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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/6/2023 1:23:05 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

The Vikes have signed former Gophers QB Tanner Morgan. Awesome!



OK. Why?

Mitch Leidner wasn't available.


I realize it's only PS but this makes me really question KOC's ability to find the right guy. Dude had, arguably..... top 5 Oline, great RB's and NFL level WR's for years and still was, at best, average. No mobility, weak arm ect. He was a good leader to be fair.

Local boy PR move. Maybe 10% he lives in the neighborhood so he can bike in tomorrow, sign him.


Proximity might matter since he's working for the Gophers. Mullins has been limited in practice this week as well.

Its still a horrible idea, but its definitely the lazy one.
Post #: 3001
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/6/2023 3:19:55 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

The GM's first big decision was hiring KOC over Harbaugh.
Post #: 3002
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/6/2023 3:40:23 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.

On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.

For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.

I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers



That's not necessarily true.

In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.

In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015

In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019

In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.


Sorry, none of these examples disprove what I said. You just show that a team had a bad year and ignore all the other things they did to get to the Super Bowl. None of the the players you note that the teams got were even remotely a reason for the teams making the Super Bowl. I am only going to concentrate on Kansas City for brevity, Andy Reid brought with him an outstanding group of organizational talent that was excellent at talent evealuation including Bret Veach the current GM. My concern for the Vikings is that the have a good coaching staff, but I am worried about their current talent evaluation. Will give the new management team more time but the bad 2022 draft really hurt.
Post #: 3003
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/6/2023 4:33:23 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28647
Status: offline 		It was a good post but nothing was earthshattering. Yes, a team has to draft well regardless of where they are picking (or in KC's case, pick a generational talent). Yes, the coaches have to be good at developing players. Yes, the schemes need to fit. But a key component not mentioned is, again, the cap. Not just to round out a roster. A healthy cap allows a team to fill key needs, maybe sign a star and a couple of very good players, and keep the best of their own.

Barring a heavy use of more void years or BS magic to move $60 million in dead cap next year, we won't be healthy with the cap until the 2025 season. Hopefully not longer than that. Strangely, the roster is beginning to look like part of what Spielman outlined years ago, i.e. having 2-3 blue chippers (perhaps JJ, Darrisaw) and several purple/solid types (Hock, Hunter, O'Neill...). But we need more of the latter... without blowing up the cap. That's where the draft comes in, and yes on that front we are lacking. It's early, but not THAT early, to ask who from the 2022 picks is a must extend player? Nobody.
Post #: 3004
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/6/2023 4:51:27 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Ben Goessling@BenGoessling

The #Vikings are planning to have Garrett Bradbury back at center on Sunday after he was a full participant on both Thursday and Friday. They’ll start the game with the same guards (Ezra Cleveland and Ed Ingram), per Kevin O’Connell, so their opening day OL will be back together.

O’Connell said Dalton Risner and Blake Brandel could rotate in on Sunday. Both of them “continue to get work and could see some playing time,” O’Connell said.
Post #: 3005
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/7/2023 8:08:54 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3006
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/7/2023 1:07:31 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.
Post #: 3007
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/7/2023 2:16:31 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year.

On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB.

For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump.

I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers



That's not necessarily true.

In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years.

In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015

In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019

In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021.


The interesting thing in your examples is none of these teams tanked for a qb.
Beyond that... I still have nits to pick.

2000 Patriots were 23 years ago.... don't know that they are relevant to today's NFL.

2010 Broncos... 5 years later won the superbowl with a HOF qb they didn't draft.

2012 Chiefs won the superbowl 7 years later.

2016 Rams 5 years later won the superbowl with a HOF qb they didn't draft.

So much time passed between "tanking" and winning I'm not sure you can plan that out.
In addition... 2 out of the 3 relevant examples traded for a near the end of the line qb.
Vikes tried that... I'm not against it... but pretty much a roll of the dice on if you make that happen.
Seems more like chance than strategy.
Post #: 3008
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/7/2023 4:36:17 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		In our current discussion we’re limiting it to teams that won the Super Bowl. What happens if we open it up to teams that had a chance to win the Super Bowl. Let’s add the loser of the Super Bowl and the losers of the AFC and NFC championship games as well. Let’s not add teams that win one playoff game in five seasons. I’ll dig into this and post later.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 3009
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 6:58:44 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3010
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 7:18:31 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45027
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 3011
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 8:02:36 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28647
Status: offline 		Need someone to parlay the 12th and 46th picks into rubbish? 1-800-KWESI

