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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:03:48 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		I'll bet the farm the Wilf's will continue to peddle this competitive rebuild crap.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5376
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:07:38 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22989
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I'll bet the farm the Wilf's will continue to peddle this competitive rebuild crap.

We are a year away...........................................from being 6-11.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5377
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:11:30 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

There is hope for quickly turning around the defense. Zimmer took the defense from 31st in 2013 to 14th in 2014. Still, the lack of talent plus the salary cap issues would seem to point to 2024 as the best case for a competitive defense. I'm looking forward to seeing how Kwesi takes on the challenge and whether his analytical approach is effective.


That one year turnaround is misleading. Rhodes, Harrison Smith, and Griffin were already on the roster before Zimmer showed up.

Zim moved those players into starting roles (along with Sharif Floyd) and drafted Barr. They signed Linval Joseph and Munnerlyn to help things.

The next year they drafted Kendricks and core of the D was established.
Post #: 5378
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:18:42 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

There is hope for quickly turning around the defense. Zimmer took the defense from 31st in 2013 to 14th in 2014. Still, the lack of talent plus the salary cap issues would seem to point to 2024 as the best case for a competitive defense. I'm looking forward to seeing how Kwesi takes on the challenge and whether his analytical approach is effective.


That one year turnaround is misleading. Rhodes, Harrison Smith, and Griffin were already on the roster before Zimmer showed up.

Zim moved those players into starting roles (along with Sharif Floyd) and drafted Barr. They signed Linval Joseph and Munnerlyn to help things.

The next year they drafted Kendricks and core of the D was established.

We currently have zero talent on this defense. It's time to start over and start acquiring assets and get cap healthy.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5379
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:20:31 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I'll bet the farm the Wilf's will continue to peddle this competitive rebuild crap.


They got the public to fund $498 million for the stadium, so why not.
Post #: 5380
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:22:05 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

There is hope for quickly turning around the defense. Zimmer took the defense from 31st in 2013 to 14th in 2014. Still, the lack of talent plus the salary cap issues would seem to point to 2024 as the best case for a competitive defense. I'm looking forward to seeing how Kwesi takes on the challenge and whether his analytical approach is effective.


That one year turnaround is misleading. Rhodes, Harrison Smith, and Griffin were already on the roster before Zimmer showed up.

Zim moved those players into starting roles (along with Sharif Floyd) and drafted Barr. They signed Linval Joseph and Munnerlyn to help things.

The next year they drafted Kendricks and core of the D was established.

We currently have zero talent on this defense. It's time to start over and start acquiring assets and get cap healthy.

Exactly. Also seeing that we're in a rebuild of sorts does it make sense to pay JJ 33 million a year with no young qb in sight?
Post #: 5381
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 8:45:57 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

There is hope for quickly turning around the defense. Zimmer took the defense from 31st in 2013 to 14th in 2014. Still, the lack of talent plus the salary cap issues would seem to point to 2024 as the best case for a competitive defense. I'm looking forward to seeing how Kwesi takes on the challenge and whether his analytical approach is effective.


That one year turnaround is misleading. Rhodes, Harrison Smith, and Griffin were already on the roster before Zimmer showed up.

Zim moved those players into starting roles (along with Sharif Floyd) and drafted Barr. They signed Linval Joseph and Munnerlyn to help things.

The next year they drafted Kendricks and core of the D was established.

We currently have zero talent on this defense. It's time to start over and start acquiring assets and get cap healthy.

Exactly. Also seeing that we're in a rebuild of sorts does it make sense to pay JJ 33 million a year with no young qb in sight?

We have no business paying him that kind of money. We are on the same path the Saints took kicking money down the road. Hell, Brees is still collecting millions every year from them sitting on his couch. They over paid Michael Thomas and he's done absolutely nothing but sit in the hot tub since.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5382
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 9:18:08 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22989
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline 		We have cap problems and very few draft picks. All the analytics on the planet ain't worth a damned.

Spielman left this organization in a really tough spot.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5383
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 9:44:41 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

We have cap problems and very few draft picks. All the analytics on the planet ain't worth a damned.

Spielman left this organization in a really tough spot.

They could have taken their medicine and cleared up any cap space mess left by Spielman last year, as they can this year. That's on Kwesi. The 2nd round pick etc. for Hockenson is also on Kwesi.
Post #: 5384
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 9:59:38 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline 		Hockenson is a good player and in a microcosm is worth a 2nd round pick along with the rest of the exchanged picks in the trade. But he will assuredly get paid very handsomely next year.

Kwesi is figuratively living like a king on a paupers budget. Void years baby!


