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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2024 6:35:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28102
Status: offline 		Mark,
As for 2025, just look at 2027. Similar thing. Cousins, Davenport, Oliver, Murphy, Bradbury, and Lowry all continue their dead cap void years... but only if they somehow are still under contract.

Note: this is for illustration on void years. Some of the lesser players can be cut as early as 2025 with no cap issue. Murphy is a weird one.

Still, Kwesi and his sycophant Brzez have essentially one-upped Spielman in terms of dead money, except there is no talent! $50 million in dead money to go 7-10.


Kwesi is one and done. Out of football after this idiotic foray.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 2/14/2024 7:17:46 PM >
Post #: 7901
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2024 7:13:47 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Mark,
As for 2025, just look at 2027. Similar thing. Cousins, Davenport, Oliver, Murphy, Bradbury, and Lowry all continue their dead cap void years... but only if they somehow are still under contract.

Kwesi and his sycophant Brzez have essentially one-upped Spielman in terms of dead money, except there is no talent! IMO it's sickening from a cap sense.

I did the spotrac manager deal. I released Cousins and Hunter and their cap charges stayed the same.

Where did you see that they have to remain on roster or all their dead cap charges add up and count this coming year?

I'm not saying you aren't right. I'm just going by the spotrac site.
Post #: 7902
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2024 7:28:57 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28102
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Mark,
As for 2025, just look at 2027. Similar thing. Cousins, Davenport, Oliver, Murphy, Bradbury, and Lowry all continue their dead cap void years... but only if they somehow are still under contract.

Kwesi and his sycophant Brzez have essentially one-upped Spielman in terms of dead money, except there is no talent! IMO it's sickening from a cap sense.

I did the spotrac manager deal. I released Cousins and Hunter and their cap charges stayed the same.

Where did you see that they have to remain on roster or all their dead cap charges add up and count this coming year?

I'm not saying you aren't right. I'm just going by the spotrac site.


It's an easy search and is all over the place. Might help if you see it from another source. Like this tidbit from NFL.com: If there is dead money in a player's contract and he is released or retires, that charge will accelerate onto the team's salary cap for the current year.

All you need to know is if Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport hit free agency then the Vikings cap is dealt a $50 million hit for 2024.
Post #: 7903
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2024 7:39:25 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12104
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Mark,
As for 2025, just look at 2027. Similar thing. Cousins, Davenport, Oliver, Murphy, Bradbury, and Lowry all continue their dead cap void years... but only if they somehow are still under contract.

Kwesi and his sycophant Brzez have essentially one-upped Spielman in terms of dead money, except there is no talent! IMO it's sickening from a cap sense.

I did the spotrac manager deal. I released Cousins and Hunter and their cap charges stayed the same.

Where did you see that they have to remain on roster or all their dead cap charges add up and count this coming year?

I'm not saying you aren't right. I'm just going by the spotrac site.


It's an easy search and is all over the place. Might help if you see it from another source. Like this tidbit from NFL.com: If there is dead money in a player's contract and he is released or retires, that charge will accelerate onto the team's salary cap for the current year.

All you need to know is if Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport hit free agency then the Vikings cap is dealt a $50 million hit for 2024.

What I am seeing is the 50M is already factored in on the 28M under figure.
Post #: 7904
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2024 7:53:35 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28102
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Mark,
As for 2025, just look at 2027. Similar thing. Cousins, Davenport, Oliver, Murphy, Bradbury, and Lowry all continue their dead cap void years... but only if they somehow are still under contract.

Kwesi and his sycophant Brzez have essentially one-upped Spielman in terms of dead money, except there is no talent! IMO it's sickening from a cap sense.

I did the spotrac manager deal. I released Cousins and Hunter and their cap charges stayed the same.

Where did you see that they have to remain on roster or all their dead cap charges add up and count this coming year?

I'm not saying you aren't right. I'm just going by the spotrac site.


It's an easy search and is all over the place. Might help if you see it from another source. Like this tidbit from NFL.com: If there is dead money in a player's contract and he is released or retires, that charge will accelerate onto the team's salary cap for the current year.

