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RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/19/2023 7:29:48 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40698
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

“But we just felt like 'Hey, let's give Andrew an opportunity.“

Brian Flores. Super genius.

Post #: 3501

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/19/2023 7:50:59 PM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Post #: 3502

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/19/2023 10:51:03 PM

Kurt B

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/2/2023
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Here is a list of the last 25 years, but not what round they were picked:

Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 56: Matthew Stafford (Cooper Kupp), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 57: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 3 TDs

Just this list alone makes me sick to my stomach.
I was Longing for the days of Pasadena and our blood bath vs the Raiders…
Thought oh all these kids missed Montana, Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Staubach etc……
Gawd how time flies..

Post #: 3503

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 1:05:07 AM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurt B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Here is a list of the last 25 years, but not what round they were picked:

Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 56: Matthew Stafford (Cooper Kupp), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 57: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 3 TDs

Just this list alone makes me sick to my stomach.
I was Longing for the days of Pasadena and our blood bath vs the Raiders…
Thought oh all these kids missed Montana, Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Staubach etc……
Gawd how time flies..

Sounds like words from an old disgruntled Viking fan, with bad knees. Welcome to the club Kurt.

Post #: 3504

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 1:10:17 AM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Post #: 3505

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 7:21:11 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young
Cousins has a no trade clause, that he will NEVER SET ASIDE..
WHY WOULD HE?
His money is guaranteed for years…
What team thinks the mind- numbingly slow sloth is “ the answer” as the missing piece to a deep playoff run..?
His past 12 years of history states, NOPE

It isn’t always about trading Kirk. We have Hall already, draft two more next year and get the comp pick for Kirk when signs as a FA.

Since you have Johansson on BLOCK, you would not know I was responding to the posit, (look it up, it’s not a spelling error) he made to trade cousins, no more no less..
Fixing this team obviously, to me, starts with getting RID of KFC…
which will not happen this season, ( NTC), and if he walk after this season, god forbid the STANS get an extension with MORE guaranteed money, again…). which I SinCerly hope he does… we are still on the hook for over 20$ MILLION in cap money..
I’m all in on drafting a top 5 Qb, every ****ing year untill we get out of the one and done playoff rut we have been in, for the past 14 seasons..
There have been at least two generations of fans who have never seen a “ VIKINGS VS Xxxxxxxx in SUPERBOWL ????????…
My ****ing Alzheimer’s is due to kick in.. I hope the first thing I forget is the KFC failure era of Vikings football..
The OTHER talent on the teams he has “lead” were good enough to win, just not when losing was not an option… like throwing OOB on fourth down , or well short of the sticks..ON FOURTH DOWN IN THE PLAYOFFS….
KFC is and always will be “not capable of winning it all”
Prove me wrong, and I’ll eat crow..
Last season I was willing to debase myself, publicly, if he could do what all you KFC cult members say he can do…win a super bowl…
Who won those “bet the farm”.. bets..
I own the Stans…
KFC can’t be off the Vikings roster then dead cap list fast enough for me AND A LOT OF OTHERS, who are Les vocal about it.

I remember the Denny years and making the playoffs every year.......then he put together a Oline and Randle was a monster plus the HOF WR Corps and had 2-3 qbs that effectively could move the ball. The key wasn't the QB. Loading both sides of the ball with talent in their 20s---that has been the fail.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 10/20/2023 7:27:29 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3506

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 8:10:13 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17930
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think the big key, these days in the NFL is 2 fold:

1. have a great QB (duh)
2. find ways to bend the rules

The Pats 'dynasty' was riddled with those and now, look at the Chiefs. Their RT lines up about 3 yards off the LOS every play so he can't get beat to the outside. I've seen them flagged for it but the refs will, obviously, not penalize them everytime so Reid goes with it. Same with all their movement. No chance everyone is set ever single play but is the league willing to call 40 penalties and risk a total flag fest or just turn a bit of a blind eye when it's not hyper obvious?

I saw the Chiefs about 2-3 weeks ago when I first noticed the RT. It was really blatant. They called him 2 times in about 4-5 plays for it. He "corrected" it somewhat where it was still, technically, a penalty but not as bad. After a series of that he went right back to it and wasn't called the rest of the game.

The NFL wants a dynasty team and will sacrifice the integrity of the game to achieve it. Flags thrown or picked up (in our case) to ensure a Chiefs victory is beyond obvious.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3507

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 8:21:08 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think the big key, these days in the NFL is 2 fold:

1. have a great QB (duh)
2. find ways to bend the rules

The Pats 'dynasty' was riddled with those and now, look at the Chiefs. Their RT lines up about 3 yards off the LOS every play so he can't get beat to the outside. I've seen them flagged for it but the refs will, obviously, not penalize them everytime so Reid goes with it. Same with all their movement. No chance everyone is set ever single play but is the league willing to call 40 penalties and risk a total flag fest or just turn a bit of a blind eye when it's not hyper obvious?

