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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 6:43:10 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		IMO Signing Cousins is a sure sign of two guys desperate to squeeze as many victories as they can out of this roster. Thats scrambling to keep your job.

That has nothing to do with building a playoff caliber team.
Post #: 7651
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 6:56:16 PM   
Karl Juhnke


Posts: 12884
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Not a chance.. going rate for mediocre?

GFYS, KFC..
90 million?



I'm not saying the amount is a statement of his worth. I'm saying that's the current QB market. Check 2024 QB salaries.

There are different numbers to compare … cap hit / salary / guaranteed money …

maybe someone with more skill - knowledge can correct me …

but if Cousins is getting paid in the 4-7 range of QBs over the last couple of years, its simply not commensurate with his results, with his age, with our situation.

The ‘going rate’ only works if you can afford it … we can’t - the market value doesn’t matter. Or shouldn’t.


Again, I'm not stating an opinion on whether Kwesi should pay that kind of money. Probably not. I'm just saying it's no surprise that around $90 mil for two years as Kirk and agent's starting price in any negotiation is not surprising in the least.
Post #: 7652
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:03:44 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Not a chance.. going rate for mediocre?

GFYS, KFC..
90 million?



I'm not saying the amount is a statement of his worth. I'm saying that's the current QB market. Check 2024 QB salaries.


Right, it's the market. And about 6 of the top 15 contracts in that market are bad. Hopefully Kwesi doesn't join that group of stupid GMs.
Post #: 7653
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:04:40 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2291
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline 		I'm kind of happy to hear the $90 mil number.

I think it makes it a lot less likely Kirk is resigned here.

This team no longer has a window with an expensive qb. (imo)
Defense needs to be rebuilt.

OL could use a mauler interior lineman.

Need to find another path now.

< Message edited by beo -- 1/29/2024 7:05:42 PM >
Post #: 7654
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:13:04 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Not a chance.. going rate for mediocre?

GFYS, KFC..
90 million?



I'm not saying the amount is a statement of his worth. I'm saying that's the current QB market. Check 2024 QB salaries.

There are different numbers to compare … cap hit / salary / guaranteed money …

maybe someone with more skill - knowledge can correct me …

but if Cousins is getting paid in the 4-7 range of QBs over the last couple of years, its simply not commensurate with his results, with his age, with our situation.

The ‘going rate’ only works if you can afford it … we can’t - the market value doesn’t matter. Or shouldn’t.


Again, I'm not stating an opinion on whether Kwesi should pay that kind of money. Probably not. I'm just saying it's no surprise that around $90 mil for two years as Kirk and agent's starting price in any negotiation is not surprising in the least.

Yes I understand your comment. These numbers are what the market dictates as ‘fair’ …

From my point of view, he has an inflated view of his market. Its not based on results, its based on - we are at war with 31 other teams and Cousins has been war profiteering on our desperate need for a good QB.

Time to let someone else overpay for his services. Even if thats, as you say, his market value.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 1/29/2024 7:14:10 PM >
Post #: 7655
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:25:18 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline 		Package up his 28.5 mil dead cap (call it 30 mil) with the new 90 million, fully guaranteed, two-year contract.

2024 - 15 million
2025 - 15 million
2026 - 30 million (void year)
2027 - 30 million (void year)
2028 - 30 million (void year)

Sign guys from Prairie View to start.

So, we can afford him! And the cool thing is if he leaves after 2025, the entire 90 million comes due. We can't have that, so he'll be extended by the new GM.
Post #: 7656
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:39:40 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline 		The NFL's first Big Three (aka The Fiscally Responsible Instant Contenders)

Cousins 45 mil
JJ 33 mil
Darrisaw 30 mil

Hunter & Davenport dead cap 22 mil

Total: 130 million. Over half of the projected 2024 cap but don't worry, it always increases.

The other 50 players can fight over the remaining 120 million. Maybe give them equal $2.4 million contracts.

Whoops, forgot O'Neill. Call it 98 million for 49 players, an even $2 million each.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/29/2024 7:47:08 PM >
Post #: 7657
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:46:09 PM  2 votes
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline 		.
Post #: 7658
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:47:01 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2291
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The NFL's first Big Three (aka The Instant Contenders)

Cousins 45 mil
JJ 33 mil
Darrisaw 30 mil

Hunter & Davenport dead cap 22 mil

Total: 130 million. Over half of the projected 2024 cap but don't worry, it always increases.

The other 50 players can fight over the remaining 120 million. Maybe give them equal $2.4 million contracts.

Whoops, forgot O'Neill. Call it 98 million for 49 players, an even $2 million each.


Well JJ and Darrisaw might avg those numbers but that won't be the initial hit in the first year.

If they don't sign Kirk.
If resign JJ & Darrisaw with lower cap numbers in early years.

Then they could end up having a decent pile of free agent money in the offseason.
Post #: 7659
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:54:09 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The NFL's first Big Three (aka The Instant Contenders)

Cousins 45 mil
JJ 33 mil
Darrisaw 30 mil

Hunter & Davenport dead cap 22 mil

Total: 130 million. Over half of the projected 2024 cap but don't worry, it always increases.

The other 50 players can fight over the remaining 120 million. Maybe give them equal $2.4 million contracts.

Whoops, forgot O'Neill. Call it 98 million for 49 players, an even $2 million each.


