly should we all talk about in here? It's a long season you know.

And we are still alive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Eric Thompson
@eric_j_thompson
·
9h
Ready for this?

Cam Dantzler: 27th of 120
Patrick Peterson: 72nd of 120
Bashaud Breeland: 117th of 120
Mackensie Alexander: 119th of 120
...
...
...
...are you sure you want to see this?
...
...
...
...OK...don't say I didn't warn you...
...
...
...
...
Mike Hughes: 5th of 120

I was watching highlights the other night and Hughes made some great plays.

I thought it was a mistake trading him being he was finally healthy. Dumb move.

One has to wonder though why our CB's continually stink? What is Zimmer asking them to do that puts them in terrible position constantly?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Gotta love Bardbury here -

https://twitter.com/WillRagatz/status/1471623049946406913?s=20

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

A veteran QB with this much experience that doesn't understand the right amount of aggression for throwing, probably isn't smart enough, or probably doesn't have the "it" factor for winning a SB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

We can't get rid of both Zimmer and Cousins, so we need to get rid of Zimmer, so Cousins supporters can see him fail with another regime, to show he isn't clutch enough to lead a team to a SB win.

So get rid of Zimmer, then Cousins.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's the highlights from week 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkdUIOmxNc

At 3:38 there's a near unforgivable check down
At 8:44 our terrible defense sacks Burrows to force a fourth down from deep in their territory and have given up just 24 points in the middle of the fourth quarter
At 8:58 is the play I talked about earlier. Dude just stands there and takes a sack from pressure he pointed out just seconds earlier.
At 9:34 our terrible defense stops Cincinnati again giving us another chance

From there we use our 1:48 to hit a mix of check downs and one nice pass up the middle to Conklin to get just into field goal range. Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking? Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking or CHANGING THE PLAY when the blitzer was coming and we didn't have the numbers to stop him? Probably.

Also you'll notice that Breeland was ass for the entire game as well.

Kirk has no forward lean, stipulated. Risk averse, check. Poor pocket presence, ya buddy. That said:

On the "near unforgivable check down," he gets rid of the ball just before he gets munched by the DE. Unless you know there was a receiver to hit downfield, the check down is the throw that's available. I forgive him.

On the sack, I wonder with no clarity if he has the latitude to change plays. Zimmer wants an aggressive QB who never throws an interception and seems unlikely to tolerate any freelancing of any kind. I can see where this would be fine with Kirk, who strikes me as someone who has never seen a rule he isn't dying to follow. Bear in mind he may have been adjusting the blocking when he's pointing the blitz out, and no one seemed ready to receive a pass who was in the screen.

On the tying FG, come on. He drives them nearly 60 yards with no timeouts and gets the game to OT. And it wasn't the Vikings defense he was going against.

I get the frustration, but remember: He's Zimmer's chosen QB. Spielman and Zygi signed off on both contracts. That is who they wanted, and they can all leave together (though Cousins has to be traded). The premise was that we'd have an elite defense and a stellar running game, so Kirk just has to be good in play action and not throw INTs. He's the only one who held up his end of the bargain, and did so while Nero, er, Spielman, failed to upgrade the interior OL when he has a QB whose biggest flaw is a total inability to handle pressure up the middle.

He is their QB, not their excuse.

Your reply is sensible and valid. That being said, allow me to retort.

On the checkdown, Kirk is not under any pressure. Yes the DE gets near him after he throws but he had ample time to throw and he still could have used his internal clock (yes - I know he doesn't have one) to know it was time to step up or scramble to his right to buy even more time. Even average QBs do this all the time. As it sits, that play would not even qualify as a hurry for the Bengal defense.

On the sack, let's just ignore the whole "didn't/couldn't/not-allowed to change the play" element which is still a really big deal; he still needs to throw that ball deep regardless of coverage or who's open. Aaron Rodgers does this all the time. You can get a completion, and incompletion, a penalty or an interception. All four of those are just fine on third down throwing deep. Taking a sack with the same look on your face as a deer in the middle of a country road at nigh is not.

The tying FG: Here's the play-by-play:

1st & 10 at MIN 5
(1:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to D.Cook to MIN 12 for 7 yards (V.Bell; R.Allen).

2nd & 3 at MIN 12
(1:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep middle to T.Conklin to MIN 39 for 27 yards (J.Bates).

