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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/17/2023 10:06:37 PM   
timz

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 11/15/2007
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Sorry if this has already been posted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCp_DMcQzsw
Post #: 5051
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 6:07:35 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27855
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer


we needed a leader on the field and didn't have one....

What a bunch of shit!


My apologies for coming off too strong with my response.

I don't agree but I could have just said why don't ... sorry


Weird not one post about the defense needing a leader to step up on a 30th ranked defense. 0.0% heat on Zed, Hunter, PP, Kendricks and Harry for losses last year even though it was obviously a coaching issue prior to KOC on both sides of the ball...but when the team loses games it is the QBs fault and it his leadership to blame....weird crowd around here.


FYI as an example Harry didn't take the shot either and believes in God...he went to Notre Dame in fact.

We are talking about football right? NFL football?

If it were the water polo vikings, you could argue about the horses slipping on the bottom of the pool … but in football, the qb has a slightly bigger impact than a safety.


You know exactly what is being said. Shouldn't be 1000 to 1 posts and would you be jumping on Dobbs last year for instance (because the same thing would have happened with a 30th ranked defense no matter the qb).

Apparently Kirk is to blame for the defense also in 2022 and prior years....

You are trying to conjure up a meaningless controversy over something that is ancient history. Beating a dead horse.

Nobody has ever blamed Kirk for our bad defenses or the top ten defenses that he started with here.

It doesn’t matter. Nobody cares.


When you still feel the pain from being butt-hurt from Cousins' plight, what better post to lead off the day with than one ragging on posters about some new obscure, and yes meaningless, angle.

Weird. You forget easily your view at 1-4. Pretend away.
Reality is 3 years of a bottom four defense was the issue that many ignore for their egos. Cheaper high performing players on defense are just as valuable as offense.

A top 10 defense is the reason of the rise of a team to playoff contention with actually a better chance in the postseason. Now all the Kirk Sans and pro tank posters can do is point to Kirk. That is what I see.

We haven’t even got to what they were saying about Kwesi. Browning versus Dobbs Mullens Hall for example.

Keep pretending you were right you bunch.

It’s weird that some can’t give Kwesi the credit he deserves on getting Dobbs here. We actually have a lot of depth. Another reason we are built to make a run.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 11/18/2023 6:14:16 AM >


_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 5052
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 6:10:01 AM   
BisonFan

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 7/10/2022
Status: offline
Getting excited to how Dobbs and the Vikings perform Sunday night against the Broncos. Dobbs is definitely fun to watch and much different thank Cousins athletically. Let's hope this magical story continues.
Post #: 5053
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 8:16:15 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29154
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timz

Sorry if this has already been posted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCp_DMcQzsw


Cool, thanks! She covered a lot. Saw a remark where he was called the Passtronaut!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/18/2023 8:39:29 AM >
Post #: 5054
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 8:36:11 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29154
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bongbong

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

The fn dude is gone after this season…

It’s been proven that the players and coaches can execute and win WITHOUT paying 2 million dollars a game for what is essentially shit for brains leadership….

We have an actual smart guy playing the exact same position as that useless ****ng was playing, without some of the better offensive players, due to injury.. and lo and behold, Mr. “nobody but some journeyman, bounching around the league” Dobbs, has salvaged the season and made countless fans step back from the “ ****ng it let’s just tank the season ledge”

What’s going on here is that the STANS, can’t and won’t admit that every stat and excuse and metric they were using to pillow hump KFC as the best QB we could have for the money, and under the circumstances, for 6 fn years …

WERE DEAD WRONG

and can’t stomach the proof that plays out every succeeding week that thay were living in a fd up blind reality, of making excuses for a “ nice guy” who is a shitty journeyman Quarterback, raping every team he goes to for “ Christian Money”..

FTFH.

Not since Les Steckle got fired, red McCoombs sold this team, and Butt Fart left forever, have I been as happy as I am now that we have a BETTER, MOBILE QB, leading the team and not moving his lips to memories play calls.

KFC butt hurt Stan’s can whine all day long..

I need a good laugh at the expense of fools.


Nice rant, Dano, thanks for the laughs! (We're mostly on the same page here.)

JJ's situation is somewhat similar in that how valuable is he if we 5-and-0 without him? Is that a random quirk or is it something to actually consider before financially crowning him? I can't decide on that, but what team has won it all with a WR as highest paid player (by a bit)?


Just for fun, we beat Atlanta w/o the big $$ QB, JJ, and Darrisaw. Waste of training table space... who needs em!?
Post #: 5055
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 10:52:04 AM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline
One of the first things the Vikings need to do to be contenders is win the games they are supposed to win. The next two games are games they should win. They aren't roll overs but they should reasonably win both to demonstrate that they are a playoff contender.

