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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:14:40 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18016
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

A rehash of regime priorities:

1. Manage expectations, cause it's not going to be pretty folks.
2. Fire Donatell.
3. Start on the road to continuity and shape the next iteration of the Vikings.
4. Scrap the 3-4 for the 4-3.
5. Try to trade or else cut expensive deadwood, yes it is a business.
6. Trade Za Smith, assuming equal value in return.
7. Sign only young free agents.

Agree, we need to get younger, faster, and cheaper, and it's going to hurt in the standings for a while.

We have limited picks next year because we went for it this year with a roster that never really had a chance.

That is all on the Wilf's. They insisted this was a competitive rebuild and it didn't work. Now it's time to blow it up and do an actual rebuild.

Problem is it did work in the minds and pockets for the Wilfs. You can write it down they will force the new regime to run it back once more. This was gravy for them making the playoffs. They're happy just to be in the hunt.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4526

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:25:08 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Post #: 4527

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:26:28 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

ESPN Top 4 play: the sideline pass to the Giants receiver. Was it a bobble? "NFW" (sort of a gameday thread inside thing). As he clearly and quickly gained possession throughout the rest of the move.

- Greenberg: "4th and 8, Cousins throws short figuring he can get it on 5th down." Everyone laughs.
- Peterson was absolutely horrendous, just terrible, barely on the screen in several big plays and TDs.
- Daniel Jones is the new league star (yeah, because our shit defense makes every QB a star).

Post #: 4528

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:29:34 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18016
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Vikings Targets in 4th Quarter
Dalvin Cook 5
T.J. Hockenson 5
Adam Thielen 1
K.J. Osborn 1
Justin Jefferson 0

This is one reason why we lost this game.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4529

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:34:52 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18016
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Our IOL continues to be flat out bad. Lawrence had 8 pressures up the middle and our run game is very inconsistent due to IOLmen getting beat. You can't blame Cook for all the negative yardage runs nor Cousins for having his pocket blown up on a regular basis.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4530

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:36:46 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

Ryan Clark: Kirk Cousins has to know what to do and not do what he has been programmed to do.

Rex Ryan: Pick them? With that defense?! They shouldn't have been there. And ~ you won't be there next year. Take Lions, Bears, anyone over them.

Post #: 4531

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:38:21 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

defensive coordinator Ed Donatell believes it’s the defense’s time to shine.

“”It’s our time to shine as a defense now that we’re hitting the playoffs. We intend to have success this year.”

***

I guess I'll stop worrying.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4532

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:41:16 AM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2082
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

I keep hearing I've never seen Jones play this well. Funny because I was saying that the first time the Vikes played them. Only this time he didn't have any turnovers.

Donashell is toast. Jones was getting cheap yards, it took him 2.5 quarters to realize how to neutralize Jones' running. I give credit to Jones he was on point, but every QB was on point vs this defense, even Skylar Thompson, broken Matt Ryan, Mac Jones, Mike White, Dalton, etc... looked as good against this D as they did vs anyone else.

We knew immediately they'd be in for a long day. I for one knew it after the first few plays. Barkley rips off 15 yds that gets called back for a hold. 1st & 20, crowd roaring up 7-0 early, Jones hits a 13 yd pass, then scrambles for the 1st. Felt that was a moment to really get them on their heels instead 5 plays 75 yds.

Post #: 4533

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:44:33 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

Post #: 4534

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:45:48 AM

Rob Viking

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Joined: 8/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Our IOL continues to be flat out bad. Lawrence had 8 pressures up the middle and our run game is very inconsistent due to IOLmen getting beat. You can't blame Cook for all the negative yardage runs nor Cousins for having his pocket blown up on a regular basis.

That's what I noticed as well. Cook and Hock were primary targets because Kirk has guys in his face immediately. The OLine played well enough considering the injuries but Kirk did well to avoid some negative plays as well.

I will say, the OLine gave Cook some nice holes. How many times does it look like he will go for 15 yds but he only gets 6 or 7.

Post #: 4535

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:51:01 AM

Bill Johanesen

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Our IOL continues to be flat out bad. Lawrence had 8 pressures up the middle and our run game is very inconsistent due to IOLmen getting beat. You can't blame Cook for all the negative yardage runs nor Cousins for having his pocket blown up on a regular basis.

True. The D is bad but the O has issues too. And the IOL includes ALL three players. Hoping Ingram improves but Cleveland at this point is who he is, a marginal player. And Badbury needs to go. But the team doesn't have the resources for viable replacements.

Post #: 4536

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:51:12 AM

Rob Viking

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Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.?

Post #: 4537

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:57:19 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 353
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Vikings Targets in 4th Quarter
Dalvin Cook 5
T.J. Hockenson 5
Adam Thielen 1
K.J. Osborn 1
Justin Jefferson 0

This is one reason why we lost this game.

This isn't being. talked about enough. How the hell do you throw the ball to Jefferson 0 times in the must win game?
He only had 9 targets all game, and a good chunk of those were on the first drive.

The defense was far and away the number one problem, in this game and all year.

But this is also why Cousins will always be a 12 to 15 guy. Was Jefferson double and maybe triple covered at time? Sure. Do people think Cooper Kupp was double covered on every playoff game last year?

That's actually why you have Jefferson. His strength is making contested catches, in traffic, etc.

