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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:07:34 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20937
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

ED was trash and KOC loses a lot of credibility for allowing that to go on the entire year. He's not exactly off the hook for the offense either. 18 games in and we couldn't execute a screen pass.

Post #: 5301

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:14:22 PM 1 votes

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6223
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Is it wrong to be a little pissed at KOC?

He hired ED on his staff. Let him run 18 games with it...where we never improved really, and when ED said he was rolling out something for the playoffs...it might have been worse.

If KOC was the boss he should have done...something.

Not sure the DC is going to matter much until the talent is upgraded.

That being said dropping Hunter into coverage was enough of Ed for me.

Also don't care for the proclaimed philosophy of "play soft coverage".

We shall see but I doubt the defense even cracks the top half of the league in one year.

https://www.vikings.com/news/ed-donatell-defense-coach-statement

Here's a short vid from Leber addresing the DC firing. Obviously he doesn't want to trash Donatell but he does address somethings that might interest you regarding possible improvements

Yeah he does make the point about players taking pride in the unit's aggressiveness ... hostility towards any offense is a good thing.

Donatell's group fell somewhere between affable and benign ... gave up way way too much space.

Air Donatell.

Everybody's talking about him like he's the Mother Teresa of DCs ... obviously, we need someone like Machete.

Post #: 5302

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:25:10 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9891
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

One of the interesting decisions will be on Dalvin Tomlinson....I thought he was a couple years older but he is 28.

something that nobody has talked about regarding tomlinson; he's got $7.5mm of cap that was kicked down to '23, and if the vikings want to re-sign him, they have to do it before the season technically ends, or that money hits our cap in full....

if we extend him before the end of the season we can control how that money is distributed, along with new contract money - we could extend him, and lower his already existing '23 cap hit....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 5303

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:30:03 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9891
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Is it wrong to be a little pissed at KOC?

He hired ED on his staff. Let him run 18 games with it...where we never improved really, and when ED said he was rolling out something for the playoffs...it might have been worse.

If KOC was the boss he should have done...something.

it should always be about the team, not about people's feelings...head coaches have to make decisions on the fly; it's the nature of the job...firing donatell several games back would have given the vikings a better chance to win playoff games, period....

if one is failing, they're failing...end of story....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 5304

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 2:43:56 PM

David Levine

Posts: 80877
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Is it wrong to be a little pissed at KOC?

He hired ED on his staff. Let him run 18 games with it...where we never improved really, and when ED said he was rolling out something for the playoffs...it might have been worse.

If KOC was the boss he should have done...something.

it should always be about the team, not about people's feelings...head coaches have to make decisions on the fly; it's the nature of the job...firing donatell several games back would have given the vikings a better chance to win playoff games, period....

if one is failing, they're failing...end of story....

Was there a better coach on the staff?

Post #: 5305

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:20:12 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20119
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

Pettine maybe?

Post #: 5306

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:24:34 PM

marty

Posts: 14129
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Possibly Pettine

He wasn't horrible for the Puke, but I think Barry is a little better

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Post #: 5307

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:25:58 PM

marty

Posts: 14129
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Pettine may have improved them enough for a win over the Giants, but I now want a DC that is even better, one that can make the defense into a top 10 defense.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 5308

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:27:40 PM

David Levine

Posts: 80877
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Pettine may have improved them enough for a win over the Giants, but I now want a DC that is even better, one that can make the defense into a top 10 defense.

We're going to need A LOT more talent to crack the Top 10.

The only scheme I can think of that would do it with what we have would be the old 17 men on the field one...

Post #: 5309

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:31:15 PM

marty

Posts: 14129
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Agreed, need quite an influx of talent.

An Aaron Donald could make quite a difference, but they're pretty hard to find.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 5310

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 3:33:30 PM

marty

Posts: 14129
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

As much as I assume Kirk will never bring a SB win, he did make some plays in the regular season that showed some potential is there. He just didn't show it in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, he ran out of gas, after performing well in the 3rd quarter.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 5311

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 4:18:55 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9891
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
i'm assuming that the post-june 1st cut/trade designation was part of the cba, but I don't understand the value for the players....

if we cut all of the players below pre-june 1st we'd save $42.6mm...if we kept cousins we'd save $55.mm....

if we cut them all post-june 1st we'd save $74.9mm...with or without cousins....

we could keep a few, maybe lower cap hits, so we would need fewer replacements....

the spread between the numbers is $19.9mm - that's equivalent to the first-year cap hit for 4-5 solid players added....

at this moment we are ($24.5mm) over the cap - adding the $74.9mm = $50.4mm under the cap for our draft pool, re-signing some players, and signing some free agents....

why wouldn't teams always us the post-june 1st to cut players?....

cut player...pre-june #...post-june #

cousins…($12.5)…$0
thielen…$6.4…$13.4
harry…$7.3…$15.2
d’smith…$13.6…$15.3
cook…$7.8…$11
kendricks…$9.5…$9.5
hicks…$5…$5
ham…$3…$3
reed…$2.5…$2.5

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 5312

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 5:57:31 PM

Mark Rapley

Posts: 363
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

Because you're making THIS year's cap better but NEXT year's cap a lot worse. That's why a lot of teams don't do it. You still have to field competitive teams both years.

