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RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 9:06:49 AM  1 votes
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		I like the Hunter signing. He should be highly motivated and if he stinks this year you wash your hands of him with no cap hit.
Post #: 801
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 9:21:56 AM  1 votes
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		As others have said. The coaches are only looking short term. Long term is Kwesi's job and I'm not sure I understand his vision (assuming he has one). We, absolutely, need Hunter to be competetive for a division title this year. That said, 3 of the most important positions in football in 2023 and the near future:

QB - 1 year deal with nobody in the wings to take over
DE - both sides 1 year deal
CB - nothing but unproven guys

That's a lot of "hope and questions". I'm starting to wonder about this guy. If/when he locks up JJ and TJ, that's a lot of money taken for a lot of unanswered solutions that need attention. BTW - add Darrisaw is in the mix for a big contract too coming up. We're getting in to the weird territory where we have super high end stars with no depth and no QB. Those stars will probably keep us in the quagmire of picking 15-20 so we can't get the cheap stud QB.
Post #: 802
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 10:44:08 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

As others have said. The coaches are only looking short term. Long term is Kwesi's job and I'm not sure I understand his vision (assuming he has one). We, absolutely, need Hunter to be competetive for a division title this year. That said, 3 of the most important positions in football in 2023 and the near future:

QB - 1 year deal with nobody in the wings to take over
DE - both sides 1 year deal
CB - nothing but unproven guys

That's a lot of "hope and questions". I'm starting to wonder about this guy. If/when he locks up JJ and TJ, that's a lot of money taken for a lot of unanswered solutions that need attention. BTW - add Darrisaw is in the mix for a big contract too coming up. We're getting in to the weird territory where we have super high end stars with no depth and no QB. Those stars will probably keep us in the quagmire of picking 15-20 so we can't get the cheap stud QB.


Cheap stud QB is if drafted after top 10 or later like (Mahomes at 12)....Lawrence, Lance, Wilson, etc. aren't cheap. 2 mentioned are 8 million dollar 3rd string QBs.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 803
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 10:46:38 AM   
Pauldiercks1

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 2/1/2019
Status: offline 		Not a huge fan of the signing. Preferred we trade him away. But I'm not a huge fan of this rebuild strategy either.
I'd much rather bottom out damn hard and rebuild. If you start with the right pieces a rebuild is quick and the cap is in line for a run.
If you don't have the right pieces then keeping looking for them. IE. top 5 QB

in chat sights people say ohh Jefferson won't stick around if we are getting a top two draft pick. The heck he won't. a two year rebuild with a plan no big deal, but 6-7 years stuck in mediocrity, that will drive him nuts.
Post #: 804
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 10:52:09 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Not a huge fan of the signing. Preferred we trade him away. But I'm not a huge fan of this rebuild strategy either.
I'd much rather bottom out damn hard and rebuild. If you start with the right pieces a rebuild is quick and the cap is in line for a run.
If you don't have the right pieces then keeping looking for them. IE. top 5 QB

in chat sights people say ohh Jefferson won't stick around if we are getting a top two draft pick. The heck he won't. a two year rebuild with a plan no big deal, but 6-7 years stuck in mediocrity, that will drive him nuts.


Name of the game is the coaching staff....if you don't see the difference between the Zimmer team and last year.

You added a very good def mind to the staff this year. Too early to call KOC Grant but it is great to have a great QB but even the Vikings teams in the 70s had the players, Coach, and the drafts.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 805
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 11:58:30 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		If only we could have solid success on def this year.

i wonder what Flores would think of the "bottom out" strategy?

Or KOC for that matter. "Nice year you had there coach but we're gonna tank for a for a bit and see if we can't come up with a stud QB."

I think that would prob drive me away from football
Post #: 806
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 12:21:21 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

As others have said. The coaches are only looking short term. Long term is Kwesi's job and I'm not sure I understand his vision (assuming he has one). We, absolutely, need Hunter to be competetive for a division title this year. That said, 3 of the most important positions in football in 2023 and the near future:

QB - 1 year deal with nobody in the wings to take over
DE - both sides 1 year deal
CB - nothing but unproven guys

That's a lot of "hope and questions". I'm starting to wonder about this guy. If/when he locks up JJ and TJ, that's a lot of money taken for a lot of unanswered solutions that need attention. BTW - add Darrisaw is in the mix for a big contract too coming up. We're getting in to the weird territory where we have super high end stars with no depth and no QB. Those stars will probably keep us in the quagmire of picking 15-20 so we can't get the cheap stud QB.

Bolded part made me chuckle. Sad but true. WTH is his plan?

