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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:00:15 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

.2024 is clean

This is a very good thing.

It's clean-ish. There will be Cousins' $12.5 million in dead cap from his void years.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 6701

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:04:58 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

.2024 is clean

This is a very good thing.

Fail.

Hunter's dead cap.

Cousins' dead cap.

Maybe some others stashed away too.

Post #: 6702

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:06:43 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

.2024 is clean

This is a very good thing.

It's clean-ish. There will be Cousins' $12.5 million in dead cap from his void years.

And Hunter at $11.2 million spread over 2024-25.

And who knows what other cap gets pushed forward from pending cuts the next two days.

Post #: 6703

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:19:46 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

Post #: 6704

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:25:39 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Some posters seem to want to go 0-17, get the best QB, try it for a year or two and if doesn't work out go 0-17 again.

Outside Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Lawerence no team is completely satisfied at QB and there certainly is no proven formula for identifying and developing the "next stud QB".

The Vikings are like 27/28 other teams, trying their best.

Some posters want to keep Kirk Cousins until he is 40 and be a .500 team. Safer play, I guess, but I'd rather be the Bears right now than the Vikings.

Who?

Post #: 6705

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:29:58 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 6706

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:30:39 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

Unless he gets us to SB or wins SB, he's gone in 2024.

Post #: 6707

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:33:46 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Some posters seem to want to go 0-17, get the best QB, try it for a year or two and if doesn't work out go 0-17 again.

Outside Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Lawerence no team is completely satisfied at QB and there certainly is no proven formula for identifying and developing the "next stud QB".

The Vikings are like 27/28 other teams, trying their best.

Some posters want to keep Kirk Cousins until he is 40 and be a .500 team. Safer play, I guess, but I'd rather be the Bears right now than the Vikings.

Who?

The same ones that were saying Cousins had a good chance to win MVP in 2022? I actually have no idea and shouldn't have even responded. Well, too late now. Who were the posters that wanted to go 0-17 so long as we're instituting a 'take everything at face value' stance on the ol' talkvikes this AM?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 6708

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:33:58 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

.2024 is clean

This is a very good thing.

It's clean-ish. There will be Cousins' $12.5 million in dead cap from his void years.

And Hunter at $11.2 million spread over 2024-25.

And who knows what other cap gets pushed forward from pending cuts the next two days.

If we give Hunter new deal today, would dead cap charges still be in play?

Post #: 6709

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:36:03 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Some posters seem to want to go 0-17, get the best QB, try it for a year or two and if doesn't work out go 0-17 again.

Outside Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and Lawerence no team is completely satisfied at QB and there certainly is no proven formula for identifying and developing the "next stud QB".

The Vikings are like 27/28 other teams, trying their best.

Some posters want to keep Kirk Cousins until he is 40 and be a .500 team. Safer play, I guess, but I'd rather be the Bears right now than the Vikings.

Who?

The same ones that were saying Cousins had a good chance to win MVP in 2022? I actually have no idea and shouldn't have even responded. Well, too late now. Who were the posters that wanted to go 0-17 so long as we're instituting a 'take everything at face value' stance on the ol' talkvikes this AM?

So, no one on either side.

Glad we got that out in the open.

Post #: 6710

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:38:13 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

Thank you on the $48 million. I've tried to say the same to no avail.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/14/2023 10:41:34 AM >

Post #: 6711

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:39:36 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

I am serious, but not as a Cousins cheerleader, but as one who wants to understand what you just said. So correct me if I'm wrong. Play in '23 and there's 12.5 owed to the cap. Play out '24 and there's half of that left for '25?

With my first post I assumed the 12.5 would be due next year

Post #: 6712

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:40:24 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

.2024 is clean

This is a very good thing.

It's clean-ish. There will be Cousins' $12.5 million in dead cap from his void years.

And Hunter at $11.2 million spread over 2024-25.

