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RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:30:42 PM 1 votes

Bill Johanesen

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Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Post #: 76

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:40:30 PM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Coach Charlie Wiess said on his morning show on NFL radio a few weeks back that BPA doesn't exist. He says you have your guys and when you're on the clock you take one of your guys. He said maybe you could trade down if you got the right offer and you were pretty sure one of your guys would still be there after the trade down.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 77

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:42:32 PM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Of those 3, I think only Cook will be traded this off-season, and they might even keep all 3.

I would consider trading Hunter, if you could get a least a 2nd for him, ideally a 1st next year for him. Then package that 1st and the Vikings 1st to move up to get Caleb Williams, if that is at all possible.

If Caleb Williams is supposed to be the next Mahomes, no one is trading out of number 1 slot. We would have to win 2 or 3 games this year to get him.

Cheapest move: Trade for Lance. Very small base salaries and it shouldn't cost more than 3rd rounder.

Next cheapest move: Draft Hooker at #23

Bold move: Trade #23, next years #1 and more to move up and get Richardson or Levis.

You're think they're so committed to Purdy being healthy and "the guy" that they'll give away Lance?

quote:

While it is expected that Purdy and Lance will be the two battling it out for the starting quarterback job, in the case the two aren't healthy in time for training camp, Darnold presents an experienced option to coach Kyle Shanahan, who's had to reach deep into his quarterback depth multiple times in the past.

Post #: 78

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:45:08 PM 1 votes

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26337
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Coach Charlie Wiess said on his morning show on NFL radio a few weeks back that BPA doesn't exist. He says you have your guys and when you're on the clock you take one of your guys. He said maybe you could trade down if you got the right offer and you were pretty sure one of your guys would still be there after the trade down.

Was Coach Weiss ever a GM? It is similar to Spielman talking about being a GM. The guy I trust with an opinion would be a great former GM.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 3/28/2023 4:46:37 PM >

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Post #: 79

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:53:30 PM 1 votes

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27519
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Coach Charlie Wiess said on his morning show on NFL radio a few weeks back that BPA doesn't exist. He says you have your guys and when you're on the clock you take one of your guys. He said maybe you could trade down if you got the right offer and you were pretty sure one of your guys would still be there after the trade down.

Very similar to what I read. Maybe the author used what Wiess said.

Spielman always talked of grouping guys around the areas of the picks and throughout the board. You almost have to or face chaos.

Post #: 80

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:54:04 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Of those 3, I think only Cook will be traded this off-season, and they might even keep all 3.

I would consider trading Hunter, if you could get a least a 2nd for him, ideally a 1st next year for him. Then package that 1st and the Vikings 1st to move up to get Caleb Williams, if that is at all possible.

If Caleb Williams is supposed to be the next Mahomes, no one is trading out of number 1 slot. We would have to win 2 or 3 games this year to get him.

Cheapest move: Trade for Lance. Very small base salaries and it shouldn't cost more than 3rd rounder.

Next cheapest move: Draft Hooker at #23

Bold move: Trade #23, next years #1 and more to move up and get Richardson or Levis.

You're think they're so committed to Purdy being healthy and "the guy" that they'll give away Lance?

quote:

While it is expected that Purdy and Lance will be the two battling it out for the starting quarterback job, in the case the two aren't healthy in time for training camp, Darnold presents an experienced option to coach Kyle Shanahan, who's had to reach deep into his quarterback depth multiple times in the past.

Lynch said Purdy is #1 on depth chart.

Now that I think about it, maybe that should scare us away from Lance.

Post #: 81

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:57:38 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Great article on a player's perspective of free agency. He said SF told him a year prior that they might not be able to keep him. Another variable GMs look at (probability of having to replace key positions via draft or free agency).

BPA... that's for simpletons

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35926950/mike-mcglinchey-shares-being-top-free-agent-experience-nfl-denver-broncos

Post #: 82

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 4:59:02 PM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Coach Charlie Wiess said on his morning show on NFL radio a few weeks back that BPA doesn't exist. He says you have your guys and when you're on the clock you take one of your guys. He said maybe you could trade down if you got the right offer and you were pretty sure one of your guys would still be there after the trade down.