1st & 10 at MIN 39
(1:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to K.Osborn.

2nd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:07 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to D.Cook pushed ob at MIN 39 for no gain (R.Allen).

3rd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:01 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to K.Osborn to MIN 45 for 6 yards (C.Awuzie; R.Allen).

4th & 4 at MIN 45
(0:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to K.Osborn to CIN 49 for 6 yards (M.Hilton).

1st & 10 at CIN 49
(0:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to A.Thielen to CIN 35 for 14 yards (E.Apple).

1st & 10 at CIN 35
(0:03 - 4th) K.Cousins spiked the ball to stop the clock.

(0:03 - 4th) Timeout #2 by CIN at 00:03.

2nd & 10 at CIN 35
(0:00 - 4th) G.Joseph 53 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-A.DePaola, Holder-J.Berry.

Look at all the completions for less than 10 yards that were in bounds. There are four pass plays that are completions that total 19 yards and ate up 65 or our 108 seconds. Weak.

There is nothing weak about driving a team 60 yards, including a crucial 4th down conversion, to tie the game. The goal is to get the points, not to be aesthetically pleasing.

A touchdown is both aesthetically pleasing and also wins the game. We were at our own 39 yard line with 1:30 remaining and Check Down Charlie checked down like the Checkdowniest Charlie that ever checked down. The big boys with balls try to win games not just do the minimum to keep alive.

The goal posts move again. Before the season all we heard was that Cousins couldn't get it done at the end of games. Now he is producing in the last 2 minutes and that isn't good enough either. The smart QB takes what the defense gives him in that scenario. That’s what he did. I would love a TD in that scenario too, bit the defense was taking away deep and the side lines and giving the middle.

I neither set nor moved the goal posts. If that's the best Cousins could do with nearly two minutes then his best is simply not good enough. I've watched lesser QBs with lesser teams move the ball with ease in the final two minutes. Cincinnati is the 19th ranked D in yards and 26th ranked D in points. Gotta get more than 19 yards in 65 of the 107 seconds.

Wasnt this the first game of the year and one of Cousin's worst games? #cherrypick

Yes it was week 1 and it was one of the games I picked where QB play cost us. I had brought up other games as well. For this particular game there was some coutner-argument disputing some of the specifics involved so I dug even deeper to present my cases. In my opinion I put a lot of time and effort into that post - more than 99.9% of other posts. Are you saying I should have done the same with the other 12 games as well in an effort to be "fair and balanced"? Cause guess what? I'm not going to.

You're like the shitty boss that walks by the workers once a day for two minutes and points out one thing they haven't done yet even though they've done a dozen other things already and then walks away thinking to himself "how would this place ever get by without me".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's the highlights from week 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkdUIOmxNc

At 3:38 there's a near unforgivable check down
At 8:44 our terrible defense sacks Burrows to force a fourth down from deep in their territory and have given up just 24 points in the middle of the fourth quarter
At 8:58 is the play I talked about earlier. Dude just stands there and takes a sack from pressure he pointed out just seconds earlier.
At 9:34 our terrible defense stops Cincinnati again giving us another chance

From there we use our 1:48 to hit a mix of check downs and one nice pass up the middle to Conklin to get just into field goal range. Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking? Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking or CHANGING THE PLAY when the blitzer was coming and we didn't have the numbers to stop him? Probably.

Also you'll notice that Breeland was ass for the entire game as well.

Kirk has no forward lean, stipulated. Risk averse, check. Poor pocket presence, ya buddy. That said:

On the "near unforgivable check down," he gets rid of the ball just before he gets munched by the DE. Unless you know there was a receiver to hit downfield, the check down is the throw that's available. I forgive him.

On the sack, I wonder with no clarity if he has the latitude to change plays. Zimmer wants an aggressive QB who never throws an interception and seems unlikely to tolerate any freelancing of any kind. I can see where this would be fine with Kirk, who strikes me as someone who has never seen a rule he isn't dying to follow. Bear in mind he may have been adjusting the blocking when he's pointing the blitz out, and no one seemed ready to receive a pass who was in the screen.

On the tying FG, come on. He drives them nearly 60 yards with no timeouts and gets the game to OT. And it wasn't the Vikings defense he was going against.

