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RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread

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RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 1:02:51 PM   
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Dang it, Pablo is now in a tie with 59 others for the most starts. It's over!

Again your just cherry picking what I said. Another QAnon tactic.

I've got a better idea....don't use it in your argument. That way it can't come back to haunt you.

When you stop using Wins/Losses to judge a pitcher...

Give that spin to the guys that select the Cy Young Award. They'll laugh you out of the building. At the end of the day, it's always about wins and losses.



It may have been 30-50 years ago but not anymore. the voters have all but stopped looking at the number of wins as a factor.

It was preposterous to consider the 20 win Chieng-Meng Wang a candidate for the Cy over the 19 win Johan Santana, but that argument was actually made despite the fact that in every single metric outside of wins/losses Santana crushed Wang.

Felix Hernandez and Zack Greinke both won the Cy despite low win totals playing for otherwise bad teams. they dominated and just suffered from poor run support.

It's not spin.

It's fact. There are far too many factors that go into how a pitcher is awarded a win that have nothing to do with the pitcher, and the rules for getting a win, (for a starter you need to complete five innings, but for a loss you don't even have to get an out, and a relief pitcher can earn a win getting just one out) are so uneven it's laughable.

You need to look at stats that show how the pitcher keeps hitters off the basepaths and keeps the ones on the basepaths from scoring.

If you really look at those metrics since Pablo Lopez joined the team you will find a pitcher that is pretty damned good at his job.

Did any win a Cy Young at 29-32 with a 3.83?

Really? You went with that?

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"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 451
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 1:04:09 PM   
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Using Wins and Losses as the gauge for the value of a pitcher, especially in this era, is ASSININE!

He has a 3.83 lifetime ERA. Marginal, but not great. Lets give it some time and see how it shakes out by the All Star Break.


Then we better do the same for Arráez.

Dude hit a rock solid .338 the first half and a very pedestrian .286 the second half.



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Post #: 452
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 1:28:32 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Let me get this W/L thing straight.

Pitcher A pitches 5 innings, gives up 6 runs, but his team wins 8-6. He gets the W.
Pitcher B pitches 9 innings, gives up 1 run, but his team loses 1-0. He takes the L.

Pitcher A was the better player on this day?
Post #: 453
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 1:50:26 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Let me get this W/L thing straight.

Pitcher A pitches 5 innings, gives up 6 runs, but his team wins 8-6. He gets the W.
Pitcher B pitches 9 innings, gives up 1 run, but his team loses 1-0. He takes the L.

Pitcher A was the better player on this day?

And we'll on his way to a Cy Young award.

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Post #: 454
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 5:57:08 PM   
Mister Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Let me get this W/L thing straight.

Pitcher A pitches 5 innings, gives up 6 runs, but his team wins 8-6. He gets the W.
Pitcher B pitches 9 innings, gives up 1 run, but his team loses 1-0. He takes the L.

Pitcher A was the better player on this day?

And we'll on his way to a Cy Young award.


What were the NL Cy Young voters thinking last year

1. Alcantara 14-9
2. Fried 14-7
3. Urial 17-7
4. Nola 11-13
8. Darvish 16-8
10. Wright 21-5

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Post #: 455
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 6:14:32 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		Nice to see Gallo back in the lineup.

_____________________________

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Post #: 456
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 6:52:46 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Let me get this W/L thing straight.

Pitcher A pitches 5 innings, gives up 6 runs, but his team wins 8-6. He gets the W.
Pitcher B pitches 9 innings, gives up 1 run, but his team loses 1-0. He takes the L.

Pitcher A was the better player on this day?

And we'll on his way to a Cy Young award.


What were the NL Cy Young voters thinking last year

1. Alcantara 14-9
2. Fried 14-7
3. Urial 17-7
4. Nola 11-13
8. Darvish 16-8
10. Wright 21-5

Yep. Wins hasn't driven Cy Young voting since 2016. Only Verlander has won it with a 20 win season since and we have had full season winners with as few as 11 wins.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 4/19/2023 6:55:11 PM >

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Post #: 457
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 7:00:46 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45014
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline 		Gallo and Julien with homers help stake the Twins to a 7-0 lead.

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Post #: 458
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 7:54:37 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
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Status: offline 		Larnach pounds one to dead center. 10-2!

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Post #: 459
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 8:50:27 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		Twins win, time for hockey!

_____________________________

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--twinsfan
Post #: 460
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/19/2023 10:18:11 PM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Let me get this W/L thing straight.

Pitcher A pitches 5 innings, gives up 6 runs, but his team wins 8-6. He gets the W.
Pitcher B pitches 9 innings, gives up 1 run, but his team loses 1-0. He takes the L.

Pitcher A was the better player on this day?

If awards were based on one performance you may have something there.

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Post #: 461
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 7:28:07 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Let me get this W/L thing straight.

Pitcher A pitches 5 innings, gives up 6 runs, but his team wins 8-6. He gets the W.
Pitcher B pitches 9 innings, gives up 1 run, but his team loses 1-0. He takes the L.

Pitcher A was the better player on this day?

If awards were based on one performance you may have something there.


Brad how did the 2b that replaced Arreaz look last night? How did the guy that also replaced Arreaz at first look last night (Gallo)? Julien has hit HR on the road in NY and Boston. (He also takes walks and batted 5th).

Combined 5 for 9 with 2 HRs.

Smart GMs trade assets at their highest and have replacements...from what I see we have replacements at 1b and 2b and also a very good pitcher under contract.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 4/20/2023 7:34:22 AM >

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Post #: 462
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 8:52:12 AM   
Mister Ed


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Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline 		Was good to see some bats get healthy last night. early game today, apparently nerd stats say the Boston starter has career-wise been tough on RH batters so buxton/taylor among those sitting, Miranda is the DH

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Post #: 463
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 8:53:56 AM   
Mister Ed


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quote:

Smart GMs trade assets at their highest and have replacements...from what I see we have replacements at 1b and 2b and also a very good pitcher under contract.


