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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 2:08:06 AM

Daniel Lee Young

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Kirk Cousins: Record against winning teams
Nov 4, 2023 — Kirk Cousins is 14-43 (.246) against teams with a winning record during his entire career.

.527 CAREER WINNING %

The only reason he is above .500 is 13 wins in 2022.

He defines lack of qb talent.

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Post #: 5976

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 2:17:28 AM

Daniel Lee Young

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So when non Kirk QB’s lose or make a bad throw.. it’s on them.. but if Kirk throws an int or fumbles, or fails to clock a ball on first down with no timeouts, it never Kirk’s fault?

Seems the common denominator or root cause would be stupid coaching, creating stupid play calls and stupid decisions by players groomed by stupid coaching.

The difference in quality of ability to coach and adapt to game situations is glaringly apparent on offense VS defense.

Try and tell me the offense has worse players..

What they have is a horrible coach stuck in no man’s land without his co-dependent Kirky Fn Kissing Cousins.

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Post #: 5977

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:03:27 AM

Chris Olson

Posts: 6807
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

More like weak to weak.

lmao

Post #: 5978

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:04:05 AM

Chris Olson

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Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I apologize to Brian Flores for underestimating his defense.

The team we just shut out on Sunday currently has 63 points with almost 9 minutes left to play.

Sign him to a lifetime contract.

Right?!

Feels that much more amazing we shut out that offense in their house after last night

Post #: 5979

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:35:51 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19904
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

It’s on KOC, 100%..

His offense reeks of play not to lose, but throw in a trick play now and then because ..TeeHee.. I can call whatever I want….

His playcalling is downright stupid.

He forces square pegs into round holes on every other fn Down and distance…

His “ script” is predictable .

I see more WTF exclamations in the GD thread, because other people see the same things I see..

KOC is not ready for prime time and his play calling sucks.

JJJJ. MMMM. OOOO

Dobbs almost having 6 INTS against Chicago was on KOC? Throwing high to JJ on a 15 yard slant and nowhere near Nailor on 3rd of 4 amid many other passes was on KOC?

How do you scheme better when the guy isn't accurate and teams can stop him from rolling out right?

Ill hang up and wait.

Maybe by putting a more accurate qb in?

Wait weren’t you on Dobbs side just a game or two ago? They aren’t Kirk guys, none of the three and you complained about Kirk and wanting a mobile QB. You got mobile and now want accurate. Lol

It isn’t KOC. It is an NFL shortage of QB talent.

It's really not that hard Phil. If KOC wants to turn Dobbs into a safe type like Cousins which demands more accuracy for his system then Dobbs isn't the guy. Couldn't you see him get progressively worse the more he was integrated into the system? Dobbs isn't in the Cousins mold and removing the sandlot style renders him useless. Having said that we're still going to need better accuracy to get where we need to go. Dobbs could still be a solid backup in the right situation imo.

Post #: 5980

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:48:01 AM

Bill Jandro

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Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 5981

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:52:58 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

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From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

Post #: 5982

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 8:57:42 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5876
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

I like KOC … hope he grows into his job.

Didn’t realize we were hiring the perfect coach and match for Cousins, not the franchise moving forward. Was hoping for a fresh new creative approach. Got preparation and a rigid marriage to the script … in game adjustment and instinctive reaction are being neutralized.

Which is what makes what Flores has done here shocking. He took the old toothless dog from last year and makes it transform into The Howling each week.

Post #: 5983

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 9:15:53 AM

David F.

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First and foremost - a mutual opponent isn't the cut-and-dried direct comparison some people think it is. We played the Chargers a long time ago when they had a much healthier squad. That said - our squad was a lot healthier back then too. I see a lot of "how did we lose to this chargers team?" posts on twitter. The most common answer is "turnovers" and I think that's a pretty good answer. I also see "our defense wasn't up to speed yet" and this answer is not as good in my opinion. Sure we shut out Las Vegas and the Chargers allowed 49 (remember two of the TDs were defensive scores). But what about the comparison of points allowed to the Chargers? We allowed 28 and the Raiders allowed 21. Our 28 was against the best version the Chargers had to offer on a day when Justin Herbert put on a masterclass of pocket awareness and keeping his eyes downfield to find the open receiver. Sometimes, even with a great defense, you're going to come up against one of the best on their best day. It's days like that where you're either going to lose, having left everything on the field, disappointed but assured you did everything you could - or you're going to win when your defense miraculously gives you the ball back in their territory late in the game. We chose neither of those outcomes that day.

