quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

That’s a solid counter beo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

For the shop JJ crowd...
(which is a legit strategy, he could be at his peak value this off season, save cap, etc... I get it)

Here is my counter argument.

Say you get a couple of 1st round picks.

2015. Trae Waynes
2016. Laquon Treadwell
2017 no pick
2018 Mike Hughes
2019 Garrett Bradbury
2020 Justin Jefferson
2020 Jeff gladney
2021 Darrisaw
2022 Cine
2023 Addison

Are there 2 guys on that list that trade for JJ?
Your chances of missing are SIGNIFICANT.

JJ is a known.
JJ produces even with Mullins at qb.

Get a cheap qb (rookie would be my first choice).
The expense of JJ is palatable with a rookie qb.

I don't know that you improve the team by getting rid of your best young player.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

2016. Laquon Treadwell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

2016. Laquon Treadwell

Really surprised to see him still in uniform on Sat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

2016. Laquon Treadwell

Really surprised to see him still in uniform on Sat.

I noticed that, too! Amazing. He let a pass go right through his hands. It reminded me of the old days with us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

For the shop JJ crowd...
(which is a legit strategy, he could be at his peak value this off season, save cap, etc... I get it)

Here is my counter argument.

Say you get a couple of 1st round picks.

2015. Trae Waynes
2016. Laquon Treadwell
2017 no pick
2018 Mike Hughes
2019 Garrett Bradbury
2020 Justin Jefferson
2020 Jeff gladney
2021 Darrisaw
2022 Cine
2023 Addison

Are there 2 guys on that list that trade for JJ?
Your chances of missing are SIGNIFICANT.

JJ is a known.
JJ produces even with Mullins at qb.

Get a cheap qb (rookie would be my first choice).
The expense of JJ is palatable with a rookie qb.

I don't know that you improve the team by getting rid of your best young player.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

For the shop JJ crowd...
(which is a legit strategy, he could be at his peak value this off season, save cap, etc... I get it)

Here is my counter argument.

Say you get a couple of 1st round picks.

2015. Trae Waynes
2016. Laquon Treadwell
2017 no pick
2018 Mike Hughes
2019 Garrett Bradbury
2020 Justin Jefferson
2020 Jeff gladney
2021 Darrisaw
2022 Cine
2023 Addison

Are there 2 guys on that list that trade for JJ?
Your chances of missing are SIGNIFICANT.

JJ is a known.
JJ produces even with Mullins at qb.

Get a cheap qb (rookie would be my first choice).
The expense of JJ is palatable with a rookie qb.

I don't know that you improve the team by getting rid of your best young player.

This is a fantastic post. I think we need to add in one more thing to it though. If we trade JJ we don’t just get the draft picks we also get the cap space which equals even more players. The 30 mil in space could equal a great guard and a decent corner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

For the shop JJ crowd...
(which is a legit strategy, he could be at his peak value this off season, save cap, etc... I get it)

Here is my counter argument.

Say you get a couple of 1st round picks.

2015. Trae Waynes
2016. Laquon Treadwell
2017 no pick
2018 Mike Hughes
2019 Garrett Bradbury
2020 Justin Jefferson
2020 Jeff gladney
2021 Darrisaw
2022 Cine
2023 Addison

Are there 2 guys on that list that trade for JJ?
Your chances of missing are SIGNIFICANT.

JJ is a known.
JJ produces even with Mullins at qb.

Get a cheap qb (rookie would be my first choice).
The expense of JJ is palatable with a rookie qb.

I don't know that you improve the team by getting rid of your best young player.

This is a fantastic post. I think we need to add in one more thing to it though. If we trade JJ we don’t just get the draft picks we also get the cap space which equals even more players. The 30 mil in space could equal a great guard and a decent corner.

Very true... that is the other side of the coin... adding players with money saved on moving JJ.

However, I'd bet that history might say FA additions are 50/50 chance of working out as well.
(meaning you sign 2 significant contracts... one seems to pay off, one is disappointing)

Would have to look into that more I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I agree Dan. I don't think anyone would argue (outside of the chance that either Penix/Daniels/rookie comes in and lights it up) that he gives us the best chance for the next 2 years but who cares? Best chance at what? Sneaking in to the playoffs and getting smoked??

He has 1 playoff win in 6 years. Move on and eat the cap for next year. We aren't doing anything anyway next year.

As much as I love what Hunter can do, let him go too. KAM was stupid not to trade him. Can he still produce for 2-3 years? Probably but again, so what? We have a 12-16 sack guy on a team that can barely make the playoffs? Big whoop.

I would also do one of the following depending on what they do with QB.

A. You get Pinex: Keep O'Neil and trade Darrisaw
B. You stay with some form of a RHQB. Sign Darrisaw to an extension and resign Quesenberry. Trade O'Neil.