What about catcher depth
Outfield depth

first base depth

They have to make some of these moves because they're not very good at player development.

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Post #: 464
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 9:31:15 AM   
bstinger


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Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		Small sample size, but I like what I'm seeing from Julien so far. Gallo has been great, hope he can stay on the field.

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"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 465
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 9:39:35 AM   
Mister Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

Small sample size, but I like what I'm seeing from Julien so far. Gallo has been great, hope he can stay on the field.


Julien hitting road trip homers in NYY and Boston in first week of ML career is pretty cool.

Keeping that spot warm until Polanco returns this weekend is unfortunate. Have seen no indication he plays other spots, so that's too bad.

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Post #: 466
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 10:29:50 AM   
bstinger


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Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline 		It's nice to know he's waiting in the wings though because it's almost a certainty that Polanco will be hurt again.

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Post #: 467
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 11:42:32 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Ed

quote:

Smart GMs trade assets at their highest and have replacements...from what I see we have replacements at 1b and 2b and also a very good pitcher under contract.


What about catcher depth
Outfield depth

first base depth

They have to make some of these moves because they're not very good at player development.


I see the signings and moves this past offseason as an improvement (FA adds: Taylor, Farmer, Vazquez, Gallo, and Solano FA Subtracts:Sanchez, Sano).....I was starting to lean last week that moving on from Kepler and Polanco in the offseason would have helped also....Kepler seems to have started to hit and we will see on Poloanco. Julien looks totally capable at 2B.

I don't agree on the OF/1B Depth.....Lots of injuries when you look at Larnach, Kepler, Celestino, Kirrilloff in the OF. Kirilloff at 1B also but Catcher is a problem.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 4/20/2023 11:46:03 AM >

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Post #: 468
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 12:30:11 PM   
Mister Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

It's nice to know he's waiting in the wings though because it's almost a certainty that Polanco will be hurt again.


correct, roider who breaks down.

Sounds like a RF who's been on the DL 6 times in the last couple of years.
and had one power surge season

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Post #: 469
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 12:34:06 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

It's nice to know he's waiting in the wings though because it's almost a certainty that Polanco will be hurt again.

Though there have been a couple issues the last couple seasons, Polanco was not one to miss time before last year.

He hasn't had a long career of injuries.

Other than he is under the watchful eye of the Twins crack medical staff, I don't see Polanco as being "injury prone"

that's Buxton's deal.

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Post #: 470
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 12:34:59 PM   
Mister Ed


Posts: 2796
Joined: 5/27/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Ed

quote:

Smart GMs trade assets at their highest and have replacements...from what I see we have replacements at 1b and 2b and also a very good pitcher under contract.


What about catcher depth
Outfield depth

first base depth

They have to make some of these moves because they're not very good at player development.


I see the signings and moves this past offseason as an improvement (FA adds: Taylor, Farmer, Vazquez, Gallo, and Solano FA Subtracts:Sanchez, Sano).....I was starting to lean last week that moving on from Kepler and Polanco in the offseason would have helped also....Kepler seems to have started to hit and we will see on Poloanco. Julien looks totally capable at 2B.

I don't agree on the OF/1B Depth.....Lots of injuries when you look at Larnach, Kepler, Celestino, Kirrilloff in the OF. Kirilloff at 1B also but Catcher is a problem.



How about organizational depth

that's in part why they had to make these deals, lack of depth and durability.

SS depth is ???

Martin- hurt
Lewis- hurt

So you get Farmer and Castro cuz Gordon ain't the guy apparently.

Kirilloff. One last chance

Then who? the beer league guy at AAA? Sabato? Who else?

ZILCH

OF:

Waitng for the next 2-3 years for the guy at Cedar Rapids
A couple of owies in, and they're already having to add Garlick and his sub .220 average
After that who ya got after Wallner, who hasn't proven jack?

LaMarre again?
Mark Contreras again?

Celestino was a wreck and now he's hurt too

then what? More nobodies

The cave/contreras/LaMarre types are great at AAA
You wanna win ML games with them? Yeah thats depth

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Post #: 471
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 12:35:51 PM   
Mister Ed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

It's nice to know he's waiting in the wings though because it's almost a certainty that Polanco will be hurt again.

Though there have been a couple issues the last couple seasons, Polanco was not one to miss time before last year.

He hasn't had a long career of injuries.

Other than he is under the watchful eye of the Twins crack medical staff, I don't see Polanco as being "injury prone"

that's Buxton's deal.

Polanco ankle should be a concern
Had time to heal and then took months to be ready.

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Post #: 472
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 12:51:20 PM   
bstinger


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Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

It's nice to know he's waiting in the wings though because it's almost a certainty that Polanco will be hurt again.

Though there have been a couple issues the last couple seasons, Polanco was not one to miss time before last year.

He hasn't had a long career of injuries.

Other than he is under the watchful eye of the Twins crack medical staff, I don't see Polanco as being "injury prone"

that's Buxton's deal.

I thought I heard somewhere that Polanco's issue could be chronic. Maybe I'm recalling it incorrectly. But he often seems to be banged up, even if he is playing.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 473
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 1:10:51 PM   
Mister Ed


Posts: 2796
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline 		Yesterday was a mirage
Pathetic first time around against the legendary Tanner Houck

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Post #: 474
RE: Twins 2023 Season and Game Day Thread - 4/20/2023 1:11:19 PM   
Mister Ed


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quote:

I thought I heard somewhere that Polanco's issue could be chronic.


That sounds like something I read as well.

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Post #: 475
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