I get the frustration, but remember: He's Zimmer's chosen QB. Spielman and Zygi signed off on both contracts. That is who they wanted, and they can all leave together (though Cousins has to be traded). The premise was that we'd have an elite defense and a stellar running game, so Kirk just has to be good in play action and not throw INTs. He's the only one who held up his end of the bargain, and did so while Nero, er, Spielman, failed to upgrade the interior OL when he has a QB whose biggest flaw is a total inability to handle pressure up the middle.

He is their QB, not their excuse.

Your reply is sensible and valid. That being said, allow me to retort.

On the checkdown, Kirk is not under any pressure. Yes the DE gets near him after he throws but he had ample time to throw and he still could have used his internal clock (yes - I know he doesn't have one) to know it was time to step up or scramble to his right to buy even more time. Even average QBs do this all the time. As it sits, that play would not even qualify as a hurry for the Bengal defense.

On the sack, let's just ignore the whole "didn't/couldn't/not-allowed to change the play" element which is still a really big deal; he still needs to throw that ball deep regardless of coverage or who's open. Aaron Rodgers does this all the time. You can get a completion, and incompletion, a penalty or an interception. All four of those are just fine on third down throwing deep. Taking a sack with the same look on your face as a deer in the middle of a country road at nigh is not.

The tying FG: Here's the play-by-play:

1st & 10 at MIN 5
(1:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to D.Cook to MIN 12 for 7 yards (V.Bell; R.Allen).

2nd & 3 at MIN 12
(1:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep middle to T.Conklin to MIN 39 for 27 yards (J.Bates).

1st & 10 at MIN 39
(1:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to K.Osborn.

2nd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:07 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to D.Cook pushed ob at MIN 39 for no gain (R.Allen).

3rd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:01 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to K.Osborn to MIN 45 for 6 yards (C.Awuzie; R.Allen).

4th & 4 at MIN 45
(0:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to K.Osborn to CIN 49 for 6 yards (M.Hilton).

1st & 10 at CIN 49
(0:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to A.Thielen to CIN 35 for 14 yards (E.Apple).

1st & 10 at CIN 35
(0:03 - 4th) K.Cousins spiked the ball to stop the clock.

(0:03 - 4th) Timeout #2 by CIN at 00:03.

2nd & 10 at CIN 35
(0:00 - 4th) G.Joseph 53 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-A.DePaola, Holder-J.Berry.

Look at all the completions for less than 10 yards that were in bounds. There are four pass plays that are completions that total 19 yards and ate up 65 or our 108 seconds. Weak.

There is nothing weak about driving a team 60 yards, including a crucial 4th down conversion, to tie the game. The goal is to get the points, not to be aesthetically pleasing.

A touchdown is both aesthetically pleasing and also wins the game. We were at our own 39 yard line with 1:30 remaining and Check Down Charlie checked down like the Checkdowniest Charlie that ever checked down. The big boys with balls try to win games not just do the minimum to keep alive.

The goal posts move again. Before the season all we heard was that Cousins couldn't get it done at the end of games. Now he is producing in the last 2 minutes and that isn't good enough either. The smart QB takes what the defense gives him in that scenario. That’s what he did. I would love a TD in that scenario too, bit the defense was taking away deep and the side lines and giving the middle.

I neither set nor moved the goal posts. If that's the best Cousins could do with nearly two minutes then his best is simply not good enough. I've watched lesser QBs with lesser teams move the ball with ease in the final two minutes. Cincinnati is the 19th ranked D in yards and 26th ranked D in points. Gotta get more than 19 yards in 65 of the 107 seconds.

Wasnt this the first game of the year and one of Cousin's worst games? #cherrypick

Yes it was week 1 and it was one of the games I picked where QB play cost us. I had brought up other games as well. For this particular game there was some coutner-argument disputing some of the specifics involved so I dug even deeper to present my cases. In my opinion I put a lot of time and effort into that post - more than 99.9% of other posts. Are you saying I should have done the same with the other 12 games as well in an effort to be "fair and balanced"? Cause guess what? I'm not going to.

You're like the shitty boss that walks by the workers once a day for two minutes and points out one thing they haven't done yet even though they've done a dozen other things already and then walks away thinking to himself "how would this place ever get by without me".