All you need to know is if Cousins, Hunter, and Davenport hit free agency then the Vikings cap is dealt a $50 million hit for 2024.

What I am seeing is the 50M is already factored in on the 28M under figure.


I see what you are saying. Alright, $50 million is factored in. The whole point of this was the line that if we dump Cousins and Hunter, they will still count 18M in 2025.

So Kwesi has $28 million ($24 million per Overthe cap) plus Smith's cap savings, JJ restructure, etc. to work with to, well, accomplish a LOT.

The offseason spending - and how it is paid for - will be telling.
Post #: 7905
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/14/2024 8:54:07 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17892
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

is rutterless ….

Grammar police, here…

Not A Word…

rudderless

Rutterless could be a word. It could apply to a male deer with ED during breeding season.

Good one.

Of all power points in my post Danno (the worst speller on this forum points out a misused but easily overlooked word). That is irony my friends.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 7906
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 2:06:16 AM   
JT2

 

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

is rutterless ….

Grammar police, here…

Not A Word…

rudderless

Rutterless could be a word. It could apply to a male deer with ED during breeding season.

Good one.

Of all power points in my post Danno (the worst speller on this forum points out a misused but easily overlooked word). That is irony my friends.


I agree. Sometimes Dan speaks in garbled gypsy curses (shout out Tim Dillon) but somehow I understand. Still funny.
Post #: 7907
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 10:41:26 AM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

If Hunter walks, to me, is a really pivotal moment for KAM. Coupled with his other whiffs, that would be it for me if I were the owner. It's one of the most important positions in todays game and you get jack squat for him?


it's not like we were pushing for a SB so we had to take the chance. Everyone knew that last year wasn't "it" for us so you have to be smart and maximize your assets. Hell, he was a commodity trader for God's sake.

Not sure I agree.

Some in the 'anything can happen' crowd are still leaving Dia de los Muertos sacrifices at the shrine of 13-4.



The truly depressing part about the Hunter stuff is the reporting that's come out of Purple Daily. Apparently, around the deadline, KAM asked the players what they thought about trying to trade Hunter (as in, he asked for their opinions).

You're the GM of the team dude. Do you expect to get an honest assessment from his boys? That's just 2nd grade GM'ing, if true. It's one thing to get input on decisions in the offseason from some leaders. It's a whole different S-show to do it in season while they are just trying to win some games.

I'll be shocked if this guy succeeds with what I've seen so far.
Post #: 7908
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 11:43:08 AM   
bstinger


Posts: 16525
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

If Hunter walks, to me, is a really pivotal moment for KAM. Coupled with his other whiffs, that would be it for me if I were the owner. It's one of the most important positions in todays game and you get jack squat for him?


it's not like we were pushing for a SB so we had to take the chance. Everyone knew that last year wasn't "it" for us so you have to be smart and maximize your assets. Hell, he was a commodity trader for God's sake.

I agree.

Sometimes you gotta be willing to sell for the sake of long term improvement. Not selling before the deadline after KC got hurt was a major mistake.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan
Post #: 7909
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 12:02:12 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 44838
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll be shocked if this guy succeeds with what I've seen so far.

Yep. His first move out of the gate was a face plant and he's done nothing to turn it around. I'm sure to a degree this competitive rebuild is a mandate from the Wilfs, but KAMs player evaluation and player value are atrocious.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 7910
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 1:29:25 PM   
marty


Posts: 12881
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		What do you think of trading for Cooper Rush, and using him as a bridge QB ?

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 7911
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 1:58:31 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5818
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

What do you think of trading for Cooper Rush, and using him as a bridge QB ?

I dont see it. At all.

Get our QB first. Exhaust all resources at young core pieces, QB Edge CB LT. Please

I would not trade anything until after this draft.
Post #: 7912
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 2:10:27 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5818
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		I guess it depends on the asking price.

Cooper Rush has a cap number this year 2,875,000. So not a big cap impact for a better back-up than we've had in a loooong time (on paper).

