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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 9:39:08 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Post #: 7701

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 9:59:20 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40668
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

I believe it. Too bad god had other plans.

Post #: 7702

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:04:10 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If the Vikings are not looking at a long-term solution at quarterback, they are not a serious franchise.

Exhibit A would be the Packers. They drafted Rodgers in the first and groomed him for 3 years behind Farve. They drafted Love in the first round and groomed him for 3 years behind Rodgers.

Both times, the Packers were criticized for taking a QB in the first round when they should be bolstering the roster around their HOF QB. After year 1 with Love at the helm, I don't think they regret either decision.

I contend that their strategy, being way bolder and forward thinking than ours during the same period, is still too conservative. They could have moved on from Favre and Rodgers a year earlier each. That said, they were still able to trade both of them and receive compensation. We never drafted, therefore couldn’t trade our guy for anything, and now might pay him yet again and run it all back again. Their way netted two superbowl wins and should have been more. Our way netted one theoretical make believe MVP award.

Run it back originated as another way to say go for another championship.

The human myth went 4-4 before he was summarily relegated to the locker room. Guess we could run back his .500 record.

Post #: 7703

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:07:08 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If the Vikings are not looking at a long-term solution at quarterback, they are not a serious franchise.

I’m not sure we’ve learned anything.

It feels like our intense internal discussions are about how to continue to suckle at the Cousins teat* while waiting for the perfect prospect to fall into our lap (now in its third offseason).

Not, how do we commit to the long term solution first.

(*because really ... if we’re honest with ourselves ... being a Cousins sycophant is the strongest form of suction)

Kwesi may have learned something. And that was telling Cousins to go pound sand regarding his latest well-structured contract proposal.

Post #: 7704

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:13:15 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If the Vikings are not looking at a long-term solution at quarterback, they are not a serious franchise.

I’m not sure we’ve learned anything.

It feels like our intense internal discussions are about how to continue to suckle at the Cousins teat* while waiting for the perfect prospect to fall into our lap (now in its third offseason).

Not, how do we commit to the long term solution first.

(*because really ... if we’re honest with ourselves ... being a Cousins sycophant is the strongest form of suction)

Kwesi may have learned something. And that was telling Cousins to go pound sand regarding his latest well-structured contract proposal.

I hope so ...

Post #: 7705

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:14:12 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Possible. He’s a good QB. He was playing well. he’s a good match for O’Connell’s system. We would have won more games with him.

IMO all statements of truth.

Going past that is difficult for me obviously.

13-4 makes you playoff worthy, absolutely. Not necessarily playoff caliber. In fact, Its been 7 years since I’ve seen a playoff caliber Vikings team, not just a team squeaking into the playoffs based on an all-inclusive playoff format.

Post #: 7706

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:23:19 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Possible. He’s a good QB. He was playing well. he’s a good match for O’Connell’s system. We would have won more games with him.

IMO all statements of truth.

Going past that is difficult for me obviously.

13-4 makes you playoff worthy, absolutely. Not necessarily playoff caliber. In fact, Its been 7 years since I’ve seen a playoff caliber Vikings team, not just a team squeaking into the playoffs based on an all-inclusive playoff format.

Playoff caliber sure is subjective, especially in today's NFL. We were good enough to get to the NFCCG this year in this NFC, as Ive said several times -- doesn't mean we were great.

Post #: 7707

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:27:57 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If the Vikings are not looking at a long-term solution at quarterback, they are not a serious franchise.

I’m not sure we’ve learned anything.

It feels like our intense internal discussions are about how to continue to suckle at the Cousins teat* while waiting for the perfect prospect to fall into our lap (now in its third offseason).

Not, how do we commit to the long term solution first.

(*because really ... if we’re honest with ourselves ... being a Cousins sycophant is the strongest form of suction)

Kwesi may have learned something. And that was telling Cousins to go pound sand regarding his latest well-structured contract proposal.

I’m holding my breath. I’m hoping Kwesi had a big stinking team building epiphany but I’m also worried he just pushed a 2-3 year KC wink wink nudge deal down the road (to this year) like everything else.

Post #: 7708

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:31:28 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Possible. He’s a good QB. He was playing well. he’s a good match for O’Connell’s system. We would have won more games with him.

IMO all statements of truth.

Going past that is difficult for me obviously.

13-4 makes you playoff worthy, absolutely. Not necessarily playoff caliber. In fact, Its been 7 years since I’ve seen a playoff caliber Vikings team, not just a team squeaking into the playoffs based on an all-inclusive playoff format.

Playoff caliber sure is subjective, especially in today's NFL. We were good enough to get to the NFCCG this year in this NFC, as Ive said several times -- doesn't mean we were great.

I don’t see it all. I see a different level of contender.

To each their own.

Post #: 7709

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:34:34 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

And by contender I don’t mean great. I do mean good ... even watered down good.

We are a ways from that and a long ways from 2-3 games in the post-season good.

Post #: 7710

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:50:44 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Only if he cut way down on the 7 fumbles.

Post #: 7711

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:51:05 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

And by contender I don’t mean great. I do mean good ... even watered down good.

We are a ways from that and a long ways from 2-3 games in the post-season good.

We were watered down good with Cousins and a semi healthy team minus the 20 turnovers the first few games.

Post #: 7712

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:53:10 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Only if he cut way down on the 7 fumbles.

Of course and his teammates holding on to the ball a little better wouldn't hurt, either

Post #: 7713

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 10:54:25 AM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Do Cousin's stats look similar to Stroud's, where he leads the team to the playoffs, and then a 1st, maybe 2nd round exit ?