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I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 5984

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 9:49:02 AM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

First and foremost - a mutual opponent isn't the cut-and-dried direct comparison some people think it is. We played the Chargers a long time ago when they had a much healthier squad. That said - our squad was a lot healthier back then too. I see a lot of "how did we lose to this chargers team?" posts on twitter. The most common answer is "turnovers" and I think that's a pretty good answer. I also see "our defense wasn't up to speed yet" and this answer is not as good in my opinion. Sure we shut out Las Vegas and the Chargers allowed 49 (remember two of the TDs were defensive scores). But what about the comparison of points allowed to the Chargers? We allowed 28 and the Raiders allowed 21. Our 28 was against the best version the Chargers had to offer on a day when Justin Herbert put on a masterclass of pocket awareness and keeping his eyes downfield to find the open receiver. Sometimes, even with a great defense, you're going to come up against one of the best on their best day. It's days like that where you're either going to lose, having left everything on the field, disappointed but assured you did everything you could - or you're going to win when your defense miraculously gives you the ball back in their territory late in the game. We chose neither of those outcomes that day.

Outstanding analysis.

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Post #: 5985

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 12:00:16 PM

marty

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KOC will get a pass because he won 13 games last year, and is dealing with using 3 backup QBs this year.

Flores seems quite good as a DC, what was his problem with Tua ? Does Flores struggle with certain personalities?

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Post #: 5986

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 1:12:05 PM

Ricky J

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

KOC will get a pass because he won 13 games last year, and is dealing with using 3 backup QBs this year.

Flores seems quite good as a DC, what was his problem with Tua ? Does Flores struggle with certain personalities?

Don't we all?

Post #: 5987

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 3:58:14 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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My only gripe with KOC is his lack of creativeness. Why not use both? Why can't Dobbs be used as the RPO/pass option a couple times a game ala Hill? He could create problems because Dobbs is a good enough passer to keep the D honest.

Obviously I've never been in inner NFL circles. Maybe it's not feasible to try and implement that this late.

Post #: 5988

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 5:28:55 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

What is the most important position on the field? When Tommy was hurt we had Dils and knew we were in for it. We haven’t had two good backups since Denny was coaching.

3-2 with a backup QB doesn’t get a coach or GM fired. Making the playoffs with a backup qb for the majority of the year doesn’t happen with regularity.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/15/2023 5:30:03 PM >

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Post #: 5989

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 5:41:36 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

My only gripe with KOC is his lack of creativeness. Why not use both? Why can't Dobbs be used as the RPO/pass option a couple times a game ala Hill? He could create problems because Dobbs is a good enough passer to keep the D honest.

Obviously I've never been in inner NFL circles. Maybe it's not feasible to try and implement that this late.

The issue I had with KOC was that every 3rd and manageable, the play call was always s straight drop with Dobbs sitting in the pocket. Dobbs is much more effective in play action and rolling outside the pocket.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:03:36 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

What is the most important position on the field? When Tommy was hurt we had Dils and knew we were in for it. We haven’t had two good backups since Denny was coaching.

3-2 with a backup QB doesn’t get a coach or GM fired. Making the playoffs with a backup qb for the majority of the year doesn’t happen with regularity.

Just nothing but bad luck! The bad luck started with the turnovers. Then the QB and OC/head coach with a chance to make good in the second year together, with a defense that is currently better than any probably thought theyd be, boom. Down goes the QB. It's a Viking thing. This team with KC at QB would be one of the best in the NFC - especially with a couple of key people coming back and some good luck.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 6:07:35 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19904
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

What is the most important position on the field? When Tommy was hurt we had Dils and knew we were in for it. We haven’t had two good backups since Denny was coaching.

3-2 with a backup QB doesn’t get a coach or GM fired. Making the playoffs with a backup qb for the majority of the year doesn’t happen with regularity.

You're moving the goalposts. You said there was absolutely nothing KOC could do about Dobbs accuracy. Why even have a coach? I maintain that he could have pulled him at halftime of the Bears game or at worst at halftime of the Raiders game. The only answer isn't curl up in the fetal posit8on and suck your thumb. I'm concerned that he's slow to do these things. I'm also concerned as to why Dobbs got perpetually worse. I think it's fair to wonder what's going on. Meanwhile Flores guys are tearing it up. I'm not saying KOC deserves to be fired but it's going to be a shame when Flores leaves and succeeds.

Post #: 5992

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 7:45:38 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

What is the most important position on the field? When Tommy was hurt we had Dils and knew we were in for it. We haven’t had two good backups since Denny was coaching.

3-2 with a backup QB doesn’t get a coach or GM fired. Making the playoffs with a backup qb for the majority of the year doesn’t happen with regularity.

