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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 1:43:18 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28615
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

New Orleans playoffs late TD....LUCK
Randy Moss dropping to 21....LUCK

The Cousins to Rudolph TD? If so, that was more or less a football play. Not extremely difficult. Rudolph got away with pushing off, but that kind of thing happens a lot. It's certainly not a key example of the team's all-time luck.

Post #: 6726

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 1:49:19 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28615
Status: offline

Viking-Rams, playoffs. This was a lucky bounce, although they said they practiced it (you can see Bryant sort of waiting for the bounce after his weird aborted semi-pirouette). Not a last second thing but the 10 point swing changed the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VFy9lxXSMg

Post #: 6727

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 1:59:56 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

If so

It’s not. Can’t imagine guessing that one over the Minneapolis Miracle. But here we are…

Post #: 6728

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:14:13 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The 1983 draft had 12 rounds. Miami finally drafted AC in the second to last pick of the draft (334).

I would have used, oohhh, an 11th round pick on him even knowing he was headed to the USFL. But we did take Browner in the 1st round.

AC might not be in the NFL HoF, but with his dominance at Michigan, the USFL, and the NFL, he deserves a first ballot in a hypothetical "Football Hall of Fame".

AC, Millard contributed heavily to one of the purest moments of joy in my life as a fan … watching Montana get benched in a playoff game. Not quite but almost as satisfying as winning that game.

Shot the shit with Montana in a bar when he had just become a star player. Eventually he went back to his table to join Dwight Clark and Fred Dean. Dean had a woman cuddled up next to him... on both sides.

Montana is the anti-Cousins.

For sure.

That's a great story. Now that we don't have to play him, I ofcourse respect what he did but I hated him when he was active ... that's as much about a couple of buddies who worshipped the 49ers at that time, that were brutal.

They've come back out of the woodwork recently. Bastards.

Post #: 6729

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:20:03 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

New Orleans playoffs late TD....LUCK
Randy Moss dropping to 21....LUCK

Sometimes you make a good argument.

Sometimes you throw a shallow, transparent, pathetically agenda-driven, plastic chewbone out there.

All plays are lucky if that play was lucky.

Post #: 6730

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:24:11 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28615
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The 1983 draft had 12 rounds. Miami finally drafted AC in the second to last pick of the draft (334).

I would have used, oohhh, an 11th round pick on him even knowing he was headed to the USFL. But we did take Browner in the 1st round.

AC might not be in the NFL HoF, but with his dominance at Michigan, the USFL, and the NFL, he deserves a first ballot in a hypothetical "Football Hall of Fame".

AC, Millard contributed heavily to one of the purest moments of joy in my life as a fan … watching Montana get benched in a playoff game. Not quite but almost as satisfying as winning that game.

Shot the shit with Montana in a bar when he had just become a star player. Eventually he went back to his table to join Dwight Clark and Fred Dean. Dean had a woman cuddled up next to him... on both sides.

Montana is the anti-Cousins.

For sure.

That's a great story. Now that we don't have to play him, I ofcourse respect what he did but I hated him when he was active ... that's as much about a couple of buddies who worshipped the 49ers at that time, that were brutal.

They've come back out of the woodwork recently. Bastards.

Better them than Philly, Dallas, and a few others. YMMV lol.

Post #: 6731

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:26:28 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Tom would you call the Minneapolis Miracle more bad Defense than luck?

Post #: 6732

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:28:33 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Talk about luck…I can’t speak for everyone but we got to see Brett Favre’s penis while he was an active player with us.

Post #: 6733

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:40:47 PM

Mark C. Johnson

Posts: 1191
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

Brady and Mahomes skew any analysis of recent Super Bowl winner trends. They won so damn many of them it left so few for anyone else.

Mahomes has only won 2

The same number as Eli Manning. and Peyton Manning. More than Drew Brees. and Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre.

Brady won 7 of course.

What's interesting about the names you listed is that all of them, well except Eli perhaps, are sure fire first ballot Hall of Fame selections. Is it possible to win the SB without a great QB? Absolutely. However, the obvious fact is that having a top tier QB makes it more likely your team will win one.

Post #: 6734

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:44:09 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28615
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

Brady and Mahomes skew any analysis of recent Super Bowl winner trends. They won so damn many of them it left so few for anyone else.

Mahomes has only won 2

The same number as Eli Manning. and Peyton Manning. More than Drew Brees. and Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre.

Brady won 7 of course.

What's interesting about the names you listed is that all of them, well except Eli perhaps, are sure fire first ballot Hall of Fame selections. Is it possible to win the SB without a great QB? Absolutely. However, the obvious fact is that having a top tier QB makes it more likely your team will win one.