One concern with Dobbs is he does have a turnover history, especially interceptions where he can telegraph his throw. He seems to have learned from his starting experience, but this is the one concern I have about his play. He will be playing against some good corners with Denver. (he played against good corners with the Saints so that was encouraging).

Losing Mattison replaces a very good passblocking RB with marginal blockers. Hopefully Dobbs can offset this issue with his increased mobility.

I would not be surprised if the Broncos aggressively blitz Dobbs to force him to make timing/hot reads.
Post #: 5056
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 1:05:40 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9651
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
.
.
final injury report:

out
Akayleb Evans
Jaren Hall

everyone else is questionable or good....mattison was at full participation on Friday....

I think this offseason we should convert Brian Asamoah into a strong safety...he's got very good speed, 4.57/40, and the perfect size...replacement for harrison smith when he retires - if that ever happens....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5057
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 1:12:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29154
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
final injury report:

out
Akayleb Evans
Jaren Hall

everyone else is questionable or good....mattison was at full participation on Friday....

I think this offseason we should convert Brian Asamoah into a strong safety...he's got very good speed, 4.57/40, and the perfect size...replacement for harrison smith when he retires - if that ever happens....


Smith is due $41 million the next two years. Barring a reduced deal, he will be the last of the too expensive past-prime-timers to go.

After that, the Kwesi era of contracts is ushered in. The high $ ex-QB leads that list with his massive void year cap hit. Also in 2024, cap hits include Hock at $14m, Murphy $10m, Phillips $9M, and Davenport $7M (void year).

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/18/2023 1:26:47 PM >
Post #: 5058
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 3:49:42 PM   
DavidAOlson

 

Posts: 19142
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline
Amazing chart of QB pressure rate vs. Time to pressure
https://twitter.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1725952110162813094

League average (median?) is a little over 30%, with 2.6-2.7 seconds. Most of the league has TTP within 2.4-2.8 seconds, and pressure rates vary from about 20-40%.

Kirk and Dobbs@Cardianals were about average on pressure rate, and both had about 2.5 seconds before pressure. Really close. Mahomes is similar on pressure rate, but TTP is a crazy outlier at 3.25 seconds.

But TTP for Dobbs@Vikes is a ridiculous 3.51 seconds.

The O-line deserves huge credit.

_____________________________

I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it. --- Alice
Post #: 5059
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 4:38:33 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41089
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
Justin Jefferson. Not tough. Not needed. Might as well shut him down for the season and trade him.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 5060
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 5:23:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29154
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Justin Jefferson. Not tough. Not needed. Might as well shut him down for the season and trade him.


Right on time... as reliable as a Swiss watch... and train.

You said you manned up in high school with a hammy so with that laughable comparo as your baseline shouldn't the training staff and docs be fired as well? Or is this just all on not-tough Jefferson?

I might be out in left field, but there might be a slight degree of caution bringing back one of the best WRs in the NFL. Maybe it's different to high school ball in Canada, who knows.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/18/2023 5:35:05 PM >
Post #: 5061
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 5:26:46 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10881
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Amazing chart of QB pressure rate vs. Time to pressure
https://twitter.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1725952110162813094

League average (median?) is a little over 30%, with 2.6-2.7 seconds. Most of the league has TTP within 2.4-2.8 seconds, and pressure rates vary from about 20-40%.

Kirk and Dobbs@Cardianals were about average on pressure rate, and both had about 2.5 seconds before pressure. Really close. Mahomes is similar on pressure rate, but TTP is a crazy outlier at 3.25 seconds.

But TTP for Dobbs@Vikes is a ridiculous 3.51 seconds.

The O-line deserves huge credit.


What fortunate timing for Dobbs that our O-line got awesome just as he became quarterback. Kind of like the defense. Haha just kidding.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5062
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 5:29:34 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29154
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Amazing chart of QB pressure rate vs. Time to pressure
https://twitter.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1725952110162813094

League average (median?) is a little over 30%, with 2.6-2.7 seconds. Most of the league has TTP within 2.4-2.8 seconds, and pressure rates vary from about 20-40%.

Kirk and Dobbs@Cardianals were about average on pressure rate, and both had about 2.5 seconds before pressure. Really close. Mahomes is similar on pressure rate, but TTP is a crazy outlier at 3.25 seconds.

But TTP for Dobbs@Vikes is a ridiculous 3.51 seconds.

The O-line deserves huge credit.


Good stuff, but does that factor in Dobbs running around? As you said, an outlier plus more. Is this possibly due to a small sample size coupled with how often he rolled out to buy time?