I saw the Chiefs about 2-3 weeks ago when I first noticed the RT. It was really blatant. They called him 2 times in about 4-5 plays for it. He "corrected" it somewhat where it was still, technically, a penalty but not as bad. After a series of that he went right back to it and wasn't called the rest of the game.

The NFL wants a dynasty team and will sacrifice the integrity of the game to achieve it. Flags thrown or picked up (in our case) to ensure a Chiefs victory is beyond obvious.

The swallowing of the flag on the PI was horrible also---just call Def Holding....then the player taking his helmet off; no penalty but fined.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3508

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 8:35:41 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28651
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yeah, the SB winner thing part threw me off. And the most glaring tell, without specific names and which I didn't even notice, was the list had far too many names on it to be 20 years worth of winners. Brady alone had six, Big Ben and Mahomes with a couple, etc.

Post #: 3509

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 9:26:06 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9569
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yeah, the SB winner thing part threw me off. And the most glaring tell, without specific names and which I didn't even notice, was the list had far too many names on it to be 20 years worth of winners. Brady alone had six, Big Ben and Mahomes with a couple, etc.

my surprise was that brady had a 10 year gap between his 3rd and 4th....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3510

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 9:53:47 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19469
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think the big key, these days in the NFL is 2 fold:

1. have a great QB (duh)
2. find ways to bend the rules

The Pats 'dynasty' was riddled with those and now, look at the Chiefs. Their RT lines up about 3 yards off the LOS every play so he can't get beat to the outside. I've seen them flagged for it but the refs will, obviously, not penalize them everytime so Reid goes with it. Same with all their movement. No chance everyone is set ever single play but is the league willing to call 40 penalties and risk a total flag fest or just turn a bit of a blind eye when it's not hyper obvious?

I saw the Chiefs about 2-3 weeks ago when I first noticed the RT. It was really blatant. They called him 2 times in about 4-5 plays for it. He "corrected" it somewhat where it was still, technically, a penalty but not as bad. After a series of that he went right back to it and wasn't called the rest of the game.

The NFL wants a dynasty team and will sacrifice the integrity of the game to achieve it. Flags thrown or picked up (in our case) to ensure a Chiefs victory is beyond obvious.

The swallowing of the flag on the PI was horrible also---just call Def Holding....then the player taking his helmet off; no penalty but fined.

The part of that whole sequence that pissed me off the most was the former player/pundit (don't remember who exactly) talked about how the ref told him to put it on and he did. He talked about how that was "respectful" so the ref gave him some leeway. It was total BS and a cop out. Call the rules as they are meant and not how you can interpret them. There should be no human interpretation involved.

That being said, it had no impact on why we lost but it's another example of how the refs influence games.

Post #: 3511

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 10:14:06 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think the big key, these days in the NFL is 2 fold:

1. have a great QB (duh)
2. find ways to bend the rules

The Pats 'dynasty' was riddled with those and now, look at the Chiefs. Their RT lines up about 3 yards off the LOS every play so he can't get beat to the outside. I've seen them flagged for it but the refs will, obviously, not penalize them everytime so Reid goes with it. Same with all their movement. No chance everyone is set ever single play but is the league willing to call 40 penalties and risk a total flag fest or just turn a bit of a blind eye when it's not hyper obvious?

I saw the Chiefs about 2-3 weeks ago when I first noticed the RT. It was really blatant. They called him 2 times in about 4-5 plays for it. He "corrected" it somewhat where it was still, technically, a penalty but not as bad. After a series of that he went right back to it and wasn't called the rest of the game.

The NFL wants a dynasty team and will sacrifice the integrity of the game to achieve it. Flags thrown or picked up (in our case) to ensure a Chiefs victory is beyond obvious.

The swallowing of the flag on the PI was horrible also---just call Def Holding....then the player taking his helmet off; no penalty but fined.

The part of that whole sequence that pissed me off the most was the former player/pundit (don't remember who exactly) talked about how the ref told him to put it on and he did. He talked about how that was "respectful" so the ref gave him some leeway. It was total BS and a cop out. Call the rules as they are meant and not how you can interpret them. There should be no human interpretation involved.

That being said, it had no impact on why we lost but it's another example of how the refs influence games.

I disagree. Butterfly Effect. How can one possibly know?

Post #: 3512

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 10:20:38 AM

Kurt B

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/2/2023
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurt B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Here is a list of the last 25 years, but not what round they were picked:

Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 56: Matthew Stafford (Cooper Kupp), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 57: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 3 TDs

Just this list alone makes me sick to my stomach.
I was Longing for the days of Pasadena and our blood bath vs the Raiders…
Thought oh all these kids missed Montana, Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Staubach etc……
Gawd how time flies..