True, but there is the reverse. A SB win can get a QB over the hump so to speak and into the HoF. Just saying... your point is more apt for the discussion.

Post #: 6735

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:44:17 PM

Mark C. Johnson

Posts: 1191
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Myself and others have said burn it down or tear it down to the studs but I think the general thought would be to clear some bloated contracts, get cap healthy, find a rookie QB that can be your franchise QB. IOW stop what we’ve been doing which is floating in and around the middle.

I agree. What the Vikings have been doing with the QB position hasn't worked. A QB like Cousins simply isn't capable of leading the Vikings to the SB. If they bring him back AND don't draft a young QB, then it speaks volumes as to what the organization considers success, i.e., "playoff contender" but not a "Super Bowl winner".

Post #: 6736

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:52:07 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

What's interesting about the names you listed is that all of them, well except Eli perhaps, are sure fire first ballot Hall of Fame selections. Is it possible to win the SB without a great QB? Absolutely. However, the obvious fact is that having a top tier QB makes it more likely your team will win one.

Plus a great QB is going to make you a contender (or at least on the cusp) most years. Otherwise you're more likely just hoping for a "lightning in a bottle" season.

Post #: 6737

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 2:57:33 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Talk about luck…I can’t speak for everyone but we got to see Brett Favre’s penis while he was an active player with us.

I didn't look.

Post #: 6738

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 3:02:25 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The 1983 draft had 12 rounds. Miami finally drafted AC in the second to last pick of the draft (334).

I would have used, oohhh, an 11th round pick on him even knowing he was headed to the USFL. But we did take Browner in the 1st round.

AC might not be in the NFL HoF, but with his dominance at Michigan, the USFL, and the NFL, he deserves a first ballot in a hypothetical "Football Hall of Fame".

AC, Millard contributed heavily to one of the purest moments of joy in my life as a fan … watching Montana get benched in a playoff game. Not quite but almost as satisfying as winning that game.

Shot the shit with Montana in a bar when he had just become a star player. Eventually he went back to his table to join Dwight Clark and Fred Dean. Dean had a woman cuddled up next to him... on both sides.

Montana is the anti-Cousins.

For sure.

That's a great story. Now that we don't have to play him, I ofcourse respect what he did but I hated him when he was active ... that's as much about a couple of buddies who worshipped the 49ers at that time, that were brutal.

They've come back out of the woodwork recently. Bastards.

Better them than Philly, Dallas, and a few others. YMMV lol.

You stomped me there.

Bad 49er fans vs obnoxious devil worshipping heathens.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 1/5/2024 4:27:18 PM >

Post #: 6739

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 3:26:07 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Tom would you call the Minneapolis Miracle more bad Defense than luck?

IMO the throw and catch were very good given the circumstances but not miraculous.

IMO a defender in good position should have hit Diggs before his feet touched the ground, stopping his progress and keeping the clock running. I don't think that's asking too much of a defender. Diggs should have been an easy target - in the air, his back to the defender ...

So its bad defense ... Williams - I think - got there a hair early and whiffed on purpose thinking the one thing he couldn't do was get a penalty. Or he just whiffed which was tremendously bad defense.

The bad timing on the hit leading to a walk off TD ... when everybody was praying for a sideline catch / stop the clock / field goal try ... you can't say luck wasn't part of it. It never ever happens like that. Times ten for Vikings fans.

I guess I'm too much of a wuss to call it. How about you?

Post #: 6740

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 3:36:27 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40689
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I think it’s a miracle we won but the play wasn’t miraculous or lucky. It was a bad play by the DB.

Post #: 6741

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 4:24:11 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I think it’s a miracle we won but the play wasn’t miraculous or lucky. It was a bad play by the DB.

I'm afraid I look at everything this team does lately through a hard luck filter.

Even our great luck, like last year, floats back up to the surface at some point and stares at you with dead fish eyes.

Post #: 6742

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 5:11:20 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14013
Status: offline

Last season did us Zero favors..

Incredible luck camouflaged a whole lot of weaknesses..

Back up QB is the least of our problems..

Moving on from cap sucking “ veterans” who don’t make plays or disappear when it matters the most is top priority.

Until management recognizes the flaws in the 60 years of bullshit “almost”, and makes a serious effort at QBOTF and building solid offensive and defensive lines…

We will forever be wannabes…

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 1/5/2024 5:39:50 PM >

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 6743

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 5:41:19 PM

beo

Posts: 2394
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

New Orleans playoffs late TD....LUCK
Randy Moss dropping to 21....LUCK

Championship game/Superbowl.... zero luck

Post #: 6744

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 5:41:58 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

Kevin O’Connell said on Friday that Joshua Dobbs will serve as the backup to Mullens when the Vikings head to Ford Field on Sunday for the regular season finale.

