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RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 2:27:26 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.

1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.

So its Apples to Apples, since both Washington and NE need a QB as badly as we do.

I'm talking about a trade to #4 or 5. I said both of those teams need more than a WR. You replied so do we, which I took to mean we need more than a QB.

Gotcha. But I also think the QBs do figure in because I don't think we trade for 4 or 5 unless we know we can get 2 or 3.

But I still disagree overall. I think the 6th pick has so much more value than 11 in this draft that 23 does not make up for 47. Do you pass up MHJ for a late 1st?

Post #: 476

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 2:28:13 PM

Todd M

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So I figure there must be some hesitation on Chicago’s part in taking Williams. It’s like an arranged marriage…they’re #1 and he’s #1 so I guess let’s get together.. if there was any forward thinking it wouldn’t be hard to imagine issues coming up after 3 years. A huge contract demand from Williams camp that they’ll sit on and not budge from. Basically Williams exerting as much force as he can to get to another team.

So we park ourselves at #2 before the draft. Gets Chicago thinking…we can’t **** this up. Williams sees a potentially great situation one pick away. Things get said. One way or another Chicago blinks and takes a different QB.

Are the Vikes brass thrilled? Are we?

Post #: 477

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 2:36:48 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.

1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.

Wanted to get back to this because its a hindsight choice.

They were basically the same draft pick. Jefferson went 22, Addison went 23.

Its a lot of luck drafting a WR that late. We could've easily had Ruggs, Jeudy or Reagor instead of JJ. And the 3 picks directly ahead of Addison were all WRs.

Neither of those teams have anything at WR. Like totally bare cupboards. Is picking up the 23rd pick worth missing out on one of the clear Top 3? There is such a drop off on WRs this year that even using the 11 elsewhere, they might be reaching at 23 for a WR.

Post #: 478

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 5:26:50 PM

David Levine

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Over the sixty-three previous drafts in Vikings’ franchise history, the Vikings have drafted a total of 27 quarterbacks. Most of those were in the later rounds. Only five were selected in the first thirty-two picks (Fran Tarkenton was picked 29th but also in the 3rd round back in 1961). So using a first-round draft pick on a quarterback is something the Vikings have rarely done in franchise history- only four times in sixty-three drafts.

The highest the Vikings have ever drafted a quarterback was at #11 in 1999 when they drafted Daunte Culpepper. As it stands now, the Vikings may at least tie that record next month if they stick and pick with their #11 pick. But with the trade for an additional first-round draft pick, they may move up in the draft and select a quarterback with the highest draft pick in franchise history.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2024/3/18/24098927/the-vikings-are-on-a-quest-for-the-holy-grail-of-professional-football-now-they-must-choose-wisely

Post #: 479

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 5:38:39 PM

David Levine

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Albert Breer of SI.com reports that the [Vikings] will be watching J.J. McCarthy work out a couple of times.

Quarterbacks coaches Josh McCown and Grant Udinski are set to be at Michigan’s Pro Day on March 22 and Breer reports that Adofo-Mensah and head coach Kevin O’Connell are set to travel to Ann Arbor for a private workout with the Wolverines standout.

Post #: 480

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 7:10:28 PM

marty

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I think because Lance was basically a flop, it should take LESS for the Vikings to move up to #2 or #3, not the same amount.

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Post #: 481

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 7:53:26 PM

David Levine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think because Lance was basically a flop, it should take LESS for the Vikings to move up to #2 or #3, not the same amount.

No.

Post #: 482

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 7:58:39 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think because Lance was basically a flop, it should take LESS for the Vikings to move up to #2 or #3, not the same amount.

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Post #: 483

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/18/2024 8:36:31 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think because Lance was basically a flop, it should take LESS for the Vikings to move up to #2 or #3, not the same amount.

No.

That’s like saying “ well Kirk won 13 games and was 4-4, but Damn.. 50 million per year is surely the way to get 2 consecutive wins in the playoffs, just because he was so good 2 freaking years ago…”

I’m noticing a LOT , well this is our turn, knee pads to optimism..

Which is fine..

