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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 2:39:24 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HL OSWALD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: HL OSWALD

This is Kirks 2017 horseshoe year...

Cousins is still who he is and its obvious... Same can be said for Case in 2017 and his above median year of play...

Hater or not, MOST all here called for Case to be passed over in favor of something more certain...

NOW HERE WE ARE WITH KIRK...

same exact spot...

The most tired and trite line in the history of the strib and talkvikes message boards

Typical deflection/ jab rather than address the substance of post (right or wrong) I make an opinionated hypothesis and rather than shoot down my deduction you deflect to an obtuse angle...


Case was a great backup and indoor QB....he was not built for the outdoors and had no where near Kirk's arm. That was Case's pinnacle year. He isn't good enough to win it all.

That is why they signed Kirk. Also they went thru QB's that weren't durable (Teddy, Sam, etc.)

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/27/2022 2:41:03 PM >

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Post #: 3876
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 2:40:03 PM   
HL OSWALD

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

All those crappy qbs out there who can’t have six, seven, nine or ten comebacks because they put the game away early when they have the chance. Losers!


So the defense has nothing to do with that?

It is only the QB that should be putting other teams away?

The only team the defense has come close to shutting down all year was GB.

We currently reside in an atmosphere where a segment of our society cannot focus on facts related to topic but would rather skew what-about-isms to better fit their agendas...
Post #: 3877
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 2:42:14 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 29174
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HL OSWALD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

All those crappy qbs out there who can’t have six, seven, nine or ten comebacks because they put the game away early when they have the chance. Losers!


So the defense has nothing to do with that?

It is only the QB that should be putting other teams away?

The only team the defense has come close to shutting down all year was GB.

We currently reside in an atmosphere where a segment of our society cannot focus on facts related to topic but would rather skew what-about-isms to better fit their agendas...


When teams have blowouts it isn't all about their offense...look at our games this year and tell me when the offense performed poorly outside of against Dallas and NYG.

A segment of society can't process 12-3 with a below average defense and have trouble giving a QB some credit.
He has been selected for his 3rd Pro Bowl in 5 season with the team. Other coaches and players seem to have no issue giving him credit.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/27/2022 2:44:29 PM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 2:42:43 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Oh you mean this one:


Nick Olson
@NickOlsonNFL
·
Dec 26
Kirk is throwing to the OPOY-favorite & a pro bowl TE behind two top-5-graded OTs with a good offensive head coach and is 19th in EPA/play, 14th in PFF grade & 13th in passer rating.

He's definitely been clutch, but a better QB would've put a lot of those close games away early.

I think Nick ignores 2 obivous things.....1) that the Giants have a good defense. 2) our defense played great but gave up the lead once again.

11-0 in one score games is our coach but Kirk has been clutch too.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J
Phil, let me ask ya? Is Nick Olson a Kirk hater or was a reading sarcasm the other day?

Nick Olsen is a 'Kirk Hater' because he doesn't ignore how poorly KC plays at times (while acknowledging that he has 'definitely been clutch')?

I don't remember other tweets from Olson, don't know who he is ... in that quote he may be guilty of downplaying the clutch performances this season compared to other factors ... but hater?

C'mon.

Its amazing how the pro-KC crowd want to give KC every shred of credit for the comebacks this year while spreading the blame for his .500 performances the 10 years prior. (yes I'm embellishing)

Its true, there are anti-KCers who have put all the blame for losses on Kirk ...

He has come through this season big time. He has also been very average at times. Or worse. I think its a fair point that, this season, he has found ways to dig himself out of the holes that he keeps putting this team in with poor decisions and poor throws. There are a lot other non-QB factors in that hole digging, of course.

QBs get too much blame / credit.



I'm not even thinking about .500 or blame. Just amazed at people like DF and Olson who can't shake the hate.

But it's cool

That's right ... get that last 'hate' jab in there before retreating behind 'But its cool.'

Olsen's tweet above offers a valid point of view, it may be narrow but hateful? No.
Post #: 3879
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 2:57:00 PM  1 votes
Todd M

 

Posts: 41552
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Status: online 		Lmao

Few QB's have been sacked or hit more or have a worse defense...Cousins with the most 4tg qtr comebacks...do better.

Warped.
Post #: 3880
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:00:43 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Lmao

Few QB's have been sacked or hit more or have a worse defense...Cousins with the most 4tg qtr comebacks...do better.

Warped.


Almost like they want to see what Mullens can do; which has been mentioned.