Was KOC completely wrong about Hall? He started him in a "must win" game last week. Now he's the Emergency QB" after one half of play.

Post #: 6745

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 5:54:38 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Kevin O’Connell said on Friday that Joshua Dobbs will serve as the backup to Mullens when the Vikings head to Ford Field on Sunday for the regular season finale.

Was KOC completely wrong about Hall? He started him in a "must win" game last week. Now he's the Emergency QB" after one half of play.

It really makes me nervous about the position moving forward. If they do, finally, draft a guy 1st round and get it wrong

Track record isn't good so far. KC extension and hand picking Mullens as his backup and then drafting a guy that you have to pull after 1 half??? Yikes. These are hand picked players. They weren't inherited.

Post #: 6746

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/5/2024 6:18:48 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28615
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

New Orleans playoffs late TD....LUCK
Randy Moss dropping to 21....LUCK

Championship game/Superbowl.... zero luck

FG kickers alone: The Blair Walsh Project. Gary Choke Anderson.

Post #: 6747

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/6/2024 4:13:05 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Kevin O’Connell said on Friday that Joshua Dobbs will serve as the backup to Mullens when the Vikings head to Ford Field on Sunday for the regular season finale.

Was KOC completely wrong about Hall? He started him in a "must win" game last week. Now he's the Emergency QB" after one half of play.

It really makes me nervous about the position moving forward. If they do, finally, draft a guy 1st round and get it wrong

Track record isn't good so far. KC extension and hand picking Mullens as his backup and then drafting a guy that you have to pull after 1 half??? Yikes. These are hand picked players. They weren't inherited.

we need to draft a QB that can make plays with his legs when needed, too...keep dobbs as #2, and draft another QB late in the draft....

just go with the new guy in 2024 - beef up the middle of both lines and we're ready to go....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 6748

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/6/2024 7:39:16 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22987
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark C. Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

I'll give you this. If the Bears go on to win three SBs with a strong influence from the Carolina trade, I'll jump to your side of the argument.

I've no idea if they will win three SB's...nobody does. But, they've done an excellent job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They already have Fields, they have Carolina's No. 1 pick, their own first round pick and more cap space than almost every team in the league.

I've no idea if the Vikings will win three SB's nobody does. But, they've done a very poor job of putting themselves in position to substantially improve. They have no QB on the roster for next year, they will pick in the teens and will need to be lucky to have a QB drop to them (i.e., no plan) and they have less cap space than almost every team in the league.

As of today, Poles > Kwesi.

Devils advocate... which team has blown things up and reaped a superbowl in the aftermath?

Seems like recent superbowl winners have done it by being continuously competitive and hitting on putting the right pieces together AND getting some luck.
(starting with a stud QB)

Vikes have never gotten the luck part... for sure... ever.

New Orleans playoffs late TD....LUCK
Randy Moss dropping to 21....LUCK

Sometimes you make a good argument.

Sometimes you throw a shallow, transparent, pathetically agenda-driven, plastic chewbone out there.

All plays are lucky if that play was lucky.

TOTAL LUCK. Chuck it up there with 10 seconds left. Two defenders run themselves out of the play. Walk into the end zone. It was one of the luckiest set of events I've ever seen in professional sports. The safety from New Orleans will be having nightmares about that play the rest of his life.

Now, they may have won the game regardless of whether he scored or not. They were down one point and just needed a field goal. But the idea of getting a touchdown from 60 yards out on the final play has a lot of luck and brain-deadedness involved.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 1/6/2024 7:41:16 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 6749

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/6/2024 7:43:05 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22987
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Kevin O’Connell said on Friday that Joshua Dobbs will serve as the backup to Mullens when the Vikings head to Ford Field on Sunday for the regular season finale.

Was KOC completely wrong about Hall? He started him in a "must win" game last week. Now he's the Emergency QB" after one half of play.

In my world, we call that a knee-jerk reaction. He watches the kid in practice every day. He should know whether or not the kid can play in the NFL. At the very least it could be considered naive.

It also showed that he is concerned about what the fan base thinks, which is silly. The fan base was calling to give Hall a chance. That's why quarterbacks are coach killers. All the good will that O'Connell earned in 2022 is now out the window. What have you done for me lately?

< Message edited by Brad H -- 1/6/2024 7:55:40 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 6750