I could envision a Cousin's led team, with this year's personnel, losing to just about any team in the 1st round of the playoffs, whether it was Dallas, Detroit, GB, Philly, or whomever.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7714

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 11:07:52 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

Our defense kept us from starting 2-6. We damn near lost to the bears and league-worst panthers.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 7715

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 11:12:30 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If the Vikings are not looking at a long-term solution at quarterback, they are not a serious franchise.

Exhibit A would be the Packers. They drafted Rodgers in the first and groomed him for 3 years behind Farve. They drafted Love in the first round and groomed him for 3 years behind Rodgers.

Both times, the Packers were criticized for taking a QB in the first round when they should be bolstering the roster around their HOF QB. After year 1 with Love at the helm, I don't think they regret either decision.

I contend that their strategy, being way bolder and forward thinking than ours during the same period, is still too conservative. They could have moved on from Favre and Rodgers a year earlier each. That said, they were still able to trade both of them and receive compensation. We never drafted, therefore couldn’t trade our guy for anything, and now might pay him yet again and run it all back again. Their way netted two superbowl wins and should have been more. Our way netted one theoretical make believe MVP award.

Agreed. 3 years is a really long time to sit. And it forces you to make a 2nd contract decision with too small of a sample.

If Love sat for 2 years instead of 3, he likely has his early season growing pains and strong finish last year. And then GB would've had a better version of Love this year, and who knows how far they'd have gone? ANd you can probably push the timeframe back another year.

My take is there are guys who are ready Day 1, and others who would likely benefit from sitting anywhere from 6-8 games to a full year.

If a QB needs to sit for 2 years or more, they're a serious project that probably should've been drafted on Day 3.

Post #: 7716

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 11:22:10 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Do Cousin's stats look similar to Stroud's, where he leads the team to the playoffs, and then a 1st, maybe 2nd round exit ?

I could envision a Cousin's led team, with this year's personnel, losing to just about any team in the 1st round of the playoffs, whether it was Dallas, Detroit, GB, Philly, or whomever.

Or winning.

That's where I really struggle with this board. Too many people want to take a scenario like above and attach a negative to it. IOW, if everything went right we would of squeaked into the playoffs and lost. Right!

And of course I choose the opposite path. One thing leads to another then the sticks and stones start flying.

sigh

Post #: 7717

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 11:47:49 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Only if he cut way down on the 7 fumbles.

Of course and his teammates holding on to the ball a little better wouldn't hurt, either

And this is the issue, for me at least.

Cousins falls short and it always comes with hypothetical qualifiers [from his defenders].

You can't get less hypothetical than throwing short of the sticks on 4th down to end a playoff game against a horrible playoff team. But even then, its all the other things that happened to contribute to that loss ...

And now, we get to it ... the eventual conclusion of this 'reasoning' ...

Cousins gets injured which makes it certain that he would have accomplished what he never come close to doing when healthy?

Okay. We are all entitled to our own fantasies.

Post #: 7718

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 12:05:32 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

If the Vikings are not looking at a long-term solution at quarterback, they are not a serious franchise.

At least they drafted a QB last year....better start drafting one every year.....

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 7719

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 12:06:31 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

More Cousins stats. Big whoop.

After 12 years, he is what he is. A career .246 guy against teams with winning records. 1 playoff victory.

He milks stats and big contracts, but he is a robotic game manager. When the pressure is on in the playoffs, some QBs answer the call. Cousins covers his helmet ear holes then after a 3-and-out looks around with an upside down shit eating grin before sitting in his safe spot. Or he just stops the pressure by throwing short of the sticks.

Stay strong Kwesi!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/31/2024 12:19:30 PM >

Post #: 7720

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 12:17:44 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

Only if he cut way down on the 7 fumbles.

Of course and his teammates holding on to the ball a little better wouldn't hurt, either

And this is the issue, for me at least.

Cousins falls short and it always comes with hypothetical qualifiers [from his defenders].

You can't get less hypothetical than throwing short of the sticks on 4th down to end a playoff game against a horrible playoff team. But even then, its all the other things that happened to contribute to that loss ...

And now, we get to it ... the eventual conclusion of this 'reasoning' ...

Cousins gets injured which makes it certain that he would have accomplished what he never come close to doing when healthy?

Okay. We are all entitled to our own fantasies.

I did like Fantasia... not as a fantasy but for it's artistry.

Post #: 7721

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 12:25:11 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our defense kept us from starting 2-6. We damn near lost to the bears and league-worst panthers.

Those two one-score 'wins' prevented Minnesota from starting 0-6... could have really been in the running for Caleb Williams. Woulda, coulda, but those were the days.

Post #: 7722

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 12:47:29 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

69.5% of his throws and had 18 touchdown passes to five interceptions

Hard to imagine that couldn't of gotten you at least into the championship game, in this year's NFC, even for an ass‐kisser ...

I believe it. Too bad god had other plans.

Maybe God has bigger things in mind for Kirk - I wouldn't know, though

Post #: 7723

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 1:13:09 PM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Or winning.

That's where I really struggle with this board. Too many people want to take a scenario like above and attach a negative to it. IOW, if everything went right we would of squeaked into the playoffs and lost. Right!

Had Kirk went on a Super Bowl run and won a SB in the past, I may have guessed he would win a playoff game or 2, but even then you can be ousted in the 1st round like Flacco.

We would have hoped for a playoff run if Kirk had stayed healthy, we can hope, but really can't assume.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 7724

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2024 1:13:38 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our defense kept us from starting 2-6. We damn near lost to the bears and league-worst panthers.

Those two one-score 'wins' prevented Minnesota from starting 0-6... could have really been in the running for Caleb Williams. Woulda, coulda, but those were the days.

Dang. I had forgotten about that. I will have to curb my KC superlatives now.

I do agree though, it was a lot easier to project a deep playoff run with Kirk ... after the injury, not before.

Post #: 7725