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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:07:34 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline 		ED was trash and KOC loses a lot of credibility for allowing that to go on the entire year. He's not exactly off the hook for the offense either. 18 games in and we couldn't execute a screen pass.
Post #: 5301
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:14:22 PM  1 votes
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Is it wrong to be a little pissed at KOC?

He hired ED on his staff. Let him run 18 games with it...where we never improved really, and when ED said he was rolling out something for the playoffs...it might have been worse.

If KOC was the boss he should have done...something.


Not sure the DC is going to matter much until the talent is upgraded.

That being said dropping Hunter into coverage was enough of Ed for me.

Also don't care for the proclaimed philosophy of "play soft coverage".

We shall see but I doubt the defense even cracks the top half of the league in one year.


https://www.vikings.com/news/ed-donatell-defense-coach-statement

Here's a short vid from Leber addresing the DC firing. Obviously he doesn't want to trash Donatell but he does address somethings that might interest you regarding possible improvements


Yeah he does make the point about players taking pride in the unit's aggressiveness ... hostility towards any offense is a good thing.

Donatell's group fell somewhere between affable and benign ... gave up way way too much space.

Air Donatell.

Everybody's talking about him like he's the Mother Teresa of DCs ... obviously, we need someone like Machete.
Post #: 5302
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:25:10 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

One of the interesting decisions will be on Dalvin Tomlinson....I thought he was a couple years older but he is 28.



something that nobody has talked about regarding tomlinson; he's got $7.5mm of cap that was kicked down to '23, and if the vikings want to re-sign him, they have to do it before the season technically ends, or that money hits our cap in full....

if we extend him before the end of the season we can control how that money is distributed, along with new contract money - we could extend him, and lower his already existing '23 cap hit....

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5303
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:30:03 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Is it wrong to be a little pissed at KOC?

He hired ED on his staff. Let him run 18 games with it...where we never improved really, and when ED said he was rolling out something for the playoffs...it might have been worse.

If KOC was the boss he should have done...something.


it should always be about the team, not about people's feelings...head coaches have to make decisions on the fly; it's the nature of the job...firing donatell several games back would have given the vikings a better chance to win playoff games, period....

if one is failing, they're failing...end of story....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5304
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:43:56 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Is it wrong to be a little pissed at KOC?

He hired ED on his staff. Let him run 18 games with it...where we never improved really, and when ED said he was rolling out something for the playoffs...it might have been worse.

If KOC was the boss he should have done...something.


it should always be about the team, not about people's feelings...head coaches have to make decisions on the fly; it's the nature of the job...firing donatell several games back would have given the vikings a better chance to win playoff games, period....

if one is failing, they're failing...end of story....


Was there a better coach on the staff?
Post #: 5305
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:20:12 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		Pettine maybe?
Post #: 5306
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:24:34 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Possibly Pettine

He wasn't horrible for the Puke, but I think Barry is a little better

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5307
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:25:58 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Pettine may have improved them enough for a win over the Giants, but I now want a DC that is even better, one that can make the defense into a top 10 defense.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5308
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:27:40 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Pettine may have improved them enough for a win over the Giants, but I now want a DC that is even better, one that can make the defense into a top 10 defense.


We're going to need A LOT more talent to crack the Top 10.

The only scheme I can think of that would do it with what we have would be the old 17 men on the field one...
Post #: 5309
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:31:15 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Agreed, need quite an influx of talent.

An Aaron Donald could make quite a difference, but they're pretty hard to find.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5310
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:33:30 PM   
marty


Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		As much as I assume Kirk will never bring a SB win, he did make some plays in the regular season that showed some potential is there. He just didn't show it in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, he ran out of gas, after performing well in the 3rd quarter.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5311
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 4:18:55 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline 		.
.
i'm assuming that the post-june 1st cut/trade designation was part of the cba, but I don't understand the value for the players....

if we cut all of the players below pre-june 1st we'd save $42.6mm...if we kept cousins we'd save $55.mm....

if we cut them all post-june 1st we'd save $74.9mm...with or without cousins....

we could keep a few, maybe lower cap hits, so we would need fewer replacements....

the spread between the numbers is $19.9mm - that's equivalent to the first-year cap hit for 4-5 solid players added....

at this moment we are ($24.5mm) over the cap - adding the $74.9mm = $50.4mm under the cap for our draft pool, re-signing some players, and signing some free agents....

why wouldn't teams always us the post-june 1st to cut players?....


cut player...pre-june #...post-june #

cousins…($12.5)…$0
thielen…$6.4…$13.4
harry…$7.3…$15.2
d’smith…$13.6…$15.3
cook…$7.8…$11
kendricks…$9.5…$9.5
hicks…$5…$5
ham…$3…$3
reed…$2.5…$2.5

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5312
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 5:57:31 PM   
Mark Rapley

 

Posts: 363
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Because you're making THIS year's cap better but NEXT year's cap a lot worse. That's why a lot of teams don't do it. You still have to field competitive teams both years.
Post #: 5313
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 6:35:41 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 14024
Status: offline 		Dead money is cap money like it or not.