And who knows what other cap gets pushed forward from pending cuts the next two days.

If we give Hunter new deal today, would dead cap charges still be in play?

Depends on how the deal is structured. And I don't know if you can 'take back' dead cap - for cap accounting purposes - from future void years in the event a new contract is drawn up.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 3/14/2023 10:45:07 AM >

Post #: 6713

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:42:34 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

I think Barr had the most convoluted contract ever.

Post #: 6714

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:43:38 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

I am serious, but not as a Cousins cheerleader, but as one who wants to understand what you just said. So correct me if I'm wrong. Play in '23 and there's 12.5 owed to the cap. Play out '24 and there's half of that left for '25?

With my first post I assumed the 12.5 would be due next year

Overthecap shows the 12.5 is spread out over 2024-25. Just like Hunter.

Post #: 6715

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:45:30 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

I am serious, but not as a Cousins cheerleader, but as one who wants to understand what you just said. So correct me if I'm wrong. Play in '23 and there's 12.5 owed to the cap. Play out '24 and there's half of that left for '25?

With my first post I assumed the 12.5 would be due next year

We gave him a fake year(void year)2024.

This was to get some cap space for 2021 and 2022.

Now we pay the piper in 2024(12.5M in cap space) and he probably won't be on our team.

Post #: 6716

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:46:06 AM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

Kwesi appears to be building a foundation now that allows the team to make a serious run in 2024. If his approach to FA continues, a version of the following seems very likely (thanks Spotrac):

2023
- In addition to existing cuts, get rid of Harrison Smith, Dalvin Cook, and Zadarius Smith.
- Extend Hunter ($19m year), Hockenson ($14m year), Jefferson ($32m year)

2024
- The team will be $106m under the cap.

Cousins will affect that number if he's around in 2024, and the team will sign a couple of FA's this year that will affect that number, but that's still a lot of money to spend on free agents in 2024 with little to no dead money on the books.

_____________________________

If the Cubs can win the World Series...

Post #: 6717

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:47:44 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

.2024 is clean

This is a very good thing.

It's clean-ish. There will be Cousins' $12.5 million in dead cap from his void years.

And Hunter at $11.2 million spread over 2024-25.

And who knows what other cap gets pushed forward from pending cuts the next two days.

If we give Hunter new deal today, would dead cap charges still be in play?

Depends on how the deal is structured. And I don't know if you can 'take back' dead cap - for cap accounting purposes - from future void years in the event a new contract is drawn up.

I would think dead cap sticks no matter what or teams could do this all the time with no consequences.

Post #: 6718

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:50:22 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

I am serious, but not as a Cousins cheerleader, but as one who wants to understand what you just said. So correct me if I'm wrong. Play in '23 and there's 12.5 owed to the cap. Play out '24 and there's half of that left for '25?

With my first post I assumed the 12.5 would be due next year

Overthecap shows the 12.5 is spread out over 2024-25. Just like Hunter.

And those can't be moved or altered because they are part of the 5 years his money has been spread out? - other than maybe move 6.25 forward.

I'd say grading on the curve I might get a D+ on a test

Post #: 6719

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:51:05 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39279
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Kwesi appears to be building a foundation now that allows the team to make a serious run in 2024. If his approach to FA continues, a version of the following seems very likely (thanks Spotrac):

2023
- In addition to existing cuts, get rid of Harrison Smith, Dalvin Cook, and Zadarius Smith.
- Extend Hunter ($19m year), Hockenson ($14m year), Jefferson ($32m year)

2024
- The team will be $106m under the cap.

Cousins will affect that number if he's around in 2024, and the team will sign a couple of FA's this year that will affect that number, but that's still a lot of money to spend on free agents in 2024 with little to no dead money on the books.

Cleaning up the books was going to take a couple years.

Me likey.