If we want to talk about it lets be realistic at least. Wasn't there a fumble by Cook that cost us that game in OT? Cousins moved us on another game winning drive if I remember correctly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's the highlights from week 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkdUIOmxNc

At 3:38 there's a near unforgivable check down
At 8:44 our terrible defense sacks Burrows to force a fourth down from deep in their territory and have given up just 24 points in the middle of the fourth quarter
At 8:58 is the play I talked about earlier. Dude just stands there and takes a sack from pressure he pointed out just seconds earlier.
At 9:34 our terrible defense stops Cincinnati again giving us another chance

From there we use our 1:48 to hit a mix of check downs and one nice pass up the middle to Conklin to get just into field goal range. Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking? Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking or CHANGING THE PLAY when the blitzer was coming and we didn't have the numbers to stop him? Probably.

Also you'll notice that Breeland was ass for the entire game as well.

Kirk has no forward lean, stipulated. Risk averse, check. Poor pocket presence, ya buddy. That said:

On the "near unforgivable check down," he gets rid of the ball just before he gets munched by the DE. Unless you know there was a receiver to hit downfield, the check down is the throw that's available. I forgive him.

On the sack, I wonder with no clarity if he has the latitude to change plays. Zimmer wants an aggressive QB who never throws an interception and seems unlikely to tolerate any freelancing of any kind. I can see where this would be fine with Kirk, who strikes me as someone who has never seen a rule he isn't dying to follow. Bear in mind he may have been adjusting the blocking when he's pointing the blitz out, and no one seemed ready to receive a pass who was in the screen.

On the tying FG, come on. He drives them nearly 60 yards with no timeouts and gets the game to OT. And it wasn't the Vikings defense he was going against.

I get the frustration, but remember: He's Zimmer's chosen QB. Spielman and Zygi signed off on both contracts. That is who they wanted, and they can all leave together (though Cousins has to be traded). The premise was that we'd have an elite defense and a stellar running game, so Kirk just has to be good in play action and not throw INTs. He's the only one who held up his end of the bargain, and did so while Nero, er, Spielman, failed to upgrade the interior OL when he has a QB whose biggest flaw is a total inability to handle pressure up the middle.

He is their QB, not their excuse.

Your reply is sensible and valid. That being said, allow me to retort.

On the checkdown, Kirk is not under any pressure. Yes the DE gets near him after he throws but he had ample time to throw and he still could have used his internal clock (yes - I know he doesn't have one) to know it was time to step up or scramble to his right to buy even more time. Even average QBs do this all the time. As it sits, that play would not even qualify as a hurry for the Bengal defense.

On the sack, let's just ignore the whole "didn't/couldn't/not-allowed to change the play" element which is still a really big deal; he still needs to throw that ball deep regardless of coverage or who's open. Aaron Rodgers does this all the time. You can get a completion, and incompletion, a penalty or an interception. All four of those are just fine on third down throwing deep. Taking a sack with the same look on your face as a deer in the middle of a country road at nigh is not.

The tying FG: Here's the play-by-play:

1st & 10 at MIN 5
(1:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to D.Cook to MIN 12 for 7 yards (V.Bell; R.Allen).

2nd & 3 at MIN 12
(1:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep middle to T.Conklin to MIN 39 for 27 yards (J.Bates).

1st & 10 at MIN 39
(1:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to K.Osborn.

2nd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:07 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to D.Cook pushed ob at MIN 39 for no gain (R.Allen).

3rd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:01 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to K.Osborn to MIN 45 for 6 yards (C.Awuzie; R.Allen).

4th & 4 at MIN 45
(0:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to K.Osborn to CIN 49 for 6 yards (M.Hilton).

1st & 10 at CIN 49
(0:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to A.Thielen to CIN 35 for 14 yards (E.Apple).

1st & 10 at CIN 35
(0:03 - 4th) K.Cousins spiked the ball to stop the clock.

(0:03 - 4th) Timeout #2 by CIN at 00:03.

2nd & 10 at CIN 35
(0:00 - 4th) G.Joseph 53 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-A.DePaola, Holder-J.Berry.

Look at all the completions for less than 10 yards that were in bounds. There are four pass plays that are completions that total 19 yards and ate up 65 or our 108 seconds. Weak.

There is nothing weak about driving a team 60 yards, including a crucial 4th down conversion, to tie the game. The goal is to get the points, not to be aesthetically pleasing.

A touchdown is both aesthetically pleasing and also wins the game. We were at our own 39 yard line with 1:30 remaining and Check Down Charlie checked down like the Checkdowniest Charlie that ever checked down. The big boys with balls try to win games not just do the minimum to keep alive.