Call within the next 10 minutes and Kwesi will personally chat new-age jibberish to you! Hear him say classics like:

- Obviously, in the NFL, there’s margins, and winning or losing can come in, really, weighted opportunities.
- We have a time horizon that we’re planning for and we have our needs in front.
- I always say with a coach, a coach that I would work with, I would work for.
- I study these things. I know them. And if you don’t have them, you don’t win. That’s very binary.
- If it were a seven-game series, yeah, best team wins. That’s ultimately why when you’re team building, you never want to go full Rams.
- I think, at times, your words can be airlifted out of the context of the conversation and placed on the page.
- There’s an oblong ball. There’s variance in the sport.
- My worst thing is probably better than their worst thing.
- Lebron Oh Dark Thirty mode.
- He's improving on special teams!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 10/8/2023 10:02:31 AM >
Post #: 3012
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 9:39:15 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28647
Status: offline 		Wonder if CBS went national with KC v Minn to continue to capitalize on the Taylor Swift connection?
Post #: 3013
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 10:15:59 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Need someone to parlay the 12th and 46th picks into rubbish? 1-800-KWESI

You know … thats the thing … I knew the transition from the old regime was going to be tough sledding. We all knew that. For any new GM HC combo.

But that first draft was not just debilitating, it was a farce. If we had just stood still, who knows, maybe just as bad, maybe not … its a gamble.

The fact that we maneuvered and scrambled into position to get ‘our guys’ … thats embarrassing.

In the ‘new regime potato sack race’ that started in 20022, its like the other regimes got a 1 year head start.
Post #: 3014
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 10:30:16 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Need someone to parlay the 12th and 46th picks into rubbish? 1-800-KWESI

Call within the next 10 minutes and Kwesi will personally chat new-age jibberish to you! Hear him say classics like:

- Obviously, in the NFL, there’s margins, and winning or losing can come in, really, weighted opportunities.
- We have a time horizon that we’re planning for and we have our needs in front.
- I always say with a coach, a coach that I would work with, I would work for.
- I study these things. I know them. And if you don’t have them, you don’t win. That’s very binary.
- If it were a seven-game series, yeah, best team wins. That’s ultimately why when you’re team building, you never want to go full Rams.
- I think, at times, your words can be airlifted out of the context of the conversation and placed on the page.
- There’s an oblong ball. There’s variance in the sport.
- My worst thing is probably better than their worst thing.
- Lebron Oh Dark Thirty mode.
- He's improving on special teams!

Okay … some of that is eerily similar. You must be prancing around in your Ferragamo oxfords while posting.
Post #: 3015
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 10:35:40 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.
Post #: 3016
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 10:55:30 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28647
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Need someone to parlay the 12th and 46th picks into rubbish? 1-800-KWESI

Call within the next 10 minutes and Kwesi will personally chat new-age jibberish to you! Hear him say classics like:

- Obviously, in the NFL, there’s margins, and winning or losing can come in, really, weighted opportunities.
- We have a time horizon that we’re planning for and we have our needs in front.
- I always say with a coach, a coach that I would work with, I would work for.
- I study these things. I know them. And if you don’t have them, you don’t win. That’s very binary.
- If it were a seven-game series, yeah, best team wins. That’s ultimately why when you’re team building, you never want to go full Rams.
- I think, at times, your words can be airlifted out of the context of the conversation and placed on the page.
- There’s an oblong ball. There’s variance in the sport.
- My worst thing is probably better than their worst thing.
- Lebron Oh Dark Thirty mode.
- He's improving on special teams!

Okay … some of that is eerily similar. You must be prancing around in your Ferragamo oxfords while posting.