I'm old enough to remember when people said "just give Kirk an oline"

The guy has a very good oline, weapons most QBs would die for, and still comes up short.
People shouldn't forget the 3 out on the 2nd to last dive.
The Giants have a couple pieces, but this is not an elite defense, not yet anyways.

Post #: 4538

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:57:23 AM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.?

Almost makes one wish we had a mobile QB.

Post #: 4539

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 7:59:34 AM

Arlowe84

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Joined: 9/30/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.?

Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing.
He needs elite protection.
A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open.

Kirk has no hope in these situations.

Post #: 4540

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:00:50 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long.

Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that.

Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach.

Then you have teams like Jets, draft high and get nothing.

Denver and Arizona might have just screwed themselves for several years with their huge deals for awful QB play.

If you think the next qb is available, draft him and let him prove it. But you don’t get rid of Kirk and then worry about it.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 1/16/2023 8:07:01 AM >

Post #: 4541

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:03:08 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

People shouldn't forget the 3 out on the 2nd to last dive.

Ah, the 'drive' that netted -1 yard.

Weirdly, the Giants then had a drive of 9 plays but for only 17 yards.

Post #: 4542

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:06:41 AM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2082
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

Short of the stick on 4th down yadda yadda. Did anyone see Cleveland getting bull rushed into Kirk's lap.?

Kirk is a statue, very little ability to make a play from nothing.
He needs elite protection.
A Burrow, any of these young QBs would have been able to sense any pressure, roll out and give their guys a chance to get open.

Kirk has no hope in these situations.

I don't disagree about having some mobility or pocket presence. However on that particular play, very few QBs are getting out of that. The worse part is that Cleveland looked like he would be able to handle Lawrence but next thing you know he's bearing down on Kirk. Lawrence was a monster, arguably the best player on the field yesterday.

Post #: 4543

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:07:46 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long.

Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that.

Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach.

Enough with the hypotheticals involving trades or draft picks: Cousins shit the bed with the season on the line. That is who he is.

Post #: 4544

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:09:09 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 353
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long.

Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that.

Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach.

I would love to get a QBOTF, but not sure how that will happen this year.
This is a very strong QB draft, but not sure we can make the work.
Considering we need to start drafting young defensive players too.
We only have 4 draft picks at the moment, so need to decide what you want to do.
Not much draft capital to trade up, and we have a low draft pick.

I would love to trade Cousins, but he has that damn no trade clause.
Alos not sure how many teams would want a 35 year old QB with 1 play-off win.

I think I'd try to see if you could pry Lance on the cheap from San Fran.
There's a good chance San Fran will roll with Purdy going forward, he's shown enough to trust him going forward.

What about trading Hunter for Lance? San Fran gets another very good defensive piece for a year or 2 SB run.
Minn gets a guy a lot of folks were very high on coming out of the draft.

Post #: 4545

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:09:34 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long.

Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that.

Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach.

Enough with the hypotheticals involving trades or draft picks: Cousins shit the bed with the season on the line. That is who he is.

Yes, and you have to deal with it until you find better. Like 27 other teams.

Some people need to just stop being fans until they get word the Vikings have a verified HOF QB that is 23 years old.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 1/16/2023 8:14:58 AM >

Post #: 4546

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:15:41 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

Fields does one read and takes off running. Doesn’t work for long.

Jones has more to prove than looking good against Vikings, everybody does that.

Philly is a maybe and Shanahan seems to be so good offensively thst it doesn’t matter. In todays league he might be the best coach.

Enough with the hypotheticals involving trades or draft picks: Cousins shit the bed with the season on the line. That is who he is.

Yes, and you have to deal with it until you find better. Like 27 other teams.

Because I am not the GM, yes as a mere fan I have to deal with it.

I guess one way to not deal with it is to make excuses for or rationalize having a stat-first, mostly robotic QB who never had 'It' and never will.

Post #: 4547

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:16:48 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24002
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Vikings Targets in 4th Quarter
Dalvin Cook 5
T.J. Hockenson 5
Adam Thielen 1
K.J. Osborn 1
Justin Jefferson 0

This is one reason why we lost this game.

It's also what a good defensive mind does. They take away your best option.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 4548

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:18:12 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 30048
Status: offline

Some people need to just stop being fans until they get word the Vikings have a verified HOF QB that is 23 years old.

That's your edit Ron?

Here is what you said on the gameday thread:

Safety outlet with season on the line?
If everybody is past the sticks you have a chance.

See how you couldn't bear to to blame the QB who actually THREW the ball short of the sticks? You know, throw the ball past the sticks. To have a chance.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/16/2023 8:22:58 AM >

Post #: 4549

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 8:23:20 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24002
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

How many teams in NFL does everybody think are satisfied at the QB position for the next several years?

Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Bengals, and Jags

That’s my list. Every single other team would entertain a trade offer or a high draft replacement.

Kirk is in the list below those 5 and a hell of a lot better than a lot of the remaining 27.

Philly, SF, maybe NYG, maybe Chi. There are probably 10 teams that would stand pat rather than take a chance on the unknown.

Besides, Kirk is currently at the BOTTOM of the list as everyone in the country is asking why he threw well short of the first down marker.

I would add Pittsburgh, Seattle, Detroit, Green Bay and a number of others to that list. Even Cleveland and Arizona would be hard-pressed to make that deal.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 4550