The goal posts move again. Before the season all we heard was that Cousins couldn't get it done at the end of games. Now he is producing in the last 2 minutes and that isn't good enough either. The smart QB takes what the defense gives him in that scenario. That’s what he did. I would love a TD in that scenario too, bit the defense was taking away deep and the side lines and giving the middle.

I neither set nor moved the goal posts. If that's the best Cousins could do with nearly two minutes then his best is simply not good enough. I've watched lesser QBs with lesser teams move the ball with ease in the final two minutes. Cincinnati is the 19th ranked D in yards and 26th ranked D in points. Gotta get more than 19 yards in 65 of the 107 seconds.

Wasnt this the first game of the year and one of Cousin's worst games? #cherrypick

Yes it was week 1 and it was one of the games I picked where QB play cost us. I had brought up other games as well. For this particular game there was some coutner-argument disputing some of the specifics involved so I dug even deeper to present my cases. In my opinion I put a lot of time and effort into that post - more than 99.9% of other posts. Are you saying I should have done the same with the other 12 games as well in an effort to be "fair and balanced"? Cause guess what? I'm not going to.

You're like the shitty boss that walks by the workers once a day for two minutes and points out one thing they haven't done yet even though they've done a dozen other things already and then walks away thinking to himself "how would this place ever get by without me".

If we want to talk about it lets be realistic at least. Wasn't there a fumble by Cook that cost us that game in OT? Cousins moved us on another game winning drive if I remember correctly.

Yep. If you want to be picky, you could blame Herbert for losing game last night because he didn't take team down field for game winning FG at end of regulation. Just ignoring all the good that he did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

We can't get rid of both Zimmer and Cousins, so we need to get rid of Zimmer, so Cousins supporters can see him fail with another regime, to show he isn't clutch enough to lead a team to a SB win.

So get rid of Zimmer, then Cousins.

Cousins has had the 30th ranked Pass Blocking Oline....re watch the throw he made to Osborne under pressure last game...he completes 3-4 of those a week. He has played at a Pro Bowl level and should have 8-9 game winning drives this year. Again this is with a 30th ranked defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Here's the highlights from week 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqkdUIOmxNc

At 3:38 there's a near unforgivable check down
At 8:44 our terrible defense sacks Burrows to force a fourth down from deep in their territory and have given up just 24 points in the middle of the fourth quarter
At 8:58 is the play I talked about earlier. Dude just stands there and takes a sack from pressure he pointed out just seconds earlier.
At 9:34 our terrible defense stops Cincinnati again giving us another chance

From there we use our 1:48 to hit a mix of check downs and one nice pass up the middle to Conklin to get just into field goal range. Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking? Was a TD possible with some extra risk taking or CHANGING THE PLAY when the blitzer was coming and we didn't have the numbers to stop him? Probably.

Also you'll notice that Breeland was ass for the entire game as well.

Kirk has no forward lean, stipulated. Risk averse, check. Poor pocket presence, ya buddy. That said:

On the "near unforgivable check down," he gets rid of the ball just before he gets munched by the DE. Unless you know there was a receiver to hit downfield, the check down is the throw that's available. I forgive him.

On the sack, I wonder with no clarity if he has the latitude to change plays. Zimmer wants an aggressive QB who never throws an interception and seems unlikely to tolerate any freelancing of any kind. I can see where this would be fine with Kirk, who strikes me as someone who has never seen a rule he isn't dying to follow. Bear in mind he may have been adjusting the blocking when he's pointing the blitz out, and no one seemed ready to receive a pass who was in the screen.

On the tying FG, come on. He drives them nearly 60 yards with no timeouts and gets the game to OT. And it wasn't the Vikings defense he was going against.

I get the frustration, but remember: He's Zimmer's chosen QB. Spielman and Zygi signed off on both contracts. That is who they wanted, and they can all leave together (though Cousins has to be traded). The premise was that we'd have an elite defense and a stellar running game, so Kirk just has to be good in play action and not throw INTs. He's the only one who held up his end of the bargain, and did so while Nero, er, Spielman, failed to upgrade the interior OL when he has a QB whose biggest flaw is a total inability to handle pressure up the middle.

He is their QB, not their excuse.

Your reply is sensible and valid. That being said, allow me to retort.