Teams are built through the draft. If we traded some vets last year, we may have received a couple of day three picks. Those acquired picks wouldn't solve anything but they would have been better than nothing... especially as we are below the norm WRT draft picks. But with another year of decline and even higher cap hits this year, we'll get nothing and like it.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/22/2023 10:09:27 AM >
Post #: 5385
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 10:30:26 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Hockenson is a good player and in a microcosm is worth a 2nd round pick along with the rest of the exchanged picks in the trade. But he will assuredly get paid very handsomely next year.

Kwesi is figuratively living like a king on a paupers budget. Void years baby!


Teams are built through the draft. If we traded some vets last year, we may have received a couple of day three picks. Those acquired picks wouldn't solve anything but they would have been better than nothing... especially as we are below the norm WRT draft picks. But with another year of decline and even higher cap hits this year, we'll get nothing and like it.

As far as Kwesi, I'm hopeful, but mainly because he comes off as intelligent, and I'm a fan of analytics. There had to be at least a hundred others with a stronger football resume.
Post #: 5386
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 10:57:22 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40694
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Having JJ has been a lot of fun. Hasn't resulted in a single playoff win yet. And who's to say how the next couple of years go with our broke asses. Somewhere in there we're likely to target a QB in the draft I.E., rookie contract. Hope for lightning in a bottle...but...face the reality of Jefferson wanting to re-up...as some of the top guys have done early as their big $ starts to look smaller. One way or another a big next contract looms. Who knows what his behaviour will be like all through this.

I say take the draft picks. Move up for a QB. Get rid of the dead weight. Make Cousins suit up next year and navigate the lost year...then see you later...
Post #: 5387
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 11:19:12 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22989
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline 		The Vikings and Dolphins have requested interviews with Seahawks' associate head coach Sean Desai for their defensive coordinator vacancies.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5388
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 12:43:17 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

The Vikings and Dolphins have requested interviews with Seahawks' associate head coach Sean Desai for their defensive coordinator vacancies.



Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
Follow
Vikings have requested to interview Saints’ co-DC Ryan Nielsen for Minnesota’s vacant defensive coordinator job.

Nielsen also expected to interview with the Falcons for the same role.
8:10 PM · Jan 21, 2023

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5389
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 1:39:15 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Hockenson is a good player and in a microcosm is worth a 2nd round pick along with the rest of the exchanged picks in the trade. But he will assuredly get paid very handsomely next year.

Kwesi is figuratively living like a king on a paupers budget. Void years baby!


Teams are built through the draft. If we traded some vets last year, we may have received a couple of day three picks. Those acquired picks wouldn't solve anything but they would have been better than nothing... especially as we are below the norm WRT draft picks. But with another year of decline and even higher cap hits this year, we'll get nothing and like it.

As far as Kwesi, I'm hopeful, but mainly because he comes off as intelligent, and I'm a fan of analytics. There had to be at least a hundred others with a stronger football resume.

I think if you cut out the old buddy network / business-as-usual types the number drops down quite a bit. I'm okay coming at it from a different angle ... as long as he's leaning on the right football people to filter his decisions.

Besides HC and OC, Donatell and last year's draft were the two most important GM tasks (which he whiffed on), as well as the cap (which we made no headway on). Those things vastly outweigh bringing in Zed and Hock.

We can chalk year one to be a newbie but now the pressure is on.
Post #: 5390
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 2:06:35 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline 		The 13-4 record is a double-edged sword for the regime. Looks good now, yet if there is a drop off to normalcy it will look bad. Going 7-10 looks like a significant drop although all that really does is put the 13-4 record in perspective. I feel like we were a 9-8 team so losing a couple more games next season isn't a big deal and sounds about right.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/22/2023 2:13:24 PM >
Post #: 5391
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 2:12:28 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Hockenson is a good player and in a microcosm is worth a 2nd round pick along with the rest of the exchanged picks in the trade. But he will assuredly get paid very handsomely next year.

Kwesi is figuratively living like a king on a paupers budget. Void years baby!


Teams are built through the draft. If we traded some vets last year, we may have received a couple of day three picks. Those acquired picks wouldn't solve anything but they would have been better than nothing... especially as we are below the norm WRT draft picks. But with another year of decline and even higher cap hits this year, we'll get nothing and like it.

As far as Kwesi, I'm hopeful, but mainly because he comes off as intelligent, and I'm a fan of analytics. There had to be at least a hundred others with a stronger football resume.

I think if you cut out the old buddy network / business-as-usual types the number drops down quite a bit. I'm okay coming at it from a different angle ... as long as he's leaning on the right football people to filter his decisions.

Besides HC and OC, Donatell and last year's draft were the two most important GM tasks (which he whiffed on), as well as the cap (which we made no headway on). Those things vastly outweigh bringing in Zed and Hock.

We can chalk year one to be a newbie but now the pressure is on.