The hell we are in this year will not be our hell in the future.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 6720

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:53:05 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

I am serious, but not as a Cousins cheerleader, but as one who wants to understand what you just said. So correct me if I'm wrong. Play in '23 and there's 12.5 owed to the cap. Play out '24 and there's half of that left for '25?

With my first post I assumed the 12.5 would be due next year

We gave him a fake year(void year)2024.

This was to get some cap space for 2021 and 2022.

Now we pay the piper in 2024(12.5M in cap space) and he probably won't be on our team.

But if he is on the team, with nothing done to his contract, we pay 6.25 in '25?

Post #: 6721

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 10:58:40 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

So, it's possible next year at this time we could be keeping Cousins for the finally 12.5 in cap space? Is it probable?

jtbc, I'm not asking Dan ;/

So maybe you wait for your rookie QB next year if the real deal doesn't present itself this year

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Void year money is gone forever and already paid to the player. Just like Tomlinson's $7.5 million counts this year even though he'll be playing for another team. Void years probably shouldn't even be allowed - they feel dirty. People are all "look Cousins isn't even in the top 10 for contracts anymore!". Well, yeah he sort of is. If you count everything he's $48 million this year. I sort of got away from my point - No, Cousins can't just stay a Viking in 2024 for the void year money.

I am serious, but not as a Cousins cheerleader, but as one who wants to understand what you just said. So correct me if I'm wrong. Play in '23 and there's 12.5 owed to the cap. Play out '24 and there's half of that left for '25?

With my first post I assumed the 12.5 would be due next year

We gave him a fake year(void year)2024.

This was to get some cap space for 2021 and 2022.

Now we pay the piper in 2024(12.5M in cap space) and he probably won't be on our team.

But if he is on the team, with nothing done to his contract, we pay 6.25 in '25?

His current contract expires after this year.

It would be whatever his new contract would pay plus the 6.25 cap space hit.

Say his new contract has a 30M cap hit for 2025.

His 2025 cap hit would be 36.25M

For 2025, I'm hoping for a QB on a rookie contract with a 6 to 8M cap hit.

Post #: 6722

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 11:00:26 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Kwesi appears to be building a foundation now that allows the team to make a serious run in 2024. If his approach to FA continues, a version of the following seems very likely (thanks Spotrac):

2023
- In addition to existing cuts, get rid of Harrison Smith, Dalvin Cook, and Zadarius Smith.
- Extend Hunter ($19m year), Hockenson ($14m year), Jefferson ($32m year)

2024
- The team will be $106m under the cap.

Cousins will affect that number if he's around in 2024, and the team will sign a couple of FA's this year that will affect that number, but that's still a lot of money to spend on free agents in 2024 with little to no dead money on the books.

Cleaning up the books was going to take a couple years.

Me likey.

The hell we are in this year will not be our hell in the future.

It's 106M with only 26 guys signed. Have to count 51.

Still in good shape though.

Post #: 6723

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 11:08:23 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

His current contract expires after this year.

See, I didn't catch that (Duh-ville). I"m not quite clear what you call '24 & '25 (void, dummy?) but we'd have 6.25 less in cap for each year - got that, now

Ok, I think I can stop asking, to what are a lot of people, elementary questions now

Thank you all!

Post #: 6724

RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/14/2023 11:16:55 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

Kwesi appears to be building a foundation now that allows the team to make a serious run in 2024. If his approach to FA continues, a version of the following seems very likely (thanks Spotrac):

2023
- In addition to existing cuts, get rid of Harrison Smith, Dalvin Cook, and Zadarius Smith.
- Extend Hunter ($19m year), Hockenson ($14m year), Jefferson ($32m year)

2024
- The team will be $106m under the cap.

Cousins will affect that number if he's around in 2024, and the team will sign a couple of FA's this year that will affect that number, but that's still a lot of money to spend on free agents in 2024 with little to no dead money on the books.

Cleaning up the books was going to take a couple years.

Me likey.

The hell we are in this year will not be our hell in the future.