Those are actual quotes. Except the one quote should say Zero Dark Lebron mode.
Post #: 3017
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 11:15:00 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Need someone to parlay the 12th and 46th picks into rubbish? 1-800-KWESI

Call within the next 10 minutes and Kwesi will personally chat new-age jibberish to you! Hear him say classics like:

- Obviously, in the NFL, there’s margins, and winning or losing can come in, really, weighted opportunities.
- We have a time horizon that we’re planning for and we have our needs in front.
- I always say with a coach, a coach that I would work with, I would work for.
- I study these things. I know them. And if you don’t have them, you don’t win. That’s very binary.
- If it were a seven-game series, yeah, best team wins. That’s ultimately why when you’re team building, you never want to go full Rams.
- I think, at times, your words can be airlifted out of the context of the conversation and placed on the page.
- There’s an oblong ball. There’s variance in the sport.
- My worst thing is probably better than their worst thing.
- Lebron Oh Dark Thirty mode.
- He's improving on special teams!

Okay … some of that is eerily similar. You must be prancing around in your Ferragamo oxfords while posting.


Those are actual quotes. Except the one quote should say Zero Dark Lebron mode.

DOH! I thought it was sarcasm.

Kwesi talk. Its real.
Post #: 3018
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 11:16:05 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.

But is it really too early? The 2022 draft might be the worst in Vikings history.
Post #: 3019
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 12:17:18 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.

But is it really too early? The 2022 draft might be the worst in Vikings history.

2005 was worse.
Post #: 3020
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 1:12:02 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.

But is it really too early? The 2022 draft might be the worst in Vikings history.

2005 was worse.

I don't know. At least Williamson caught a few tds.
Post #: 3021
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 1:44:10 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.

But is it really too early? The 2022 draft might be the worst in Vikings history.

2005 was worse.

I don't know. At least Williamson caught a few tds.

Kwesi's contract is four years, which I guess means they will either move on or extend after three. He must be getting anxious for more productivity from his draftees.
Post #: 3022
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 3:08:10 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.

But is it really too early? The 2022 draft might be the worst in Vikings history.

It would take a miracle for the 2022 draft class to climb to 'just okay.' So no, I don't think its too early to call that a disaster.

Its a big strike against Kwesi. But I think he gets this season and the next offseason through the draft ... for me at least ... to call for his head or campaign for an extension (a deal with lots of dead money pushed back).

Next offseason is going to be loaded with intrigue.
Post #: 3023
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 3:12:15 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 19617
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Shit. I missed where we hired a Top 3 GM.

(Or coach for that matter...)

LOL

Here I thought I fell asleep and we hired Howie Roseman and Mike Tomlin.

I think after Spielman Zimmer, everybody got turned on by the fresh new faces. I did. As if younger automatically equates to modern / forward thinking / cutting edge / aggressive ... meanwhile, Kwesi Kevin are still squeezing at the Spielman Zimmer teat as hard as they can.

One and half years later [when you count offseasons], we are still playing with 9 of 11 Spielman Zimmer pieces on offense. Which if your honest, is 75% of whatever success we are having. Yes, 8 of 11 of the pieces on defense are Kwesi Kevin spawned but that side is a shambles. Maybe shambles is too harsh a word, it being early in the season. 'Not that good for three and half out of four games.'

Based on the fact that the 4-5 best players on the team are from the previous regime, most of those good players and most of the new guys are on short term contracts, our lack of draft augmentation, the dead money coming up ... I'm not seeing an changed / rebooted version of a Spielman Zimmer team for a couple of years.

Risner, Mattison, Akers, Oliver ... most of the noise STILL seems to be about improving the run game / IOL so Cousins will have a chance to play out of his freakin' mind. For 13 more games and then what?

Not very avant-garde if you ask me.

I'm not seeing Kwesi's vision either. From my seat I see:

-Poor drafting
-One year rentals
-No tangible future QB

Meet the new boss the same as the old boss.

I think a lot of posters will be horrified by that comment, ‘13-4 year one!!!’

But yeah - its way premature to call it - just not impressed so far.

But is it really too early? The 2022 draft might be the worst in Vikings history.

It would take a miracle for the 2022 draft class to climb to 'just okay.' So no, I don't think its too early to call that a disaster.

Its a big strike against Kwesi. But I think he gets this season and the next offseason through the draft ... for me at least ... to call for his head or campaign for an extension (a deal with lots of dead money pushed back).

Next offseason is going to be loaded with intrigue.

I'll agree. Lots riding on next years draft. So far he's been very underwhelming.
Post #: 3024
RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/8/2023 7:20:48 PM   
JC2022

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 9/20/2022
Status: offline 		I said years ago Cousins was a bum and a waste of time and that is exactly what he is.

Time to start over from scratch
Post #: 3025
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