We need to start thinking 2-3 years down the line and stop with this bullshit that we are 1 piece away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

Justin Jefferson is a generational player. We won the lottery here. You don't trade him for more lottery tickets. THis is like talking about trading Michael Jorden or Wayne Gretzky at their prime. You just don't do it. If they were stupid enough to trade JJ like we traded Moss, I will quit being a Vikings fan and I have been a fan for 57 years. JJ is like Giannis of the Bucks (I am a bucks fan). As a Bucks fan, I waited 50 years for such a player. The JJ discussion would be like trading Giannis. In terms of what will they actually do, they will sign JJ to a contract that makes him the highest paid WR in the league the same way they made Hoc the highest paid TE. That is the right move. Second, the salary cap is a fantasy number that can always be pushed into the future IF YOU HAVE COOPERATIVE PLAYERS. Essentially, every year you delay a cap hit, you reduce its actual hit by around 8-10% because of the expected annual increases in the salary cap. Kirk Cousins will have a current legacy cap hit of around $28 million. The "net cost" in 2024 if we sign him for $40 million is $12 million. That is not an unreasonable cost for even a bridge QB. Third, a lot of what Flores did was with smoke and mirrors because he had little talent to work with. This is a huge problem that can only be fixed through SEVERAL good drafts, not free agency. A strong offense can hopefully give us some hope and entertainment while we work to upgrade the overall talent of the team especially on defense. The place to get salary cap savings is by getting rid of Harrison Smith, Oniel and Phillips and gamble on developing young drafted players. That is a big gamble. A tougher question is whether we decide that Kwesi and KOC are the right team to lead this long-term rebuild.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

Justin Jefferson is a generational player. We won the lottery here. You don't trade him for more lottery tickets. THis is like talking about trading Michael Jorden or Wayne Gretzky at their prime. You just don't do it. If they were stupid enough to trade JJ like we traded Moss, I will quit being a Vikings fan and I have been a fan for 57 years. JJ is like Giannis of the Bucks (I am a bucks fan). As a Bucks fan, I waited 50 years for such a player. The JJ discussion would be like trading Giannis. In terms of what will they actually do, they will sign JJ to a contract that makes him the highest paid WR in the league the same way they made Hoc the highest paid TE. That is the right move. Second, the salary cap is a fantasy number that can always be pushed into the future IF YOU HAVE COOPERATIVE PLAYERS. Essentially, every year you delay a cap hit, you reduce its actual hit by around 8-10% because of the expected annual increases in the salary cap. Kirk Cousins will have a current legacy cap hit of around $28 million. The "net cost" in 2024 if we sign him for $40 million is $12 million. That is not an unreasonable cost for even a bridge QB. Third, a lot of what Flores did was with smoke and mirrors because he had little talent to work with. This is a huge problem that can only be fixed through SEVERAL good drafts, not free agency. A strong offense can hopefully give us some hope and entertainment while we work to upgrade the overall talent of the team especially on defense. The place to get salary cap savings is by getting rid of Harrison Smith, Oniel and Phillips and gamble on developing young drafted players. That is a big gamble. A tougher question is whether we decide that Kwesi and KOC are the right team to lead this long-term rebuild.

I think we all agree QB is the most important position.

Why trade away a generational talent who will help our new young QBOTF develop? It doesn't make sense. The cap will go up every year and eventually we will be out of the dead cap problem we have. Pay JJ

If we need capital to go up and get Daniels or Penix, dip into the future drafts, maybe throw in O'Neill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I agree Dan. I don't think anyone would argue (outside of the chance that either Penix/Daniels/rookie comes in and lights it up) that he gives us the best chance for the next 2 years but who cares? Best chance at what? Sneaking in to the playoffs and getting smoked??

He has 1 playoff win in 6 years. Move on and eat the cap for next year. We aren't doing anything anyway next year.

As much as I love what Hunter can do, let him go too. KAM was stupid not to trade him. Can he still produce for 2-3 years? Probably but again, so what? We have a 12-16 sack guy on a team that can barely make the playoffs? Big whoop.

I would also do one of the following depending on what they do with QB.

A. You get Pinex: Keep O'Neil and trade Darrisaw
B. You stay with some form of a RHQB. Sign Darrisaw to an extension and resign Quesenberry. Trade O'Neil.

We need to start thinking 2-3 years down the line and stop with this bullshit that we are 1 piece away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

IF they drafted Penix, I would move Darrisaw to RT and trade O'Neill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Michael Jordon and Wayne Gretzky won a lot of championships in their prime. JJ’s appeared in one playoff game, didn’t do much, and we lost.

Picks to land you a franchise QB and let’s say a starting corner would do a lot more for this team.