I was that way till the ultimate sellout for absolutely nothing..

Not letting this franchise off until we next win an NFCCG..
Which.. might.. never.. happen..

If KOC can’t learn to go for the throat and simplify his playbook calls while 30+ seconds are on the Clock in crunch time..

JFC.. between that idiocy and a 12 year vet who needs daddies permission to clock a play after a first down?

I should be sucking on the hind tit of joy?

Nope.

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Post #: 484

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 7:05:34 AM

Bill Jandro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.

1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.

So its Apples to Apples, since both Washington and NE need a QB as badly as we do.

I'm talking about a trade to #4 or 5. I said both of those teams need more than a WR. You replied so do we, which I took to mean we need more than a QB.

It is very possible the LAC take Joe Alt. Harbaugh loves to run the ball and they need help up front. Alt is very highly rated.

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Post #: 485

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 7:58:20 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I get you are saying David, but consider...

1. WR is widely considered the deepest position group in the draft.
2. Both teams need a lot more than a WR
3. While, the value aspect is not a rule, the value difference is the equivalent of a second round pick.

1. There are 3 WRs considered elite prospects - and all 3 are expected to go by pick 8.
2. So do we.
3. QBs are a premium. Especially if more than one team is interested in them.

1. While true, would these teams rather add Jefferson or Addison plus a stud at another position?
2. This is an apples and oranges comparison. We need a lot more than a QB, but a franchise QB is the hardest piece in the NFL universe to get.
3. I think the potential for secondary moves is a lot greater with 11 & 23 than 6 & 47. They can move up or down with either first rounder. They can trade 23 back into the neighborhood of 47 and pick up more assets.

So its Apples to Apples, since both Washington and NE need a QB as badly as we do.

I'm talking about a trade to #4 or 5. I said both of those teams need more than a WR. You replied so do we, which I took to mean we need more than a QB.

It is very possible the LAC take Joe Alt. Harbaugh loves to run the ball and they need help up front. Alt is very highly rated.

Harbaugh does love the run game and may not be as focused on a WR at 5 as we might think. LAC also needs just about everything, but a QB, in a draft that is deep in WR. On the other hand they also just cleaned their WR cupboard, so a stud WR would be a logical pick.

I think a trade to 5 is more doable than David does, but I am in total agreement with him that I wouldn't do it unless there was a deal to move up to #2 or #3 contingent on #5 in place. My fear is that Kwesi has decided after coming this far he can't come away empty handed on a QB and trades up to #5 to take McCarthy. I like McCarthy better than Pennix or Nix, but that price is too steep for him, IMO.

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Post #: 486

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 8:07:58 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.

I say we leave them as they are and choose the best offensive lineman at #11 and Penix at #23.

Pennix has a strong accurate arm, is old, immobile and stunk it up in the big game. Sounds like another QB you despise.

Or Bo Nix at 23

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Post #: 487

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 8:16:26 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.

I say we leave them as they are and choose the best offensive lineman at #11 and Penix at #23.

Pennix has a strong accurate arm, is old, immobile and stunk it up in the big game. Sounds like another QB you despise.

Or Bo Nix at 23

If I don't like Pennix, why would I wan't someone rated lower than Pennix? I'd rather roll with Darnold for the year and take a QB with our inevitable top 5 pick next year.

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Post #: 488

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 8:26:01 AM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.

I say we leave them as they are and choose the best offensive lineman at #11 and Penix at #23.

Pennix has a strong accurate arm, is old, immobile and stunk it up in the big game. Sounds like another QB you despise.

Or Bo Nix at 23

Bo Nix is thought about almost equal to Fields.....athletic but not a passer.

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Post #: 489

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:09:24 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

To 1 for Williams - 0% chance
To 2 for Daniels - 5% chance
To 3 for Maye - 50% chance
To 5 for JJ - 75% chance

Looking at each option individually.

I say we leave them as they are and choose the best offensive lineman at #11 and Penix at #23.

Pennix has a strong accurate arm, is old, immobile and stunk it up in the big game. Sounds like another QB you despise.