Our dead money for either type of cuts is ridiculous..

_____________________________

**** you all.
Post #: 5314
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 12:13:36 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		So replay assistance, or the expedited review, why don't they use that for when linemen jump the snap? Such as when the OT jump 1/2 second before the snap, which happens reularly, and is rarely called.
Post #: 5315
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 7:50:02 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		why wouldn't teams always us the post-june 1st to cut players?....


FA period is in March. That's when you need your cap space.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5316
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:15:48 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

So replay assistance, or the expedited review, why don't they use that for when linemen jump the snap? Such as when the OT jump 1/2 second before the snap, which happens reularly, and is rarely called.

And imo that's such a huge advantage - and let's be honest, an easy call for 2 officials both looking straight down the line
Post #: 5317
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:42:01 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

One of the interesting decisions will be on Dalvin Tomlinson....I thought he was a couple years older but he is 28.



something that nobody has talked about regarding tomlinson; he's got $7.5mm of cap that was kicked down to '23, and if the vikings want to re-sign him, they have to do it before the season technically ends, or that money hits our cap in full....

if we extend him before the end of the season we can control how that money is distributed, along with new contract money - we could extend him, and lower his already existing '23 cap hit....


Oh wonderful. More potential dead cap or extend another player who didn't move the needle in any way.
Post #: 5318
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:44:47 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22989
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline 		Rumors persist that George Santos put on his resume that he played quarterback for the Vikings.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5319
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:54:32 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline 		why wouldn't teams always use the post-june 1st to cut players?....

Teams have to be under the cap by mid-March, when free agency starts. Seems they have to stay under the cap thereafter, so for a cap strapped team waiting until June 1st prevents that team from signing anyone.

Post June 1st is great for a team that is way under the cap. They can sign players, then release others later and I think decide how they want to spread each cap hit out (i.e. one year or two).
Post #: 5320
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:59:25 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline 		Since we'll be scrap hunting anyway, why not wait until June 1st then go dumpster diving on the cheap. Sign a bunch of injury-prone vets who really should retire. The fan base will be excited about those 'names' and the Wilfs will think they have their vaunted 'competitive rebuild' in place yet again. And the media won't call them out. Win win!
Post #: 5321
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:16:46 AM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 14024
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Since we'll be scrap hunting anyway, why not wait until June 1st then go dumpster diving on the cheap. Sign a bunch of injury-prone vets who really should retire. The fan base will be excited about those 'names' and the Wilfs will think they have their vaunted 'competitive rebuild' in place yet again. And the media won't call them out. Win win!

Sarcasm so thick, you need a chain saw…

_____________________________

**** you all.
Post #: 5322
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:21:16 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline 		It's seriously time to rip the bandaid off. Get rid of these dumbass contracts even if it means you win 3 games next year. Whatever they do DO NOT extend Cousins.
Post #: 5323
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:22:14 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Since we'll be scrap hunting anyway, why not wait until June 1st then go dumpster diving on the cheap. Sign a bunch of injury-prone vets who really should retire. The fan base will be excited about those 'names' and the Wilfs will think they have their vaunted 'competitive rebuild' in place yet again. And the media won't call them out. Win win!

Sarcasm so thick, you need a chain saw…


Unfortunately, not entirely sarcastic.

There are a couple of posters here who support Kwesi's every move. Some injured never was? Plug and play!
Post #: 5324
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:28:08 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

It's seriously time to rip the bandaid off. Get rid of these dumbass contracts even if it means you win 3 games next year. Whatever they do DO NOT extend Cousins.


Overthecap shows we are 24 million in the red, spottrac shows 14 million.

I doubt the pending DC will have any say. We need someone confident enough to start out from the ground up, actually a couple of feet under the ground.

Kwesi: We have to jettison half the defense. Our cap situation will suck even with that, so you'll have some bottom feeder FAs to augment a bunch of, well, backup types. The good news is we have the draft. But we only have 4 picks and so far I suck at dradfting.

DC: Hold on... Chicago is calling. Hey, nice meeting you, gotta run.
Post #: 5325
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