Post #: 5313

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/20/2023 6:35:41 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16451
Status: offline

Dead money is cap money like it or not.

Our dead money for either type of cuts is ridiculous..

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Post #: 5314

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 12:13:36 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28305
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

So replay assistance, or the expedited review, why don't they use that for when linemen jump the snap? Such as when the OT jump 1/2 second before the snap, which happens reularly, and is rarely called.

Post #: 5315

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 7:50:02 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18177
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

why wouldn't teams always us the post-june 1st to cut players?....

FA period is in March. That's when you need your cap space.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5316

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:15:48 AM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

So replay assistance, or the expedited review, why don't they use that for when linemen jump the snap? Such as when the OT jump 1/2 second before the snap, which happens reularly, and is rarely called.

And imo that's such a huge advantage - and let's be honest, an easy call for 2 officials both looking straight down the line

Post #: 5317

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:42:01 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33122
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

One of the interesting decisions will be on Dalvin Tomlinson....I thought he was a couple years older but he is 28.

something that nobody has talked about regarding tomlinson; he's got $7.5mm of cap that was kicked down to '23, and if the vikings want to re-sign him, they have to do it before the season technically ends, or that money hits our cap in full....

if we extend him before the end of the season we can control how that money is distributed, along with new contract money - we could extend him, and lower his already existing '23 cap hit....

Oh wonderful. More potential dead cap or extend another player who didn't move the needle in any way.

Post #: 5318

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:44:47 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24695
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

Rumors persist that George Santos put on his resume that he played quarterback for the Vikings.

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Post #: 5319

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:54:32 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33122
Status: offline

why wouldn't teams always use the post-june 1st to cut players?....

Teams have to be under the cap by mid-March, when free agency starts. Seems they have to stay under the cap thereafter, so for a cap strapped team waiting until June 1st prevents that team from signing anyone.

Post June 1st is great for a team that is way under the cap. They can sign players, then release others later and I think decide how they want to spread each cap hit out (i.e. one year or two).

Post #: 5320

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 8:59:25 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33122
Status: offline

Since we'll be scrap hunting anyway, why not wait until June 1st then go dumpster diving on the cheap. Sign a bunch of injury-prone vets who really should retire. The fan base will be excited about those 'names' and the Wilfs will think they have their vaunted 'competitive rebuild' in place yet again. And the media won't call them out. Win win!

Post #: 5321

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:16:46 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16451
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Since we'll be scrap hunting anyway, why not wait until June 1st then go dumpster diving on the cheap. Sign a bunch of injury-prone vets who really should retire. The fan base will be excited about those 'names' and the Wilfs will think they have their vaunted 'competitive rebuild' in place yet again. And the media won't call them out. Win win!

Sarcasm so thick, you need a chain saw…

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who

Post #: 5322

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:21:16 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20937
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

It's seriously time to rip the bandaid off. Get rid of these dumbass contracts even if it means you win 3 games next year. Whatever they do DO NOT extend Cousins.

Post #: 5323

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:22:14 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33122
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Since we'll be scrap hunting anyway, why not wait until June 1st then go dumpster diving on the cheap. Sign a bunch of injury-prone vets who really should retire. The fan base will be excited about those 'names' and the Wilfs will think they have their vaunted 'competitive rebuild' in place yet again. And the media won't call them out. Win win!

Sarcasm so thick, you need a chain saw…

Unfortunately, not entirely sarcastic.

There are a couple of posters here who support Kwesi's every move. Some injured never was? Plug and play!

Post #: 5324

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/21/2023 9:28:08 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33122
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

It's seriously time to rip the bandaid off. Get rid of these dumbass contracts even if it means you win 3 games next year. Whatever they do DO NOT extend Cousins.

Overthecap shows we are 24 million in the red, spottrac shows 14 million.

I doubt the pending DC will have any say. We need someone confident enough to start out from the ground up, actually a couple of feet under the ground.

Kwesi: We have to jettison half the defense. Our cap situation will suck even with that, so you'll have some bottom feeder FAs to augment a bunch of, well, backup types. The good news is we have the draft. But we only have 4 picks and so far I suck at dradfting.

DC: Hold on... Chicago is calling. Hey, nice meeting you, gotta run.

Post #: 5325