At this particular point we have 3 good players (JJ, Hock, Darrisaw) we can build around. I think the 1st thing on the grocery list should be getting a franchise qb at whatever means possible. Darrisaw would be the only untouchable player in that quest.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 807
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 12:26:14 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Vikings have $50+ million in dead cap on the books for 2024 — plus a free agent starting QB, two free agent starting edge rushers, and at least three young stars on offense looking to get paid.

Curious to see how Vikings navigate the accounting after 2023 without taking a step back in 2024.

But, if there’s one thing we know about the Vikings, they’ll fight tooth and nail to get those 9 wins 👊🏼🥊
Tweet from Phil Mackey

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 808
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 1:00:11 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

As others have said. The coaches are only looking short term. Long term is Kwesi's job and I'm not sure I understand his vision (assuming he has one). We, absolutely, need Hunter to be competetive for a division title this year. That said, 3 of the most important positions in football in 2023 and the near future:

QB - 1 year deal with nobody in the wings to take over
DE - both sides 1 year deal
CB - nothing but unproven guys

That's a lot of "hope and questions". I'm starting to wonder about this guy. If/when he locks up JJ and TJ, that's a lot of money taken for a lot of unanswered solutions that need attention. BTW - add Darrisaw is in the mix for a big contract too coming up. We're getting in to the weird territory where we have super high end stars with no depth and no QB. Those stars will probably keep us in the quagmire of picking 15-20 so we can't get the cheap stud QB.

Bolded part made me chuckle. Sad but true. WTH is his plan?

At this particular point we have 3 good players (JJ, Hock, Darrisaw) we can build around. I think the 1st thing on the grocery list should be getting a franchise qb at whatever means possible. Darrisaw would be the only untouchable player in that quest.


I would add Brian O'Neil to the list of good players.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 809
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 1:01:05 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

As others have said. The coaches are only looking short term. Long term is Kwesi's job and I'm not sure I understand his vision (assuming he has one). We, absolutely, need Hunter to be competetive for a division title this year. That said, 3 of the most important positions in football in 2023 and the near future:

QB - 1 year deal with nobody in the wings to take over
DE - both sides 1 year deal
CB - nothing but unproven guys

That's a lot of "hope and questions". I'm starting to wonder about this guy. If/when he locks up JJ and TJ, that's a lot of money taken for a lot of unanswered solutions that need attention. BTW - add Darrisaw is in the mix for a big contract too coming up. We're getting in to the weird territory where we have super high end stars with no depth and no QB. Those stars will probably keep us in the quagmire of picking 15-20 so we can't get the cheap stud QB.

Solid post.

It feels like Kwesi is still feeling his way out of the previous regime.

He has not commited to team-building based on positional value. Maybe big commitments start to fall next offseason at QB, LT, DE/Edge, and CB. JJ at WR is a special case.

Whether you are a Cousins fan or not, we have not commited to him or trying to find an alternative for 2 offseasons. That puts the franchise in limbo.

I understand the difficulty of turning over a roster, bringing change with minimal assets, etc. But 13-4 was a ‘lions eating humans in the coliseum’ type of entertainment, enough for some fans to forgive and forget the actual state of the republic.

The team was not competitive in the playoffs nor against playoff and non-playoff teams at the end of the 13-4 ‘proof of life’ run. There was no improvement after GB week 1, really. As someone in here already posted, I’ll take a 10-7 team that is developing new talent and improving at the end of the year into a playoff contender - over last year’s fast-melting popsicle.

Beneath the bad outcome of 2022, a lot of really good things happened … the coaches look legit / show a lot of potential … there are a lot of player question marks that could turn out really well. I am very hopefull.

Hopefully Kwesi can start making some strides instead of simply hedging his bets.
Post #: 810
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 2:06:51 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

As others have said. The coaches are only looking short term. Long term is Kwesi's job and I'm not sure I understand his vision (assuming he has one). We, absolutely, need Hunter to be competetive for a division title this year. That said, 3 of the most important positions in football in 2023 and the near future:

QB - 1 year deal with nobody in the wings to take over
DE - both sides 1 year deal
CB - nothing but unproven guys

That's a lot of "hope and questions". I'm starting to wonder about this guy. If/when he locks up JJ and TJ, that's a lot of money taken for a lot of unanswered solutions that need attention. BTW - add Darrisaw is in the mix for a big contract too coming up. We're getting in to the weird territory where we have super high end stars with no depth and no QB. Those stars will probably keep us in the quagmire of picking 15-20 so we can't get the cheap stud QB.

Bolded part made me chuckle. Sad but true. WTH is his plan?

At this particular point we have 3 good players (JJ, Hock, Darrisaw) we can build around. I think the 1st thing on the grocery list should be getting a franchise qb at whatever means possible. Darrisaw would be the only untouchable player in that quest.