On the checkdown, Kirk is not under any pressure. Yes the DE gets near him after he throws but he had ample time to throw and he still could have used his internal clock (yes - I know he doesn't have one) to know it was time to step up or scramble to his right to buy even more time. Even average QBs do this all the time. As it sits, that play would not even qualify as a hurry for the Bengal defense.

On the sack, let's just ignore the whole "didn't/couldn't/not-allowed to change the play" element which is still a really big deal; he still needs to throw that ball deep regardless of coverage or who's open. Aaron Rodgers does this all the time. You can get a completion, and incompletion, a penalty or an interception. All four of those are just fine on third down throwing deep. Taking a sack with the same look on your face as a deer in the middle of a country road at nigh is not.

The tying FG: Here's the play-by-play:

1st & 10 at MIN 5
(1:47 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to D.Cook to MIN 12 for 7 yards (V.Bell; R.Allen).

2nd & 3 at MIN 12
(1:30 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass deep middle to T.Conklin to MIN 39 for 27 yards (J.Bates).

1st & 10 at MIN 39
(1:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass incomplete deep left to K.Osborn.

2nd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:07 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to D.Cook pushed ob at MIN 39 for no gain (R.Allen).

3rd & 10 at MIN 39
(1:01 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to K.Osborn to MIN 45 for 6 yards (C.Awuzie; R.Allen).

4th & 4 at MIN 45
(0:37 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short middle to K.Osborn to CIN 49 for 6 yards (M.Hilton).

1st & 10 at CIN 49
(0:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) K.Cousins pass short right to A.Thielen to CIN 35 for 14 yards (E.Apple).

1st & 10 at CIN 35
(0:03 - 4th) K.Cousins spiked the ball to stop the clock.

(0:03 - 4th) Timeout #2 by CIN at 00:03.

2nd & 10 at CIN 35
(0:00 - 4th) G.Joseph 53 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-A.DePaola, Holder-J.Berry.

Look at all the completions for less than 10 yards that were in bounds. There are four pass plays that are completions that total 19 yards and ate up 65 or our 108 seconds. Weak.

There is nothing weak about driving a team 60 yards, including a crucial 4th down conversion, to tie the game. The goal is to get the points, not to be aesthetically pleasing.

A touchdown is both aesthetically pleasing and also wins the game. We were at our own 39 yard line with 1:30 remaining and Check Down Charlie checked down like the Checkdowniest Charlie that ever checked down. The big boys with balls try to win games not just do the minimum to keep alive.

The goal posts move again. Before the season all we heard was that Cousins couldn't get it done at the end of games. Now he is producing in the last 2 minutes and that isn't good enough either. The smart QB takes what the defense gives him in that scenario. That’s what he did. I would love a TD in that scenario too, bit the defense was taking away deep and the side lines and giving the middle.

I neither set nor moved the goal posts. If that's the best Cousins could do with nearly two minutes then his best is simply not good enough. I've watched lesser QBs with lesser teams move the ball with ease in the final two minutes. Cincinnati is the 19th ranked D in yards and 26th ranked D in points. Gotta get more than 19 yards in 65 of the 107 seconds.

Wasnt this the first game of the year and one of Cousin's worst games? #cherrypick

Yes it was week 1 and it was one of the games I picked where QB play cost us. I had brought up other games as well. For this particular game there was some coutner-argument disputing some of the specifics involved so I dug even deeper to present my cases. In my opinion I put a lot of time and effort into that post - more than 99.9% of other posts. Are you saying I should have done the same with the other 12 games as well in an effort to be "fair and balanced"? Cause guess what? I'm not going to.

You're like the shitty boss that walks by the workers once a day for two minutes and points out one thing they haven't done yet even though they've done a dozen other things already and then walks away thinking to himself "how would this place ever get by without me".

If we want to talk about it lets be realistic at least. Wasn't there a fumble by Cook that cost us that game in OT? Cousins moved us on another game winning drive if I remember correctly.

Yep. If you want to be picky, you could blame Herbert for losing game last night because he didn't take team down field for game winning FG at end of regulation. Just ignoring all the good that he did.

You can defend Cousins all you want ... extract positive stats ... compare with other QBs ...

Cousins overall record speaks for itself. That's not making an argument based on individual game situations ... the other players on the field ... the coaching ... that's a summation of 10 seasons with two different franchises and multiple coaching staffs AND his ability to affect the outcome of games.

He ain't got it.