A backup that give you some starts would be a good thing. But our assets are minimal as it is.
Post #: 7913
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 2:10:58 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5818
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		oops
Post #: 7914
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 2:20:14 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5818
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll be shocked if this guy succeeds with what I've seen so far.

Yep. His first move out of the gate was a face plant and he's done nothing to turn it around. I'm sure to a degree this competitive rebuild is a mandate from the Wilfs, but KAMs player evaluation and player value are atrocious.

His biggest non-draft move was for a TE. His biggest draft moves were a S that doesn't back up much less start ... and a #2 complimentary WR.

Zounds.
Post #: 7915
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 2:28:58 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9419
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll be shocked if this guy succeeds with what I've seen so far.

Yep. His first move out of the gate was a face plant and he's done nothing to turn it around. I'm sure to a degree this competitive rebuild is a mandate from the Wilfs, but KAMs player evaluation and player value are atrocious.

His biggest non-draft move was for ?a TE. His biggest draft moves were a S that doesn't back up much less start ... and a #2 complimentary WR.

Zounds.



could have paid hockenson:

2023....$9mm
2024...$11.4mm
2025....$ ???

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 7916
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 3:17:30 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online 		Would anyone be willing to give Fields a chance if you could get him for next years 2nd? Mobility is off the charts and he has a cannon of an arm. Would be curious to hear what KOC thinks of him.
Post #: 7917
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 3:26:14 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38918
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Would anyone be willing to give Fields a chance if you could get him for next years 2nd? Mobility is off the charts and he has a cannon of an arm. Would be curious to hear what KOC thinks of him.



If he were any good we wouldn't be able to get him at all.

No thanks.

_____________________________

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. Frank Zappa
Post #: 7918
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 4:53:58 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77415
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Would anyone be willing to give Fields a chance if you could get him for next years 2nd? Mobility is off the charts and he has a cannon of an arm. Would be curious to hear what KOC thinks of him.


Maybe?

He has one cheap year left (and an expensive 5th year option).

My worry is he isn't at all a KOC Quarterback, and I haven't seen anything from KOC that he's adaptable to talent.
Post #: 7919
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 5:02:50 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online 		You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment.
Post #: 7920
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 5:03:41 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Would anyone be willing to give Fields a chance if you could get him for next years 2nd? Mobility is off the charts and he has a cannon of an arm. Would be curious to hear what KOC thinks of him.



If he were any good we wouldn't be able to get him at all.

No thanks.




Chicago hasn't had a good QB in my lifetime and their HC is terrible. I want to see him get a chance with a legit coach who knows offense.
Post #: 7921
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 5:14:35 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5818
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Would anyone be willing to give Fields a chance if you could get him for next years 2nd? Mobility is off the charts and he has a cannon of an arm. Would be curious to hear what KOC thinks of him.



If he were any good we wouldn't be able to get him at all.

No thanks.




Chicago hasn't had a good QB in my lifetime and their HC is terrible. I want to see him get a chance with a legit coach who knows offense.

Having the first pick also muddies the evaluation of how Chicago actually feels about Fields. They may like his traits but find it hard to pass on a truly great prospect like Williams.
Post #: 7922
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 5:27:24 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77415
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment.


And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins...
Post #: 7923
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 6:10:13 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28102
Status: offline 		Fields for a 2nd? We already lack a 3rd due to the Hock trade. Love those NFCN deals But I would not trade for Fields AND draft a QB in the 1st round unless Fields can be cut w/o breaking the bank.

Fields has already been outspoken about QB/offensive coaching. That might magnify here. He might join Flores and file a lawsuit!
Post #: 7924
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2024 6:24:56 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19217
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

You would think that the way KOC got through the first couple of Dobbs games (by walking him through the play while he could) would be pretty amazing with Fields. You could get a good 1 year look for pretty cheap. I'm not advocating for it but it would be an interesting experiment.


And then he proceeded to hammer Dobbs into a square hole once he started to learn the playbook. I'm sure if he got Fields in the offseason, he'd have plenty of time to try to forge him into Cousins...



I’ve heard speculation that he didn’t want to change the O mid season but if he gets the offseason he can adapt but it’s a good point
Post #: 7925
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