Seems it's that with the OL being secondary. What was the TTP for Cousins? That could be the indicator related to the OL.
Post #: 5063
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 5:49:33 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10881
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Amazing chart of QB pressure rate vs. Time to pressure
https://twitter.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1725952110162813094

League average (median?) is a little over 30%, with 2.6-2.7 seconds. Most of the league has TTP within 2.4-2.8 seconds, and pressure rates vary from about 20-40%.

Kirk and Dobbs@Cardianals were about average on pressure rate, and both had about 2.5 seconds before pressure. Really close. Mahomes is similar on pressure rate, but TTP is a crazy outlier at 3.25 seconds.

But TTP for Dobbs@Vikes is a ridiculous 3.51 seconds.

The O-line deserves huge credit.


Good stuff, but does that factor in Dobbs running around? As you said, an outlier plus more. Is this possibly due to a small sample size coupled with how often he rolled out to buy time?

Seems it's that with the OL being secondary. What was the TTP for Cousins? That could be the indicator related to the OL.


My understanding is that TTP DOES factor in runnnig around, being elusive, rolling out and such. The whole "qb pressure" is misunderstood. People hear "player-such-and-such" has the highest rate of qb pressure and they immediately think there must be a poor O-line when it can be things like holding the ball too long, being indecisive, or even just being poor at recognizing a blitz before the snap. It can also be a poor O-line or some combination of all those things.

EDIT - I see you asked what Cousins' TTP was. Based on the graph it looks like about 2.4 seconds. Only Stafford, Burrow, Levis, Heincke, Tannehill and Richardson had lower.

< Message edited by David F. -- 11/18/2023 5:52:16 PM >


_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5064
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 5:57:33 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9651
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
.
.
Activated:

Mullins
Joe Juan Williams
Anthony Barr #54

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5065
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/18/2023 6:03:56 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20156
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Activated:

Mullins
Joe Juan Williams
Anthony Barr #54

No Jefferson still?
Post #: 5066
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 6:45:56 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9651
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
final injury report:

out
Akayleb Evans
Jaren Hall

everyone else is questionable or good....mattison was at full participation on Friday....

I think this offseason we should convert Brian Asamoah into a strong safety...he's got very good speed, 4.57/40, and the perfect size...replacement for harrison smith when he retires - if that ever happens....


Smith is due $41 million the next two years. Barring a reduced deal, he will be the last of the too expensive past-prime-timers to go.

After that, the Kwesi era of contracts is ushered in. The high $ ex-QB leads that list with his massive void year cap hit. Also in 2024, cap hits include Hock at $14m, Murphy $10m, Phillips $9M, and Davenport $7M (void year).


next season he's got a $7.8mm dead cap - we can cut him and save $11.4mm - then offer him a 2024 salary of $5mm - still save $6.4mm....

pff safety grades:
bynum #5
Metellus #19
smith #23

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5067
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 8:34:27 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20156
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Justin Jefferson. Not tough. Not needed. Might as well shut him down for the season and trade him.


Right on time... as reliable as a Swiss watch... and train.

You said you manned up in high school with a hammy so with that laughable comparo as your baseline shouldn't the training staff and docs be fired as well? Or is this just all on not-tough Jefferson?

I might be out in left field, but there might be a slight degree of caution bringing back one of the best WRs in the NFL. Maybe it's different to high school ball in Canada, who knows.

I thought I heard recently that it was on Jefferson to make the decision at this point. So this leads me to believe that he's been medically cleared. Could have been misinformation. I'm trying to remember where I heard it from.
Post #: 5068
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 8:50:14 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 41089
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
If he’s been cleared but is choosing to sit you’d better believe he’s saving himself for his next big contract…on another team.

He knows we’ll pay even if he’s gimpy. He wants out.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 5069
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 8:51:53 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45136
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Justin Jefferson. Not tough. Not needed. Might as well shut him down for the season and trade him.


Right on time... as reliable as a Swiss watch... and train.

You said you manned up in high school with a hammy so with that laughable comparo as your baseline shouldn't the training staff and docs be fired as well? Or is this just all on not-tough Jefferson?

I might be out in left field, but there might be a slight degree of caution bringing back one of the best WRs in the NFL. Maybe it's different to high school ball in Canada, who knows.

I thought I heard recently that it was on Jefferson to make the decision at this point. So this leads me to believe that he's been medically cleared. Could have been misinformation. I'm trying to remember where I heard it from.

Prior to this injury, Jefferson played 55 out of 57 regular season games. He hadn't missed a game since his rookie and hadn't missed a playoff game. Over that span, Jefferson has made some great catches through some pretty nasty hits. JJ is plenty tough. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 5070
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 8:57:06 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 23172
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
Experts split on the Vikes/Broncos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Di3Pua37U

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5071
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 9:03:40 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It’s weird that some can’t give Kwesi the credit he deserves on getting Dobbs here. We actually have a lot of depth. Another reason we are built to make a run.