HL wants 2017 back? Does he remember why Case was signed or was the starter?
2016 was a nightmare; so they signed Case for a backup to Sam and his bad knee.
2016 was worse....Teddy horrible injury, trade a 1st rounder for Sam, and watch Hill try to be QB for a game. Also we went thru 3 LT in 2016.

We signed Kirk because of the merri-go- rounds of injuries at QBs. Also he is our most durable starter since I don't know when. 5 years and has missed one game to COVID.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/27/2022 3:03:06 PM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:17:31 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
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Status: offline 		You can say a lot of good things and bad things about KC that others will argue with.

What nobody can deny is he is one tough and durable SOB. I hope it keeps up because he takes a beating week in and week out.

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Post #: 3882
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:21:37 PM   
Mark Rapley

 

Posts: 363
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm just curious, if the Vikings win the SB the same way they've been winning all year, will that not be enough because it's not 'stylish' enough? This team reminds me of the 2001 Patriots and I would love a similar result to that team.
Post #: 3883
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:26:43 PM   
David F.


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Status: offline 		Sticking to facts. We won our most recent game on a 61-yard FG. The defense gave us two turnovers and a blocked punt yet, there we were, watching as New York scored late to tie the game at 24. Why weren't we ahead by more than one score?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:28:40 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Rapley

I'm just curious, if the Vikings win the SB the same way they've been winning all year, will that not be enough because it's not 'stylish' enough? This team reminds me of the 2001 Patriots and I would love a similar result to that team.


This would be the perfect Super Bowl win for this franchise. We don't do anything the easy way. That's precisely why I feel so strongly that it will happen.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 3885
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:30:51 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Lmao

Few QB's have been sacked or hit more or have a worse defense...Cousins with the most 4tg qtr comebacks...do better.

Warped.

So we're not supposed to discuss the bad with the good?

"If its not love slobber, hold thy tongue!"
Post #: 3886
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:32:50 PM   
HL OSWALD

 

Posts: 561
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Status: offline 		Justin Jefferson is the MVP of the Minnesota Vikings hands down...
Post #: 3887
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:33:46 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I went to the game and saw the beating Kirk took....TD to TJ he took one in the knees.

Amazing that you would think he should still be that accurate after shaking off cobwebs....


Daniel Jones took the exact same beating that Kirk took and managed to complete a higher percentage of his passes for more yards on fewer attempts. The main difference is that our guys caught his INTs whereas the Giants were kind enough to drop Kirk's.

Kirk could eliminate about half the QB hits he takes if he would develop even a tiny bit of pocket presence.


On the winning drive and the TD to TJ...pocket presence was staying in the pocket, taking the hit, and throwing it just before contact.

Getting rid of the ball just before getting pummeled is also pocked aware which he has done many times.

The completion to JJ on 3rd down on the game winning drive he released early as there were Giants in every direction.


The completion to JJ on 3rd was a sweet pass and was the epitome of excellence for a QB. Earlier in the game, on the exact same route, JJ was open by sixty-four miles and Kirk, under no pressure, missed him by two time zones.

Put. The. Game. Away.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 3888
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:35:59 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Rapley

I'm just curious, if the Vikings win the SB the same way they've been winning all year, will that not be enough because it's not 'stylish' enough? This team reminds me of the 2001 Patriots and I would love a similar result to that team.

Do you really believe there's even the remotest possibility that any SB victory under any circumstance 'will not be stylish enough?'

Or are you just completely missing out on one side of the KC discussions in here?
Post #: 3889
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 3:52:40 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline 		Kind of an interesting comparison considering these transactions were intertwined:

Vikes picked up Duke Shelley and Khyiris Tonga, both cut by the Bears after they picked up Viking cuts Armon Watts and Ihmir Smith-Marsette.

PFF ratings:
Duke Shelley 75
Khyiris Tonga 77
Armon Watts 49
Ihmir Smith-Marsette 44
Post #: 3890
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:07:21 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Sticking to facts. We won our most recent game on a 61-yard FG. The defense gave us two turnovers and a blocked punt yet, there we were, watching as New York scored late to tie the game at 24. Why weren't we ahead by more than one score?


I commented during the game about our untimely 3 and outs this season.
Post #: 3891
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:10:23 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HL OSWALD

Justin Jefferson is the MVP of the Minnesota Vikings hands down...