You're moving the goalposts. You said there was absolutely nothing KOC could do about Dobbs accuracy. Why even have a coach? I maintain that he could have pulled him at halftime of the Bears game or at worst at halftime of the Raiders game. The only answer isn't curl up in the fetal posit8on and suck your thumb. I'm concerned that he's slow to do these things. I'm also concerned as to why Dobbs got perpetually worse. I think it's fair to wonder what's going on. Meanwhile Flores guys are tearing it up. I'm not saying KOC deserves to be fired but it's going to be a shame when Flores leaves and succeeds.

Are you kidding? How many of those players are 28 year old 3rd or 4 th stringers?

You are moving the goal posts. Dobbs had one win with Arizona. What is wrong with their coach?
You are expecting perfection every week. KC Philly and SF or even Detroit have been week to week with their #1 QB.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/15/2023 7:48:21 PM >

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Post #: 5993

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 8:01:35 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19904
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe we should just pickup a new qb every Wednesday and just throw him out there. Appears the longer KOC spends with a qb the worse they get.

There's one coach on the team that definitely seems innovative and good at getting the most out of players. Meanwhile the offense seems inconsistent no matter who's playing.

What is the most important position on the field? When Tommy was hurt we had Dils and knew we were in for it. We haven’t had two good backups since Denny was coaching.

3-2 with a backup QB doesn’t get a coach or GM fired. Making the playoffs with a backup qb for the majority of the year doesn’t happen with regularity.

You're moving the goalposts. You said there was absolutely nothing KOC could do about Dobbs accuracy. Why even have a coach? I maintain that he could have pulled him at halftime of the Bears game or at worst at halftime of the Raiders game. The only answer isn't curl up in the fetal posit8on and suck your thumb. I'm concerned that he's slow to do these things. I'm also concerned as to why Dobbs got perpetually worse. I think it's fair to wonder what's going on. Meanwhile Flores guys are tearing it up. I'm not saying KOC deserves to be fired but it's going to be a shame when Flores leaves and succeeds.

Are you kidding? How many of those players are 28 year old 3rd or 4 th stringers?

You are moving the goal posts. Dobbs had one win with Arizona. What is wrong with their coach?
You are expecting perfection every week. KC Philly and SF or even Detroit have been week to week with their #1 QB.

There's zero point on having a discussion with you. Where did I say I want perfect? The offense is ass and has been ass for a lot of the year even with Cousins. What were they averaging with Cousins? 20 a game? What are they averaging with the backups? 18? KOC is not this offensive genius and that's obvious. I guess thinking maybe we could score 1 to 2 tds a week from an offensive minded coach is expecting perfection. Look at his scripted offense. It's one of the worst in the league even with Cousins. At some point KOC should be questioned imo. But hey if you love him you love him and that's fine.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 8:04:46 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

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Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
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0 tds in the last 2 games even though the defense gave opportunity after opportunity. Sure KOC has no skin in that!

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 9:16:33 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

0 tds in the last 2 games even though the defense gave opportunity after opportunity. Sure KOC has no skin in that!

Apples to oranges. Ivan Pace isn’t a 3rd string LB. Lot more to work with but yes there is blame on KOC. Mostly for not making a change in the Chicago and LV games.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 9:57:16 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Can't blame Kirk or KOC, they're both nice guys.

And these nice guys will lead the team into mediocrity the next few years.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 10:16:58 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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this place really likes to find blame ... find it and beat it to death

i mean O'onnell has been figured out ... aint no way in the f world he's gonna be a great coach. he's done some shit thats as telling as it gets. i mean ship his out

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 12/15/2023 10:19:18 PM >

Post #: 5998

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 10:24:06 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19904
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

this place really likes to find blame ... find it and beat it to death

i mean O'onnell has been figured out ... aint no way in the f world he's gonna be a great coach. he's done some shit thats as telling as it gets. i mean ship his out

You can call it finding blame. I just think quite possibly we have a better option for head coach who will probably be on another team next year. It's unfortunate but that's what we do. Let good coaches go succeed elsewhere. We're a pretty generous bunch.

Post #: 5999

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/15/2023 10:34:16 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

this place really likes to find blame ... find it and beat it to death

i mean O'onnell has been figured out ... aint no way in the f world he's gonna be a great coach. he's done some shit thats as telling as it gets. i mean ship his out

You can call it finding blame. I just think quite possibly we have a better option for head coach who will probably be on another team next year. It's unfortunate but that's what we do. Let good coaches go succeed elsewhere. We're a pretty generous bunch.

Right, and if you guys get your way, O'Connell will probably be another one - who knows, he sure in the heck didnt get a fair shake here if we let me go now

Post #: 6000