Sounds like words from an old disgruntled Viking fan, with bad knees. Welcome to the club Kurt.

Sounds like your right on the button my friend…(Knees haha)
Hell I just realized I was at an advanced age (relatively speaking in football/ dog years) with that first SB on this list.
Watching Vikings/Dolphins SB7 I believe, and getting up to move the rabbit ears for my pops seems like a hundred years ago…
😳
I hope your are good Pete…Hope to see you in the Basketball thread, although it’ll be a tough slouth for my boys perhaps losing 60ish games.

Post #: 3513

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 10:23:50 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Descriptions of our past QBs:

https://x.com/SkolBros/status/1715356820858978725?s=20

Post #: 3514

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 12:46:18 PM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

The no call of PI, holding and taking off the helmet absolutely had an effect on the game.

This may have been a game where the refs favored the Vikings close, knowing they might need to favor the Chiefs in the 4th quarter of a close game, the early penalties give the appearance of a fairly officiated game.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3515

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 5:43:01 PM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yes... should have said "superbowl QBs"...

YOU GOT ME!!!!!

lol

Post #: 3516

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/20/2023 6:19:02 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yes... should have said "superbowl QBs"...

YOU GOT ME!!!!!

lol

I was going to mention it but figured ive caused enough trouble lately. ;/

Post #: 3517

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 12:09:44 AM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yes... should have said "superbowl QBs"...

YOU GOT ME!!!!!

lol

I was going to mention it but figured ive caused enough trouble lately. ;/

heh! no worries... i can take it... i screwed up the wording

Post #: 3518

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 1:52:19 AM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yes... should have said "superbowl QBs"...

YOU GOT ME!!!!!

lol

Wasn't really trying to get you. It was just a little confusing.

Interesting topic though. There are some really good QB's that never won a Super Bowl. There are a few mediocre QB's that won a Super Bowl. Eli Manning won as many as his brother and I don't think it's close as to which one was a better QB. Fouts, Marino, Moon never won one, but I definitely think they were capable to do so. I don't think most teams today would trade their QB for Super Bowl winner Trent Dilfer in his prime.

Eli Manning and Jim McMahon each won two. I don't think either of them were great QB's, even relative to their era.

The game has changed though and it seems unlikely that you can win a Super Bowl today with a mediocre QB.

< Message edited by JT2 -- 10/21/2023 1:58:09 AM >

Post #: 3519

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 2:14:30 AM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

McMahon was a starter for one Super Bowl team, he must have been a backup for a team that won the Super Bowl ?

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3520

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 2:24:38 AM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McMahon was a starter for one Super Bowl team, he must have been a backup for a team that won the Super Bowl ?

Good catch. He only won one. Was the backup to Favre on the other one. You got me.

Post #: 3521

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 8:16:56 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17930
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think the big key, these days in the NFL is 2 fold:

1. have a great QB (duh)
2. find ways to bend the rules

The Pats 'dynasty' was riddled with those and now, look at the Chiefs. Their RT lines up about 3 yards off the LOS every play so he can't get beat to the outside. I've seen them flagged for it but the refs will, obviously, not penalize them everytime so Reid goes with it. Same with all their movement. No chance everyone is set ever single play but is the league willing to call 40 penalties and risk a total flag fest or just turn a bit of a blind eye when it's not hyper obvious?

I saw the Chiefs about 2-3 weeks ago when I first noticed the RT. It was really blatant. They called him 2 times in about 4-5 plays for it. He "corrected" it somewhat where it was still, technically, a penalty but not as bad. After a series of that he went right back to it and wasn't called the rest of the game.

The NFL wants a dynasty team and will sacrifice the integrity of the game to achieve it. Flags thrown or picked up (in our case) to ensure a Chiefs victory is beyond obvious.

The swallowing of the flag on the PI was horrible also---just call Def Holding....then the player taking his helmet off; no penalty but fined.

The part of that whole sequence that pissed me off the most was the former player/pundit (don't remember who exactly) talked about how the ref told him to put it on and he did. He talked about how that was "respectful" so the ref gave him some leeway. It was total BS and a cop out. Call the rules as they are meant and not how you can interpret them. There should be no human interpretation involved.

That being said, it had no impact on why we lost but it's another example of how the refs influence games.

I disagree. Butterfly Effect. How can one possibly know?

The removing the helmet penalty would have been 15 yards better field position. With all things being equal our last play would have been around the 25 yard line instead of the 40. Would we have won? Doubt it but that last drive might have been more managable.

Holding should have been the call and that Chiefs cb did it to Addison 2 plays in a row.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3522

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 8:55:19 AM

Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: JT2

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ORIGINAL: beo

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ORIGINAL: JT2

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ORIGINAL: beo

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme? Jimmy G was a backup. More like they were in the SB.