Very similar to what I read. Maybe the author used what Wiess said.

Spielman always talked of grouping guys around the areas of the picks and throughout the board. You almost have to or face chaos.

He also said that the notion that it's just one person with a list of all the guys in order and you just pick the top one on your list when it gets to you is not reality at all.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 83

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 5:04:24 PM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Coach Charlie Wiess said on his morning show on NFL radio a few weeks back that BPA doesn't exist. He says you have your guys and when you're on the clock you take one of your guys. He said maybe you could trade down if you got the right offer and you were pretty sure one of your guys would still be there after the trade down.

Was Coach Weiss ever a GM? It is similar to Spielman talking about being a GM. The guy I trust with an opinion would be a great former GM.

Well then go find one and ask him then. In the meantime I'll stick with the guy that happened to be on the radio one morning on my way to work. Oh yeah, that same guy was talking about his time as OC with some team no one has ever heard of. I think it was the Patriots. The coach was some other nobody named Bill Belicek. This was around the early 2000's. Did anything good happen to that team around that time? I can't remember.

EDIT - I wasn't listening in the early 2000s - he was talking about his time with the team that was the early 2000s.

< Message edited by David F. -- 3/28/2023 5:08:26 PM >

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 84

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 5:04:50 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27519
Status: offline

The NFL's first scouting organization, LESTO (Lions, Eagles and Steelers Talent Organization), was started in 1963 by the teams mentioned in its name with headquarters in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.[20] It became BLESTO when the Bears joined the following year and BLESTO-V when the Vikings came on board later in the decade; by 1971 the Bills, Colts and Dolphins had joined and the group was known as BLESTO-VIII.[21] It is now known simply as BLESTO despite the fact that the Bears and Eagles are no longer members.[22] The group's offices stayed in Pittsburgh until 2007 when the headquarters moved to Jacksonville, Florida, with support offices remaining in Pittsburgh.[20]

As of the 2015 season, eighteen franchises participate in The National (Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, Cincinnati Bengals, Dallas Cowboys, Denver Broncos, Green Bay Packers, Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, New Orleans Saints, New York Jets, Philadelphia Eagles, Los Angeles Rams, Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, Seattle Seahawks, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Tennessee Titans), with eight served by BLESTO (Buffalo Bills, Detroit Lions, Jacksonville Jaguars, Miami Dolphins, Minnesota Vikings, New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers, and Washington Commanders). Each of the six non-affiliated teams (Baltimore Ravens, Chicago Bears, Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, Las Vegas Raiders, and New England Patriots) relies on its in-house scouting staffs.[22][23]

Post #: 85

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 5:08:01 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27519
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Read somewhere BPA is basically BS because there are other important variables.

Also, GMs really try to forecast their ability to move around in the draft. A reach is defined as whether you could have got the player in a significantly lower spot and there was little to no interest by other teams.

These are things us armchair GMs do not know, and while there may be more information in league circles the picture is far from clear.

Coach Charlie Wiess said on his morning show on NFL radio a few weeks back that BPA doesn't exist. He says you have your guys and when you're on the clock you take one of your guys. He said maybe you could trade down if you got the right offer and you were pretty sure one of your guys would still be there after the trade down.

Was Coach Weiss ever a GM? It is similar to Spielman talking about being a GM. The guy I trust with an opinion would be a great former GM.

Well then go find one and ask him then. In the meantime I'll stick with the guy that happened to be on the radio one morning on my way to work. Oh yeah, that same guy was talking about his time as OC with some team no one has ever heard of. I think it was the Patriots. The coach was some other nobody named Bill Belicek. This was around the early 2000's. Did anything good happen to that team around that time? I can't remember.

Some people should stay on the mat. Take the ten count.

Post #: 86

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 5:13:19 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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I wonder what KAM's strategy is. He doesn't draft for need or BPA.

Post #: 87

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/28/2023 5:41:29 PM

Jeff Jesser

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think you can trade down and get Hooker. 23 is a reach IMO

Why?

Because bloggers like you and I slotted him in the 3rd?