Yes there is the honeymoon period/year, but after that the pressure is always on. And Kwesi has several outs, at least internally. First, the D needs an overhaul. Plus he can claim he hit a home run with the 2nd round pick (Hock). And Cine + Booth are really rookies because they were injured. And RS left a cap mess. As you said though, no excuse for Donatell/DC which is a big thing.

So perhaps his grace period is extended.
Post #: 5392
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 2:32:54 PM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Kwesi and all GMs going forward won’t have the time they used to.

Analytics like snaps per draft class and general W-L record and QB play.

Serious heat by year three for any front office IMO.
Post #: 5393
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 2:52:21 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

It's seriously time to rip the bandaid off. Get rid of these dumbass contracts even if it means you win 3 games next year. Whatever they do DO NOT extend Cousins.

I get the impression the guys that are ok with 3 wins next year [and wasnt 3 yrs of the same mentioned?] are not drawing a pension yet

I get the impression some are ok with Cousins taking us nowhere while way overpaying for "names". Sometimes you have to start over to a degree.

To be clear, my intentions with this post were not in anyway snarky but attention. Maybe even a weak attempt at humor - but obviously it was all one big fail.
Post #: 5394
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 3:06:52 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

It's seriously time to rip the bandaid off. Get rid of these dumbass contracts even if it means you win 3 games next year. Whatever they do DO NOT extend Cousins.

I get the impression the guys that are ok with 3 wins next year [and wasnt 3 yrs of the same mentioned?] are not drawing a pension yet

I get the impression some are ok with Cousins taking us nowhere while way overpaying for "names". Sometimes you have to start over to a degree.

To be clear, my intentions with this post were not in anyway snarky but attention. Maybe even a weak attempt at humor - but obviously it was all one big fail.

No offense was taken at all Ricky! I was just pointing it out.
Post #: 5395
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 3:47:38 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Having JJ has been a lot of fun. Hasn't resulted in a single playoff win yet. And who's to say how the next couple of years go with our broke asses. Somewhere in there we're likely to target a QB in the draft I.E., rookie contract. Hope for lightning in a bottle...but...face the reality of Jefferson wanting to re-up...as some of the top guys have done early as their big $ starts to look smaller. One way or another a big next contract looms. Who knows what his behaviour will be like all through this.

I say take the draft picks. Move up for a QB. Get rid of the dead weight. Make Cousins suit up next year and navigate the lost year...then see you later...



I was watching a Jefferson interview when players were cleaning out their lockers a couple of days back, and during a conversation about a new contract, jefferson said "they don't even have to give me a new deal this year if they don't want to"...which, of course, is true....

let him play out the '23 season and the 5th-year option - that buys us two more seasons to build a team and re-boot the dead cap....

the vikes/jefferson can take out an insurance policy against injury, and he can borrow some money against future earnings if he wants to start living large....

i don't expect many people to agree with me because fans/media/talking heads have been talking about his new deal happening at the end of this season since September, and for it not to happen might blow it all up....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5396
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 4:08:54 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40694
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Hmm...shame on me for not having the full quote in my head. I only had half of it and ran my own (negative)narrative on it.
Post #: 5397
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 4:12:22 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40694
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Need something to tether too. I've not been in good head space since the season ended. Haven't watched any football.
Post #: 5398
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 4:51:34 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Having JJ has been a lot of fun. Hasn't resulted in a single playoff win yet. And who's to say how the next couple of years go with our broke asses. Somewhere in there we're likely to target a QB in the draft I.E., rookie contract. Hope for lightning in a bottle...but...face the reality of Jefferson wanting to re-up...as some of the top guys have done early as their big $ starts to look smaller. One way or another a big next contract looms. Who knows what his behaviour will be like all through this.

I say take the draft picks. Move up for a QB. Get rid of the dead weight. Make Cousins suit up next year and navigate the lost year...then see you later...



I was watching a Jefferson interview when players were cleaning out their lockers a couple of days back, and during a conversation about a new contract, jefferson said "they don't even have to give me a new deal this year if they don't want to"...which, of course, is true....

let him play out the '23 season and the 5th-year option - that buys us two more seasons to build a team and re-boot the dead cap....

the vikes/jefferson can take out an insurance policy against injury, and he can borrow some money against future earnings if he wants to start living large....

i don't expect many people to agree with me because fans/media/talking heads have been talking about his new deal happening at the end of this season since September, and for it not to happen might blow it all up....


Teams try to sign mega-stars early, let's say before the 5th year. To let him play out his option... borrow money (?)... are you suggesting just let him walk, and get nothing?
Post #: 5399
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/22/2023 4:53:39 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28639
Status: offline 		Diggs showing up Allen big time. That clip will go national tomorrow, and Diggs damn well knows it.
Post #: 5400
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