Well JJ and Darrisaw might avg those numbers but that won't be the initial hit in the first year.

If they don't sign Kirk.
If resign JJ & Darrisaw with lower cap numbers in early years.

Then they could end up having a decent pile of free agent money in the offseason.


I had just changed it to the Fiscally Responsible Instant Contenders

Some players have extensions that are spread out fairly equally. For example, the Giants Andrew Thomas. O'Neill too I think, before they started borrowing cap from his contract. If they don't sign Cousins, perhaps they could pay more now during the non-contending years so as to have more cap when they need it during the (fingers crossed) contending years.

There used to be a time when Brzez front-loaded contracts. With the latter Spielman and now Kwesi, those days are gone.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/29/2024 8:05:25 PM >
Post #: 7660
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:57:17 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18345
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online 		Todd, i can't find a link from KFAN , do you have one?

I can see that, "Livvy Dunne Raises Concerns After Second Straight Missed Gymnastics Meet" and "Bill Belichick's Surprising Potential New Gig Revealed" and of course Taylor Swift is in the news but nothing on Cousins.
Post #: 7661
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 7:59:04 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40183
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online 		I didn’t verify a link. Just copied and pasted from a Reddit post. Sorry.
Post #: 7662
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:16:29 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline 		What about plowing a lot of cap into JJ's and Darrisaw's first two years with a QB on a rookie contract in order to have more cap later?

Then again, cap is insignificant if you can't draft.
Post #: 7663
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:31:32 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17895
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Detroit went into the 2nd half up 17 points and had (I believe) 133 rushing yards in the first half. They chose to run the ball eight times in the second half. Count them - eight attempts. Dan "emotional gamble" Campbell lost them that game.

Campbell might the only guy with a 20 at a blackjack table that yells "hit me"

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 7664
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:33:22 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I didn’t verify a link. Just copied and pasted from a Reddit post. Sorry.

That's almost April Fools territory.
Post #: 7665
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:35:00 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18345
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I didn’t verify a link. Just copied and pasted from a Reddit post. Sorry.

NP

I haven't been on Twitter since I accidentally cleared my passwords but my son said he saw "40/year" so it's out there.

Personally, it disappoints me!
Post #: 7666
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:38:57 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40183
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I didn’t verify a link. Just copied and pasted from a Reddit post. Sorry.

That's almost April Fools territory.


Yeah. It’s out there though.
Post #: 7667
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:40:21 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I didn’t verify a link. Just copied and pasted from a Reddit post. Sorry.

That's almost April Fools territory.


Yeah. It’s out there though.

Definitely.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/report-kirk-cousins-asking-price-will-be-too-much-vikings

Will Ragatz, Sports illustrated - 6 hours ago

According to a report from veteran columnist Charley Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press, Kirk Cousins is going to price himself out of the Vikings' plans this offseason.

"The buzz now is that it will take $90 million guaranteed for two years, despite that he’s still not yet fully recovered from Achilles surgery in November, to sign free agent QB Kirk Cousins," Walters wrote. "If that’s the case, he certainly won’t get that from the Vikings."

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 1/29/2024 8:41:29 PM >
Post #: 7668
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:42:11 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Its still just whispers and innuendo.
Post #: 7669
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:43:30 PM  1 votes
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		nm

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 1/29/2024 8:56:52 PM >
Post #: 7670
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 8:59:09 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

nm



It was good. 2022 but might as well run it back every two years.
Post #: 7671
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/29/2024 9:27:01 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5824
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

nm



It was good. 2022 but might as well run it back every two years.

No kidding.

Not sure Kwesi can play the Cousins shell game well enough to get it done this time.

Brzezinski however ...
Post #: 7672
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2024 12:54:37 AM   
JT2

 

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Not a chance.. going rate for mediocre?

GFYS, KFC..
90 million?



I'm not saying the amount is a statement of his worth. I'm saying that's the current QB market. Check 2024 QB salaries.


Is the market factoring in a 36 year old QB, coming off an achilles injury, with one playoff win under his belt?
Post #: 7673
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2024 1:04:51 AM   
JT2

 

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

Reports were last year that he was willing to give us a hometown discount of $37.5 mil/year instead of $40 mil/year, but he wanted all three years guaranteed, and Kwesi was only willing to guarantee two.



Thiose numbers make sense. There is some expense and hassle to moving to a new team and city vs staying put. But any 'hometown discount' more than 5-10% makes no sense. It's an insult to the player to ask him to take more discount and there's no reason he should do it.


Cousins has moved, and moved and moved before. There are also perks that come with moving to a different team that will offset the hassle and expense of moving. If he ended up in Atlanta, his agents would have local endorsements in place (far more lucrative than what he has here) before his Gulfstream G500 even landed at Hartsfield-Jackson.
Post #: 7674
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2024 5:52:49 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28109
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Not a chance.. going rate for mediocre?

GFYS, KFC..
90 million?



I'm not saying the amount is a statement of his worth. I'm saying that's the current QB market. Check 2024 QB salaries.


Is the market factoring in a 36 year old QB, coming off an achilles injury, with one playoff win under his belt?


https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback

Speaking of $45 million, some guy named Mahomes is averaging that.

At $40 million, you've got Stafford, Prescott, Daniel Jones. Outside of one year by Stafford, that's a good group of losers for Cousins to slot into.
Post #: 7675
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