Here's a former GM (former means he isn't a GM lol) projecting him to go #5 overall: https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/35931704/2023-nfl-mock-draft-mike-tannenbaum-gm-first-round-picks-five-quarterbacks

With one year to go on Cousin's train robbery, QB is basically a top need. CB is a top need, and is also up there on premium positions. I'm good with QB or CB at #23.

Good stats but a very gimmicky offense, blown knee and is already 25. I could be wrong though. I’ve also read his accuracy is suspect.

Post #: 88

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/29/2023 8:29:49 AM

Mark Anderson

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Could QB Clayton Tune (Houston) be a Brock Purdy type find? If we don't go QB in Round 1.

Aiden McConnell(Purdue) has a lot of visits lined up.

Post #: 89

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/29/2023 5:02:23 PM

marty

Posts: 12651
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

I have a feeling O'Connell has a better chance of being the Vikings head coach in 15 years, than of being a great NFL QB.

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Post #: 90

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/30/2023 10:00:30 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27519
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Could QB Clayton Tune (Houston) be a Brock Purdy type find? If we don't go QB in Round 1.

Aiden McConnell(Purdue) has a lot of visits lined up.

I hope they leave no stone unturned. D is needed in the worse way, but IMO they definitely take a QB somewhere in the draft even if it's a boom/bust type in the 5th or whenever.

Post #: 91

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/30/2023 11:06:20 AM

David Levine

Posts: 76784
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I have a feeling O'Connell has a better chance of being the Vikings head coach in 15 years, than of being a great NFL QB.

Well, since he attempted a total of 6 passes in the NFL and is 37 years old, unless he quits coaching and has an unprecedented run in his late 30s/early 40s, I think "great NFL QB" is totally off the table for KOC.

Post #: 92

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 3/30/2023 11:25:56 AM

Todd M

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I have a feeling O'Connell has a better chance of being the Vikings head coach in 15 years, than of being a great NFL QB.

Well, since he attempted a total of 6 passes in the NFL and is 37 years old, unless he quits coaching and has an unprecedented run in his late 30s/early 40s, I think "great NFL QB" is totally off the table for KOC.

He's being Marty He's referring to Aidan O'Connell lower rank QB draft prospect.

Post #: 93

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/1/2023 4:45:14 AM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Yes, I was responding to Mark's post regarding Aidan

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 94

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/1/2023 4:47:00 AM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

I hope the Vikings don't draft a QB in the 1st 3 rounds this year, as that makes it a longer shot for them to get Caleb Williams next year.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 95

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/1/2023 3:38:03 PM

lyle chabot

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I really look forward to the draft every year, reading up on players that we could draft to help our team. But after last year's draft not so much. I know we need CB badly, but this is supposed to be a deep draft for CB's. I have been reading and listening to NFL draft gurus and it is a mixed bag about Hooker. I think we will trade out of the 1st round to gather more draft picks to include a high 2nd round pick and I would pull the trigger on Hooker then draft a WR and CB.

Post #: 96

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/1/2023 8:26:52 PM

Todd M

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I'm having a hard time seeing trade partners for #23. Esp one that sees us trading out of the 1st and somehow gaining 2 2nds.

It's going to be obv we want to sell making it harder.

Post #: 97

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/2/2023 12:10:51 PM

lyle chabot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm having a hard time seeing trade partners for #23. Esp one that sees us trading out of the 1st and somehow gaining 2 2nds.

It's going to be obv we want to sell making it harder.

As much as we traded last year in the draft, I think there will be a player that will not last until the second round that a team will want to trade up for. The question is how well the GM will negotiate picks?

Post #: 98

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/2/2023 12:16:19 PM

lyle chabot

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Todd, you have a valid point it may not happen, but it is a scenario that could land our QB of the future. I know Hooker may not pan out, but I think it would be worth the chance if he is available.,

Post #: 99

RE: 2023 NFL Draft - 4/3/2023 8:51:20 AM

Brad H

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I wouldn't mind drafting a guy like Dorian Thompson-Robinson later in the draft. The kid had a solid career at UCLA. He can run. Completed nearly 70% of his passes his senior season.

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Post #: 100