Finally. Any talk of Cousins needs to factor in Jefferson. Even the all-time catch earlier this season would not have been caught by a mere mortal, yet JJ bailed KC out. Just like Diggs and Theilen bailed him out over and over a couple of years ago with incredible catches.
Post #: 3892
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:19:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 30041
Status: offline 		Cousins himself admitted earlier this year that in the past he's played good but the team lost, while this year he said he is playing crappy but the team is winning.

Hey, it's ok to remark about the same thing! KC should not be a cult or even cult-like figure!

Sometimes Cousins just starts winging it, very accurately mind you, and in those instances reminds me of a poor man's Jeff George. Maybe a Fouts, Bledsoe, Marino type. Not completely of course in that IMO George had perhaps the best arm/passes in the history of football. And also KC isn't the flake George was.

Give Cousins a shot of whiskey before each half and he'd probably pass for 600 yards a game.
Post #: 3893
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:22:01 PM   
HL OSWALD

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 11/18/2015
Status: offline 		Justin Jefferson is to Kirk's 2022 as Diggs was to Case's 2017

Is it sustainable to get us past the The NFC Championship Game or will we again face a foe that dominates us up front on both sides of ball (Eagles deja vu)
Post #: 3894
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:43:27 PM  1 votes
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Sticking to facts. We won our most recent game on a 61-yard FG. The defense gave us two turnovers and a blocked punt yet, there we were, watching as New York scored late to tie the game at 24. Why weren't we ahead by more than one score?

Sticking to the ultimate fact.

WE WON!

STFU about not winning convincingly enough for your liking.

I've seen a million games where we beat the snot out of the other team for 3 QTRs then peed down our leg and lost in the final seconds of a game. I prefer winning, no matter how it's done. This team is far from perfect but it is clutch as hell. Enjoy it while it lasts, who knows when it will end.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 3895
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:45:14 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Kind of an interesting comparison considering these transactions were intertwined:

Vikes picked up Duke Shelley and Khyiris Tonga, both cut by the Bears after they picked up Viking cuts Armon Watts and Ihmir Smith-Marsette.

PFF ratings:
Duke Shelley 75
Khyiris Tonga 77
Armon Watts 49
Ihmir Smith-Marsette 44

Somebody in Eagan is doing something right.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 3896
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:49:20 PM   
HL OSWALD

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 11/18/2015
Status: offline 		Case Keenum had a passer rating of 98.3 with 3,547 yards, 22 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in 15 games in 2017.

Kirk Cousins has a passer rating of 93.3 with 4,117 yards, 27 touchdowns and 11 interceptions in 15 games this season.

NAME SEASON GP CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG YDS/G TD TD% INT INT% SCK SCKY RATE
Keenum 2017 15 325 481 67.6 3,547 7.4 236.5 22 4.6 7 1.5 22 136 98.3

NAME SEASON GP CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG YDS/G TD TD% INT INT% SCK SCKY RATE
Kirk Cousins 2022 15 389 592 65.7 4,117 7.0 274.5 27 4.6 11 1.9 44 311 93.3

----

Jefferson > Diggs

Justin Jefferson must be in contention for LEAGUE MVP

< Message edited by HL OSWALD -- 12/27/2022 4:51:11 PM >
Post #: 3897
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 4:59:42 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 29174
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Kirk has played like a Pro Bowler and JJefferson has played like an All Pro; who is denying your straw man HL?
Weird that TJ has had his best season ever. Theilen and KJ have both produced also.....The QB and Coach must be be okay also then?

What has Case done since or before the one season?
Kirk has done what he did at Washington...play at a Pro Bowl level.

Who also didn't say the offense was suppose to carry the team this year?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/27/2022 5:15:49 PM >

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Post #: 3898
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 5:03:43 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 29174
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		There are a couple of things that have me excited for the playoffs:

1) The rookie LB has been getting more playing time each game. He is flying all over the place.
2) Shelly, Gophers Rooke DLineman, and Tonga are playing at a high level.
3) Evans and Dantzler should be healthy by the playoffs.
4) KOC has been resting starters a series or two a game to keep them fresh; mostly on the defense.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/27/2022 5:06:49 PM >

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Post #: 3899
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/27/2022 5:40:40 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41552
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Lmao

Few QB's have been sacked or hit more or have a worse defense...Cousins with the most 4tg qtr comebacks...do better.

Warped.

So we're not supposed to discuss the bad with the good?

"If its not love slobber, hold thy tongue!"


No.

But this particular negative with this team as it is...chastising Cousins or any component for not doing more...to win easy seems a bit much.
Post #: 3900
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