I actually never gave it a thought re who should get credit - mostly I suppose bc I don't think that way too often. However, it is an interesting statement that I bet only few know the real truth about exactly how he got here. Was it all O'Connell picking who he wants and it was up to Kwesi to work out the rest? That'd be my guess. I mean seriously, O'Connell is the guy picking the QB he wants, no?
Post #: 5072
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 9:33:15 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5901
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It’s weird that some can’t give Kwesi the credit he deserves on getting Dobbs here. We actually have a lot of depth. Another reason we are built to make a run.


I actually never gave it a thought re who should get credit - mostly I suppose bc I don't think that way too often. However, it is an interesting statement that I bet only few know the real truth about exactly how he got here. Was it all O'Connell picking who he wants and it was up to Kwesi to work out the rest? That'd be my guess. I mean seriously, O'Connell is the guy picking the QB he wants, no?

Right. Who knows … could be / should be KOC either starting the conversation of which QB to bring in or having final signoff.

Should Kwesi get credit? Of course, he made it happen but this wasn’t wrestling Herbert from the Chargers …

An interesting dynamic to me is Dobbs sharing Cousins’ agent. Doesn’t his replacement influence the team’s future relationship with Cousins, if there is one?

Maybe a decision about Cousins has already been made one way or the other … maybe Dobbs was simply viewed as filler …

The better Dobbs plays … or the longer he plays well … the easier the decision about Cousins gets … which essentially makes his agent partially responsible for negotiating the end of his MN chapter. Maybe.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 11/19/2023 9:37:30 AM >
Post #: 5073
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 10:10:41 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18360
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It’s weird that some can’t give Kwesi the credit he deserves on getting Dobbs here. We actually have a lot of depth. Another reason we are built to make a run.


I actually never gave it a thought re who should get credit - mostly I suppose bc I don't think that way too often. However, it is an interesting statement that I bet only few know the real truth about exactly how he got here. Was it all O'Connell picking who he wants and it was up to Kwesi to work out the rest? That'd be my guess. I mean seriously, O'Connell is the guy picking the QB he wants, no?

Right. Who knows … could be / should be KOC either starting the conversation of which QB to bring in or having final signoff.

Should Kwesi get credit? Of course, he made it happen but this wasn’t wrestling Herbert from the Chargers …

An interesting dynamic to me is Dobbs sharing Cousins’ agent. Doesn’t his replacement influence the team’s future relationship with Cousins, if there is one?

Maybe a decision about Cousins has already been made one way or the other … maybe Dobbs was simply viewed as filler …

The better Dobbs plays … or the longer he plays well … the easier the decision about Cousins gets … which essentially makes his agent partially responsible for negotiating the end of his MN chapter. Maybe.

Most likely an interesting conv to be cont. What would make it the most contentious, just getting to the playoffs? Would one playoff win make it a no brainer? Probably two wins and a NFCCG appearance.

* speaking of odds, the Vikes making the next NFCCG appearance has to be a lock to get to the SB. There's no way they lose 7 in-a-row
Post #: 5074
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/19/2023 10:28:09 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29154
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

It’s weird that some can’t give Kwesi the credit he deserves on getting Dobbs here. We actually have a lot of depth. Another reason we are built to make a run.


I actually never gave it a thought re who should get credit - mostly I suppose bc I don't think that way too often. However, it is an interesting statement that I bet only few know the real truth about exactly how he got here. Was it all O'Connell picking who he wants and it was up to Kwesi to work out the rest? That'd be my guess. I mean seriously, O'Connell is the guy picking the QB he wants, no?

Right. Who knows … could be / should be KOC either starting the conversation of which QB to bring in or having final signoff.

Should Kwesi get credit? Of course, he made it happen but this wasn’t wrestling Herbert from the Chargers …

An interesting dynamic to me is Dobbs sharing Cousins’ agent. Doesn’t his replacement influence the team’s future relationship with Cousins, if there is one?

Maybe a decision about Cousins has already been made one way or the other … maybe Dobbs was simply viewed as filler …

The better Dobbs plays … or the longer he plays well … the easier the decision about Cousins gets … which essentially makes his agent partially responsible for negotiating the end of his MN chapter. Maybe.


Interesting bit about the two QBs sharing the same agent, but you shamelessly weaving in the ex-QBs possible return to make the agent bit valid seems to go against your belief. Have you no inner moral compass??!

Doubt his agent has any sway regardless: "Now a couple weeks removed I can say, 'No, it's not going to be.' I'm excited to write the next chapter and see what God wants to do with it." Sort of like, step aside agent because I'm bringing in the big guy.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/19/2023 10:43:07 AM >
Post #: 5075
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