Would you consider JJ and Darrisaw just good players?
There are ways to get franchise QBs w/o selling the farm or tanking. I look at the Jets and SF paying 9.5 million to their 2nd or 3rd string QBs this year and 11 million in 2024...there is a downside to these top qbs if you don't hit.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/trey-lance-72382/next year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/zach-wilson-72381/

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 7/31/2023 2:16:37 PM >

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SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 811
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 4:25:38 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		There was no improvement after GB week 1


I wonder a lot "what happens to the season if Watson catches the first pass of the season??"
Post #: 812
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 6:16:55 PM   
geoffrey greitzer

 

Posts: 1450
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		Dalton Risner!! oh yes make it happen
Post #: 813
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2023 10:05:50 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 14000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Dalton Risner!! oh yes make it happen

Oh hell yea!

I’ll take that.
Unload cousins and smith and cook in the off..

Use draft to take another stab at a qbotf in 2024..

Fn cap hell sucks..

Thanks Speils..

Fn moron..

_____________________________

**** you all.
Post #: 814
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 6:50:00 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9562
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online 		.
.
i could mean that o'neill is not doing as well as we had hoped...perhaps we're going to convert Cleveland back to tackle - higher trade value, too....

risner at left guard could mean that we're good at o-line for the foreseeable future....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 815
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 8:02:47 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		-Kwesi seems very fixated on one year contracts. So we'll see what he offers Risner.

-Bradbury is still a huge liability and Ingram needs a ton of improvement just to reach average.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 816
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 8:29:07 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Dalton Risner!! oh yes make it happen

Oh hell yea!

I’ll take that.
Unload cousins and smith and cook in the off..

Use draft to take another stab at a qbotf in 2024..

Fn cap hell sucks..

Thanks Speils..

Fn moron..

quote:



Bill Jandro


I am amazed he is still out there; lots of teams need line help.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 817
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 8:30:00 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

-Kwesi seems very fixated on one year contracts. So we'll see what he offers Risner.

-Bradbury is still a huge liability and Ingram needs a ton of improvement just to reach average.


Best thing about 1 year contracts; if things go south those players are easier to trade and usually same players perform at a high level (looking for a new contract).

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/1/2023 8:46:37 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 818
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 9:00:23 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28600
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i could mean that o'neill is not doing as well as we had hoped...perhaps we're going to convert Cleveland back to tackle - higher trade value, too....

risner at left guard could mean that we're good at o-line for the foreseeable future....


Except for 40% of it.
Post #: 819
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 9:52:14 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
i could mean that o'neill is not doing as well as we had hoped...perhaps we're going to convert Cleveland back to tackle - higher trade value, too....

risner at left guard could mean that we're good at o-line for the foreseeable future....


Except for 40% of it.

LOL.

So you’re saying the OL would be a vast upgrade over the last few versions?
Post #: 820
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 10:01:36 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39278
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Dalton Risner!! oh yes make it happen

Oh hell yea!

I’ll take that.
Unload cousins and smith and cook in the off..

Use draft to take another stab at a qbotf in 2024..

Fn cap hell sucks..

Thanks Speils..

Fn moron..

quote:



Bill Jandro


I am amazed he is still out there; lots of teams need line help.


He's not rated very well. He gets a low grade.

would he really be an upgrade? We all hate Ingram so much we think it will, but will it really?

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 821
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 10:20:04 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Janik Eckardt
@JanikEckardt
·
16h
Pressures allowed in 2022:
Risner 29
Ingram 58
Cleveland 53

QB hits allowed:
Risner 6
Cleveland 20
Ingram 18

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 822
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 10:20:28 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Joe Spinosa
@realjoespinosa
·
15h
Dalton Risner allowed fewer sacks (10) in his 62 career games than Ed Ingram did in 17 games last year

He’s only allowed 3 more QB hits in his career than Ingram did last year

Give Kirk some protection!

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 823
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 10:20:51 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Dustin Baker
@DustBaker
·
16h
Dalton Risner is the opposite of a typical Vikings guard from the last decade or so.

He's a much better pass protector than run-blocker.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 824
RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/1/2023 10:39:20 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Dalton Risner!! oh yes make it happen

Oh hell yea!

I’ll take that.
Unload cousins and smith and cook in the off..

Use draft to take another stab at a qbotf in 2024..

Fn cap hell sucks..

Thanks Speils..

Fn moron..

quote:



Bill Jandro


I am amazed he is still out there; lots of teams need line help.


He's not rated very well. He gets a low grade.

would he really be an upgrade? We all hate Ingram so much we think it will, but will it really?

Yes, it really will. He is not elite, but he is extremely competent, which is a massive upgrade from what we have.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 825
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