But it does show some of the low round guys like Brad Johnson were more game manager types.

McNabb, Goff, Newton, Burrow, Hurts, Kap, Delhomme all started in a superbowl.

Jimmy G started in a superbowl and lost to Mahomes.

Your original posit (thanks Dan) was, "Superbowl winners from last 20 years". You missed.

Yes... should have said "superbowl QBs"...

YOU GOT ME!!!!!

lol

Wasn't really trying to get you. It was just a little confusing.

Interesting topic though. There are some really good QB's that never won a Super Bowl. There are a few mediocre QB's that won a Super Bowl. Eli Manning won as many as his brother and I don't think it's close as to which one was a better QB. Fouts, Marino, Moon never won one, but I definitely think they were capable to do so. I don't think most teams today would trade their QB for Super Bowl winner Trent Dilfer in his prime.

Eli Manning and Jim McMahon each won two. I don't think either of them were great QB's, even relative to their era.

The game has changed though and it seems unlikely that you can win a Super Bowl today with a mediocre QB.

Yeah, Fouts was on a loaded team. Looked it up and interestingly his career TD-Int ratio is around 50-50. His best year was in 1981 but the Chargers lost to the Raiders in the AFCCS. Marginal Jim Plunkett was their QB, but they had that defense full of crazies like Matuszak, Sistrunk, Ted Hendricks. Plus some still good vets and other players like Rod Martin. They beat Jaworski's Eagles in the SB, a SB where one fairly non-descript QB was going to get a win.

Soon after, the 49ers era began. Montana with four rings, IMO the epitome of "It". They beat Marino's Dolphins along the way in Marino's first full season where he was league MVP. The Lawrence Taylor led Giants were in the mix as well (Simms has two SB wins).

McMahon and Dilfer IMO get an asterisk because their teams had all-time defenses. Agree on Eli Manning to an extent, but he was money when it counted. That is greatness (although a couple of WRs made some crazy catches).

Post #: 3523

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 9:10:28 AM

Bill Jandro

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they had that defense full of crazies like Matuszak, Sistrunk, Ted Hendricks.

Those were some badass dudes

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3524

RE: General Vikes Talk - 10/21/2023 9:26:20 AM

Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: Ricky J

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think the big key, these days in the NFL is 2 fold:

1. have a great QB (duh)
2. find ways to bend the rules

The Pats 'dynasty' was riddled with those and now, look at the Chiefs. Their RT lines up about 3 yards off the LOS every play so he can't get beat to the outside. I've seen them flagged for it but the refs will, obviously, not penalize them everytime so Reid goes with it. Same with all their movement. No chance everyone is set ever single play but is the league willing to call 40 penalties and risk a total flag fest or just turn a bit of a blind eye when it's not hyper obvious?

I saw the Chiefs about 2-3 weeks ago when I first noticed the RT. It was really blatant. They called him 2 times in about 4-5 plays for it. He "corrected" it somewhat where it was still, technically, a penalty but not as bad. After a series of that he went right back to it and wasn't called the rest of the game.

The NFL wants a dynasty team and will sacrifice the integrity of the game to achieve it. Flags thrown or picked up (in our case) to ensure a Chiefs victory is beyond obvious.

The swallowing of the flag on the PI was horrible also---just call Def Holding....then the player taking his helmet off; no penalty but fined.

The part of that whole sequence that pissed me off the most was the former player/pundit (don't remember who exactly) talked about how the ref told him to put it on and he did. He talked about how that was "respectful" so the ref gave him some leeway. It was total BS and a cop out. Call the rules as they are meant and not how you can interpret them. There should be no human interpretation involved.

That being said, it had no impact on why we lost but it's another example of how the refs influence games.

I disagree. Butterfly Effect. How can one possibly know?

The removing the helmet penalty would have been 15 yards better field position. With all things being equal our last play would have been around the 25 yard line instead of the 40. Would we have won? Doubt it but that last drive might have been more managable.

Holding should have been the call and that Chiefs cb did it to Addison 2 plays in a row.

Thing is, it's not provable but IMO there is always a zero percent chance for all things being equal with 5 minutes remaining in the game!

I wonder more about things like these staggeringly inept 2nd half stats against the Bears in a one-score game:

3 PLAYS, 5 YARDS, 1:24 PUNT
3 PLAYS, 9 YARDS, 1:42 PUNT
6 PLAYS, 16 YARDS, 4:08 MISSED FG
3 PLAYS, 2 YARDS, 1:29 PUNT
3 PLAYS, 3 YARDS, 1:02 PUNT
6 PLAYS, 1 YARD, 1:51 Ran out the clock

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 10/21/2023 9:36:28 AM >

Post #: 3525