Or Bo Nix at 23

Bo Nix is thought about almost equal to Fields.....athletic but not a passer.

Not a passer? He threw for 4,500 yards and 45 touchdowns last season, with just three interceptions. Had a 77.4 completion %.

One could (easily) make a case he was the best passer in the country. He (188.3) had the second highest passer rating in the country next to Daniels.

Your boy McCarthy threw for under 3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns.

JJ McCarthy is a spitting image of his college coach, Jim Harbaugh. Good player. Plays hard. Comes from a run-heavy offense. Nothing special. I would never draft that guy in the first round.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/19/2024 9:20:14 AM >

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Post #: 490

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:29:28 AM

Ricky J

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So, who's Mel Kiper say we're going to get? For only $10.99/month you can find out - Lawd!

Post #: 491

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:30:21 AM

Daniel Lee Young

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McCarthy played in a “ power running game offense”that blew out opponents early and was capable of grinding time off game clocks by Not passing..

The comparison is based on totally different college career statistics.

Doesn’t have any kind of equivalent comparison.

Personal bias is personal bias.

Al, I want, going forward, is development of a franchise QB, capable of getting this franchise to be able to compete with the best teams in the NFL and win, enough games to get consistently DEEP into the post season and be capable of meeting and beating the challenge of equal or better coaching.

It’s not just which players we get and how we use them... it is about ALL of it, including coaching up players and having dynamic schemes that can handle the good and bad that comes at random.

Failumg to convert TO’s in our opponents end of the fieldinto daggers to the throat, at any point in a game, is a fail.

Throwing interceptions or fumbling the ball in “ goal to go, situations.. is a fail..

Settling for a field goal, or playing for one, to” make the safe throw or call” is a fail.

I do not like that attitude.

KoC has that tattooed on his forehead.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 3/19/2024 9:31:37 AM >

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**** you all.

Post #: 492

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:34:48 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

McCarthy played in a “ power running game offense”that blew out opponents early and was capable of grinding time off game clocks by Not passing..

The comparison is based on totally different college career statistics.

Doesn’t have any kind of equivalent comparison.

Personal bias is personal bias.

Al, I want, going forward, is development of a franchise QB, capable of getting this franchise to be able to compete with the best teams in the NFL and win, enough games to get consistently DEEP into the post season and be capable of meeting and beating the challenge of equal or better coaching.

It’s not just which players we get and how we use them... it is about ALL of it, including coaching up players and having dynamic schemes that can handle the good and bad that comes at random.

Failumg to convert TO’s in our opponents end of the fieldinto daggers to the throat, at any point in a game, is a fail.

Throwing interceptions or fumbling the ball in “ goal to go, situations.. is a fail..

Settling for a field goal, or playing for one, to” make the safe throw or call” is a fail.

I do not like that attitude.

KoC has that tattooed on his forehead.

In the NFL, you have to be able to score in the final two minutes of halves. It's critical. You also have to be savvy enough to use the clock to your advantage. Guys like Kirk Cousins are terrible at this stuff. Guys like Patrick Mahomes, Brady, Montana, Rodgers.... were all great at it.

McCarthy strikes me as a project at these things. He mostly played from in front for his entire career, playing with guys around him that were bigger, faster and stronger.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 3/19/2024 9:37:57 AM >

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Post #: 493

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:38:04 AM

kgdabom

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Bo Nix is very likely to be a good NFL QB.

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Post #: 494

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:39:26 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Bo Nix is very likely to be a good NFL QB.

I agree, provided he gets on the right team.

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Post #: 495

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 9:51:28 AM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Bo Nix is very likely to be a good NFL QB.

I agree, provided he gets on the right team.

The Vikings of course.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 496

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 10:24:51 AM

TJSweens

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Bo Nix is an athletic Christian Ponder.

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Post #: 497

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 10:43:20 AM

marty

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Was Ponder an extremely accurate thrower ?

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Post #: 498

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 11:04:00 AM

TJSweens

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As long as he stayed to short passes like Nix.

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Post #: 499

RE: 2024 Draft - 3/19/2024 11:17:16 AM

Phil Riewer

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